Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

Hertford Quad-art update, all four chassis built and it runs well, no derailments going across the station throat or around the main line. I need to whizz it into the fuddle yards just to ensure all is OK. Trouble is In have too many trains on the layout at the moment and the yards are full. I know the solution, take off them extra trains.

 

It looks like it is running slight too high but that is easy to correct. Not so easy is the super glued couplings on the outer bogies. Last night when I made the bogies I positioned the coupling using the end second coach bogie center. When I made the Brake chassis I noticed the coupling wasn't poking out as far as it was the other end of the set. Rechecked the drawings, the bogie positions on articulated 52 ft coaches is further in (about 1ft 3 ins or 5mm in 1/76th scale). I have drilled a new hole in the Brake coach for testing. I have to work out how the move the couplings and then reposition the bogies.

 

Not all doom and gloom there is a new Skating Polly Video....read the lyrics, it is about doom and gloom.

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 05/09/2019 at 00:43, Clive Mortimore said:

Finding there is one door or window that is in the "wrong " place and it needs moving is part of the fun in cutting and shutting. The end result in having something you want and you done it yourself is rewarding, plus if it was fun doing it even better.

Thanks to Clive for pointing me in the direction of drawings of the D1754 and D1755.

I've got a decent picture of the corridor side of D1755, the first batch of that type, in one of the Jenkinson books. He said it was the only clear picture he knew of one of these. 

Checking out the drawing in another of his books the layout of the panelling and windows don't match up. Fortunately the picture shows the same arrangement at each end as the old Mainline/Replica/Bachmann types which will save me a bit of work. The left hand part of the donor body is identical up to the centre line, as are the ducket plus right hand half of the guards doors. That leaves me just 91mm on that side to fabricate from bits in the oddments box.

[Clive Mortimore]

The Hertford Quad-art continues. Here are some photos of the progress, the ends do not yet fully match the roofs, and the bodies are only plonked on the chassis. The brake body is still in two halves. Hopefully it gives an idea of what the finished article may look like.

 

The set. One set lasted until 1963, I know the number of the carriages but not the set number.

 

The Brake Second, when built there were still three classes of passenger on the GER lines, so this was Brake Second when new, later down rated to Brake Third in 1937, then in 1956 became Brake Second again.

 

The Composite, this when built was a First and Second class composite, the two second class compartments are on the right. Like the brake the second class was down rated to third class, then reclassed as second in the 1950s. The First class was also down rated to Thrid during the war, after the war the First class compartments were again uprated, the dates I have conflict each other but by my modelling period they would have been First class again.

 

 

The intermediate Second. This was originally third class. The compartments are smaller than on the end second but not as small on a GNR Quad-art or a GER Quint-art. 

 

 

The end Second.

 

 

The bogies are from my spares box, the end ones being ABS kits which are very detailed, the inner ones are very old BSL models and not so detailed. Hopefully when all is painted and running the lack of detail on the middle bogies will not show too much. If it does then I will need to renew all the bogies to the same standard.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

Here are some shots from the running trials tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

So..... you gonna paint it in BR blue or NSE livery?...

[Clive Mortimore]

3 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

So..... you gonna paint it in BR blue or NSE livery?...

Don't be daft, it will be in WAGN livery.

[Satan's Goldfish]

1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Don't be daft, it will be in WAGN livery.

 

Good call! My other thought was jaffa cake but I was never a fan of that.

[Clive Mortimore]

16 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

Good call! My other thought was jaffa cake but I was never a fan of that.

 

Yummy Jaffa Cakes............................to be found in the biscuit isle of your favorite supermarket.

[Andrew P]

I used to see a lot of Jaffa Cake livery coaches with NO ENGINES running on the Portsmouth - London line at one time. I don't think the Livery lasted very long as they all got eaten up, haha.

[richard i]

10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Here are some shots from the running trials tonight.

 

 

 

 

 

Ooooow teak livery. Repaint the red one to match. Best livery out there.

richard

[Satan's Goldfish]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

Yummy Jaffa Cakes............................to be found in the biscuit isle of your favorite supermarket.

 

You'll need to bring your 309 down here soon....

[Clive Mortimore]

43 minutes ago, richard i said:

Ooooow teak livery. Repaint the red one to match. Best livery out there.

richard

Richard

 

Natural wood livery is not to my liking, they will be that nice Midland Railway Crimson Lake, wot BR called maroon.

[31A]

On 05/09/2019 at 23:17, Clive Mortimore said:

 

When I made the Brake chassis I noticed the coupling wasn't poking out as far as it was the other end of the set. Rechecked the drawings, the bogie positions on articulated 52 ft coaches is further in (about 1ft 3 ins or 5mm in 1/76th scale). 

 

 

Thank you Clive, that's the kind of comment that once read can't be unread!

[John Tomlinson]

The Quad Arts is looking very well.

 

I'd never realised how short the intermediate coaches are, presumably around 40' if not a bit less, all goes to show what you learn from models.

 

John.

[Clive Mortimore]

I've been a finking about the diesel sidings, they ain't quite right in my mind. I have two code 75 points, one Peco point motor, some Seep point motors, a few spare GM500 relays and some spare track. It would improve the visual aspect of the depot, I never liked the idea of a dead end refueling point. If I move the fuel point down a bit then I can fit the points in. Oddly this will give me one more loco space as well.  

 

 

 

And with some N-gins.

 

 

[Andrew P]

Much better old man, but can you not go through the bridge as well to extend further?

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Much better old man, but can you not go through the bridge as well to extend further?

That is as far as I want to go.

 

It is supposed to be just a stabling point like there was at Kings Cross, Liverpool Street and Paddington. When your train departed you were able to get the numbers of the locos you could see but the numbers were not visible. Once under the bridge it was time to settle down to read the latest edition of Modern Railways.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

The Quad Arts is looking very well.

 

I'd never realised how short the intermediate coaches are, presumably around 40' if not a bit less, all goes to show what you learn from models.

 

John.

Hi John

 

They are 43 ft 5 inches over the body.

[jazzer]

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

The Quad Arts is looking very well.

 

I'd never realised how short the intermediate coaches are, presumably around 40' if not a bit less, all goes to show what you learn from models.

 

John.

Absolutely, but I can’t get my mind round the fact that the centre coaches were so much shorter that the rest. Logically one would imagine they were all the same length . I know there were certain clearance problems on the GN suburban line but I can’t imagine that was the reason . Can anyone explain ?

[Clive Mortimore]

On 04/09/2019 at 14:27, Sandhole said:

That is extremely wise, can't fault you!!!
The photograph......WOW!!!!! I've never seen a Fell with their mane plaitted before!! That is one hell of a lot of work there!!

 

Hi Chris

 

Found out a bit more on the horses. Cody the grey could be a Welsh Cob, we were told he came from Ireland but when Mrs M wet to reregister his microchip she found out he was first registered in Wales, and she thinks he looks like a Welsh Cob. Ferne the new pony is possibly a Fell or Dales Cob cross, again her past is not 100% clear, she trots like a travellers  pony with her front feet lifting very high, and when the dealer we got her from received her she had draft shoes on her front hoofs. Mrs M says at the price we got her, she must be a cross. She too has a strange microchip history, she has one but has never been registered. As for Lola the big horse she comes Romania, and oddly her microchip history is complete. Mrs M says she has the characteristics of the Romanian domestic horses but is taller than normal. Not many horses in Romania are microchipped so she must have been special to someone at some point in time. Of course she is special to Mrs M. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

11 minutes ago, jazzer said:

Absolutely, but I can’t get my mind round the fact that the centre coaches were so much shorter that the rest. Logically one would imagine they were all the same length . I know there were certain clearance problems on the GN suburban line but I can’t imagine that was the reason . Can anyone explain ?

Hi Jazzer,

 

It could well do with the fouling bar used with facing points. They were 50 feet in many places so the distance between the bogies had to be less so when raised it didn't go between the wheels not detecting the coach so the point could be changed with a train passing over it. Many DMUs were only 57 feet long for that reason as many branch lines were not track circuited and still had the 50 foot fouling bars not the more modern 60 foot ones.

 

[5BarVT]

14 minutes ago, jazzer said:

Absolutely, but I can’t get my mind round the fact that the centre coaches were so much shorter that the rest. Logically one would imagine they were all the same length . I know there were certain clearance problems on the GN suburban line but I can’t imagine that was the reason . 

Clearance on the inside of a curve depends (significantly) on bogie centres. Hotel curve (and possibly York Road too) was fairly tight so I imagine all bogie centres wouldn’t have been that different. Inner ends have to finish inside the bogie centre but outer ends can ‘overhang’ by quite a bit. I think that will explain quite a lot of the difference.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer,

 

It could well do with the fouling bar used with facing points. They were 50 feet in many places so the distance between the bogies had to be less so when raised it didn't go between the wheels not detecting the coach so the point could be changed with a train passing over it. Many DMUs were only 57 feet long for that reason as many branch lines were not track circuited and still had the 50 foot fouling bars not the more modern 60 foot ones.

 

And that’s another good reason.  Fancy the signal engineer thinking of the gauging issue and missing the signalling!

Paul.

[31A]

1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer,

 

It could well do with the fouling bar used with facing points. They were 50 feet in many places so the distance between the bogies had to be less so when raised it didn't go between the wheels not detecting the coach so the point could be changed with a train passing over it. Many DMUs were only 57 feet long for that reason as many branch lines were not track circuited and still had the 50 foot fouling bars not the more modern 60 foot ones.

 

 

I presumed (after thinking about it) that was the reason for the outer bogies of the articulated coaches being set further in from the coach ends than on normal underframes, as you pointed out earlier.   When you said that I thought "Oh b*****" as I hadn't realised that but you are of course quite right.  One of my "roundtuit" projects is an artic twin from two Hornby non gangwayed Gresley Thirds.  I didn't expect to have to move the outer bogies but now I will, so you have saved me from a faux pas but given me some more work to do!!  I also thought "Oh b***** times 2" when I thought of the steel panelled gangwayed twin I made last year (thinking I HAD made it to the drawings), but on checking those, the bogies on them were in the same position relative to the headstocks as the equivalent ordinary bogie coaches.

[Clive Mortimore]

4 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Clearance on the inside of a curve depends (significantly) on bogie centres. Hotel curve (and possibly York Road too) was fairly tight so I imagine all bogie centres wouldn’t have been that different. Inner ends have to finish inside the bogie centre but outer ends can ‘overhang’ by quite a bit. I think that will explain quite a lot of the difference.

Paul.

Hi Paul

 

That might have been a reason for the GNR Quad-arts being short, even shorter than the Hertford ones. The Hertford Quads were GER line sets used on what today would be called outer suburban services to Hertford, Bishop Stortford and even as far as Cambridge.