RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 7, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, 31A said: I presumed (after thinking about it) that was the reason for the outer bogies of the articulated coaches being set further in from the coach ends than on normal underframes, as you pointed out earlier. When you said that I thought "Oh b*****" as I hadn't realised that but you are of course quite right. One of my "roundtuit" projects is an artic twin from two Hornby non gangwayed Gresley Thirds. I didn't expect to have to move the outer bogies but now I will, so you have saved me from a faux pas but given me some more work to do!! I also thought "Oh b***** times 2" when I thought of the steel panelled gangwayed twin I made last year (thinking I HAD made it to the drawings), but on checking those, the bogies on them were in the same position relative to the headstocks as the equivalent ordinary bogie coaches. Hi Steve I thought then same but looking at the diagrams for twin-arts (and the Hertford Quads) all seem to have the outer bogies set 9 ft in from the headstocks. An ordinary bogie 51 ft coach has its bogies set at 8ft from the headstocks. Ah it makes me think I should be modelling GWR or bungy jumping or playing tiddly winks. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted September 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Paul That might have been a reason for the GNR Quad-arts being short, even shorter than the Hertford ones. The Hertford Quads were GER line sets used on what today would be called outer suburban services to Hertford, Bishop Stortford and even as far as Cambridge. Evening Clive, That’s me mixing up Hertford G*R with Hertford G*R. No excuse, since I claim to have a good knowledge of railway geography. ‘scuse my dodgy keyboard, E and N don’t work properly when beside G and R. Think it came from the same factory as yours. :-) Paul. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 7, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2019 The track has been cut and shaped. I have taken some photos but it is too late for me to start editing them tonight. I now need to work out what changes to the electrics I need to make and wire in the point motors. After I have cut the holes for the point motors. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2019 5 hours ago, jazzer said: Absolutely, but I can’t get my mind round the fact that the centre coaches were so much shorter that the rest. Logically one would imagine they were all the same length . I know there were certain clearance problems on the GN suburban line but I can’t imagine that was the reason . Can anyone explain ? It's probably to do with minimising centre throw by keeping the bogie centres more-or-less constant. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Steve I thought then same but looking at the diagrams for twin-arts (and the Hertford Quads) all seem to have the outer bogies set 9 ft in from the headstocks. An ordinary bogie 51 ft coach has its bogies set at 8ft from the headstocks. Ah it makes me think I should be modelling GWR or bungy jumping or playing tiddly winks. I checked my BS+CL twin-art last night..........whoooops it needs its bogies repositioning. I am now looking for my parachute and knitting needles. Apparently there is a world of other hobbies. Edited September 8, 2019 by Clive Mortimore 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: I checked my BS+CL twin-art last night..........whoooops it needs its bogies repositioning. I am now looking for my parachute and knitting needles. Apparently there is a world of other hobbies. So they do on this one, but it won't be happening! 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: . Apparently there is a world of other hobbies. And DCC...... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: I now need to work out what changes to the electrics I need to make and wire in the point motors. Surely you just have to add 2 wires...……………….. Ah.... Oops! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, newbryford said: Surely you just have to add 2 wires...……………….. Ah.... Oops! Hi Mick Oddly enough that is all the track needs two wires from control panel, then there are the three wires for the points, wires for the two frogs plus all the small wires from the control panel to the GM500 relay. I would say about the same number of wires and solder joints as required for DCC. I have found out what DCC really means. Mrs Dagworth posted on faceache that one of their cat's had knocked Andi's box of DCC components all over the floor and it looked like chaos. Destructive Cat Chaos. Edited September 8, 2019 by Clive Mortimore 5 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Steve I thought then same but looking at the diagrams for twin-arts (and the Hertford Quads) all seem to have the outer bogies set 9 ft in from the headstocks. An ordinary bogie 51 ft coach has its bogies set at 8ft from the headstocks. Ah it makes me think I should be modelling GWR or bungy jumping or playing tiddly winks. You'd be bored to tears with the GW. The locos all look the same, even have the same wheelbase, where's the fun in that? John. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said: You'd be bored to tears with the GW. The locos all look the same, even have the same wheelbase, where's the fun in that? John. Hi John But apparently they have cute panniers. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 And the coaches are all different. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) + Edited September 8, 2019 by westerner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, westerner said: And the coaches are all different. Hi Alan I know and have you seen the fun they are having on the New Colletts from Old thread. Can you get much in the way of RTR or non-expensive kits of GWR coaches in 7mm? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 To be honest I haven't bothered to look, as Blakeney is mainly a freight line. I might be interested in Daersted's B S 57 ft. Suburban. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 Photos from last nights temporary track renewal. I am in the process of putting in the wires. 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) I hate SEEP point motors, to undertake the improvement I needed two point motors I only have one Peco, so until I get another one I am using a SEEP. It was a right blighter to set up. Then when I put power to it, it went backwards not forwards. So I had to climb under the baseboard with a hot soldering iron to swap the wires over. The whole object of using Peco motors is if there is problem I lift the point and to check the motor out as I have fitted them directly to the point, so problems have been so few I cannot remember last time I lifted a point, hopefully it will be never. Now to wire up the track. Edit, I miss John Dutfield's being so handy. If I needed something I could always pop in between customers as I drove around Chelmsford. Edited September 8, 2019 by Clive Mortimore 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 07/09/2019 at 18:55, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Chris Found out a bit more on the horses. Cody the grey could be a Welsh Cob, we were told he came from Ireland but when Mrs M wet to reregister his microchip she found out he was first registered in Wales, and she thinks he looks like a Welsh Cob. Ferne the new pony is possibly a Fell or Dales Cob cross, again her past is not 100% clear, she trots like a travellers pony with her front feet lifting very high, and when the dealer we got her from received her she had draft shoes on her front hoofs. Mrs M says at the price we got her, she must be a cross. She too has a strange microchip history, she has one but has never been registered. As for Lola the big horse she comes Romania, and oddly her microchip history is complete. Mrs M says she has the characteristics of the Romanian domestic horses but is taller than normal. Not many horses in Romania are microchipped so she must have been special to someone at some point in time. Of course she is special to Mrs M. Thanks for that Clive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 Just finished doing my lap of honour, I wired it up correctly and it works lovely. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2019 What to do next, the Thompson second open, the Hastings unit, convert the railroad Black Five to a Cappotti version or build the Stanier 3 MT tank kit? The Hastings unit is not on the layout roster so might go to the back of the queue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 07/09/2019 at 19:04, Clive Mortimore said: It could well do with the fouling bar used with facing points. They were 50 feet in many places so the distance between the bogies had to be less so when raised it didn't go between the wheels not detecting the coach so the point could be changed with a train passing over it. The inner wheelbase rather than bogie centres was the dimension that determined the necessary length of the Fouling Bar or FPL Lock Bar. A standard 63'6" mk1 or mk2 vehicle has bogies at 46'6" centres so the inner wheels are 38' apart. A GWR 70' Dining Car on 9' bogies had an inner wheelbase of 44'6". The longest inner wheelbase I can remember during my BR days was a Flatrol which had 5' bogies at 57'6" centres so the inner wheels were 52' apart. On 07/09/2019 at 19:04, Clive Mortimore said: Many DMUs were only 57 feet long for that reason as many branch lines were not track circuited and still had the 50 foot fouling bars Stock length and bogie positioning was more to do with clearances on curves. Side throw increases as the bogie centres increase. End throw increases as bogies are moved further from the ends. It's a case of balancing between the options to get both the side and end throw the same. to overcome the end throw issue coaches like the Mk4 which has an inner wheelbase of about 44'6" have tapered ends. 2 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 G'Day Folks I started railway modelling in 1967, and I've never had a Point motor fail..............I've never owned a Point motor, but that's beside the Point.......... manna 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 6 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: The inner wheelbase rather than bogie centres was the dimension that determined the necessary length of the Fouling Bar or FPL Lock Bar. A standard 63'6" mk1 or mk2 vehicle has bogies at 46'6" centres so the inner wheels are 38' apart. A GWR 70' Dining Car on 9' bogies had an inner wheelbase of 44'6". The longest inner wheelbase I can remember during my BR days was a Flatrol which had 5' bogies at 57'6" centres so the inner wheels were 52' apart. Stock length and bogie positioning was more to do with clearances on curves. Side throw increases as the bogie centres increase. End throw increases as bogies are moved further from the ends. It's a case of balancing between the options to get both the side and end throw the same. to overcome the end throw issue coaches like the Mk4 which has an inner wheelbase of about 44'6" have tapered ends. I thought the mk4 had tapered ends because BR were looking at developing a tilting bogie for that body shell to create mk5 coaches for the WCML? (All long before privatisation of course!) The taper was needed to keep it within gauge profile when leaning. Mk3 coaches are virtually the same length as mk4 but without the tapering... I may be talking out my 4r5e or course and remembering something different... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rilksy Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, manna said: G'Day Folks I started railway modelling in 1967, and I've never had a Point motor fail..............I've never owned a Point motor, but that's beside the Point.......... manna 'He's got a point there' Edited September 9, 2019 by rilksy Smelling pistake! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 Clive I know that you are only intending to have scenery up to the bridges but I was wondering if you extended the fuelling point headshunt a little way beyond the far side of the bridge if you would give yourself the opportunity to put two locos between point and bridge thereby being able to reverse the order in which they leave the headshunt. Sorry if my description is not too good but I hope you'll understand what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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