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Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!


Clive Mortimore
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16 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have been thinking about my train set, now it is a fictitious place so it cannot be accurate. I can strive for things to be as accurate as possible but I have given up on that and feel that "visually compatible" is my now preferred route than 100% historical accuracy. So if a steam loco and the types of carriages it is pulling were withdrawn before a diesel multiple unit was introduced but the if liveries carried are those that are contemporary with each other then to me that is fine.

I've said before Clive, that even minus scenery Sheffield Exchange looks more like a real railway than many layouts I've seen.  The track layout has been based on research and it shows.

Being 100% accurate in operation can quickly become anally-retentive.  Instead of "accurate for 1958" it becomes "in accordance with the 1958 summer timetable" and then some self-appointed expert will proudly point out that the third coach in the summer Saturdays only train wouldn't have been still in service or that the DMU was only scheduled on Tuesdays.

Back when I had a layout to play trains on, I tended to prefer to have a set time period of 5-10 years and yes, some locos might have only appeared at the beginning or the end of the period, but if during operation, they didn't appear together, I could maintain the illusion in my head.  For instance, Deltics and Class 58s couldn't appear together, but on the real railway they were actually separated by less than two years.

Enjoy your railway, it's yours and if they're running late, derail(!) or God-forbid, have the wrong the engine on the front, no-one gets hurt.

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So what if the time line is a bit flexible. I`m doing a 116 built from replica suburban coaches, which have the wrong body profile, but lima got the one the did wrong as well. I`m also building a 123 (and bits for a 124) but they disappeared before some of the models I am building were around. Why, because I like the look, and it add variety. 

 

As long as what you run looks right together, that`s what matters.

 

If you want to wind up those who like to say thats wrong, put a 8f on a short rake of HAA hoppers.

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8 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

So what if the time line is a bit flexible. I`m doing a 116 built from replica suburban coaches, which have the wrong body profile, but lima got the one the did wrong as well. I`m also building a 123 (and bits for a 124) but they disappeared before some of the models I am building were around. Why, because I like the look, and it add variety. 

 

As long as what you run looks right together, that`s what matters.

 

If you want to wind up those who like to say thats wrong, put a 8f on a short rake of HAA hoppers.

Hi Cheesy

 

I have a photo in a book of a J27 shunting Hop ABs as they were called then.

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have been thinking about my train set, now it is a fictitious place so it cannot be accurate. I can strive for things to be as accurate as possible but I have given up on that and feel that "visually compatible" is my now preferred route than 100% historical accuracy. So if a steam loco and the types of carriages it is pulling were withdrawn before a diesel multiple unit was introduced but the if liveries carried are those that are contemporary with each other then to me that is fine.

As it is ficticious, surely it can't be inaccurate either. By definition it didn't exist in historical reality, so no comparison exists to create something to judge by.

 

You can say that it is accurate within the parameters you have created to define something you regard as a plausible story line for the project, but that is all. As it happens, without a word of text, the pictures you've posted on this thread say very clearly to me that we're talking early - mid '60's in the north of England, Eastern Region rather than North Eastern or London Midland looking at the motive power, but not too far from either of these. So Sheffield it would probably be.

 

I'm afraid I really don't buy into this idea that to be plausible a model railway MUST portray a real location. Practically it's impossible for 99.9% of us to achieve this, so thanks to the 0.1% presumably the rest of us should just clear off and find another hobby! And anyway, if we want two examples of top quality layouts that make clear the area in which they are situated without being a specific place, we need look no further than Wibdenshaw (West Riding c.1970) and Hornsey Broadway (North London early '70's), both of which I'd regard as right at the top of the tree in our hobby.

 

As someone said earlier, if folk wish to beat themselves up by sticking to a precise date for their layout, then good luck - I hope you enjoy the pain and torment! For most of us a period is a better bet, and we might even go for holding several sets of stock to vary periods consistently, as Robert Carroll does on "Marton Central". I don't know Mr. Carroll, but anyone reading his informed posts wouldn't doubt for a moment that he is very serious about the hobby.

 

John.

 

 

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I’m going down the visually compatible route with my Swindon 126 build . Following Signaller 69s and your inspiration I’ve set off on my build using cut and shut on Trix Mk1s as basis .  As I’m getting into it I’ve gone from fear of making a mess to excitement when something works! It has to be said this is my first model railway build although I’ve been running them for 50 years!  Had a little set back because some of the Trix coaches I’d bought  had their sides glued to chassis and ends instead of just being screwed together . However I have now got the basic shape of the DMS . Next stage is to drill out the end windows and set about the sides with filler . It will run on a Lima 117 chassis that I’ve already hacked the internal bracing off . The whole thing is very enjoyable . I’m just looking for something that looks ok , with critical items like window spacing correct , not necessarily 100% accurate under frame . It should be recognisable as a 126 Ayrshire Unit . Don’t know what to do with roof . Go with existing Trix mouldings , probably ones from the CK or file off the ventilators and attach new ones . Will it be visually ok if I leave as is? 

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52 minutes ago, Legend said:

I’m going down the visually compatible route with my Swindon 126 build . Following Signaller 69s and your inspiration I’ve set off on my build using cut and shut on Trix Mk1s as basis .  As I’m getting into it I’ve gone from fear of making a mess to excitement when something works! It has to be said this is my first model railway build although I’ve been running them for 50 years!  Had a little set back because some of the Trix coaches I’d bought  had their sides glued to chassis and ends instead of just being screwed together . However I have now got the basic shape of the DMS . Next stage is to drill out the end windows and set about the sides with filler . It will run on a Lima 117 chassis that I’ve already hacked the internal bracing off . The whole thing is very enjoyable . I’m just looking for something that looks ok , with critical items like window spacing correct , not necessarily 100% accurate under frame . It should be recognisable as a 126 Ayrshire Unit . Don’t know what to do with roof . Go with existing Trix mouldings , probably ones from the CK or file off the ventilators and attach new ones . Will it be visually ok if I leave as is? 

Assuming that you are indeed modelling in 00, fit 14mm wheels to the Trix bogies and place a thin washer (Meccano is ideal) between the bogies and bodies. That will bring them up to just about the right height. The narrow width and short length are far less noticeable.

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14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Assuming that you are indeed modelling in 00, fit 14mm wheels to the Trix bogies and place a thin washer (Meccano is ideal) between the bogies and bodies. That will bring them up to just about the right height. The narrow width and short length are far less noticeable.


Ahh thanks St Enodoc but actually I’m only using the Trix coaches sides ends and Rooves . The reason for using them is that they are that little bit shorter so you can get the correct layout of the DMS in 4mm . The whole thing is placed on top of a Lima 117 chassis . I am aware , from Signaller 69s  thread that this rides a little high , but I’m a little reluctant to shorten it even though he has demonstrated how to do it on his thread .  I really don’t want to mess up a rtr chassis .

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1 hour ago, Legend said:

I’m going down the visually compatible route with my Swindon 126 build . Following Signaller 69s and your inspiration I’ve set off on my build using cut and shut on Trix Mk1s as basis .  As I’m getting into it I’ve gone from fear of making a mess to excitement when something works! It has to be said this is my first model railway build although I’ve been running them for 50 years!  Had a little set back because some of the Trix coaches I’d bought  had their sides glued to chassis and ends instead of just being screwed together . However I have now got the basic shape of the DMS . Next stage is to drill out the end windows and set about the sides with filler . It will run on a Lima 117 chassis that I’ve already hacked the internal bracing off . The whole thing is very enjoyable . I’m just looking for something that looks ok , with critical items like window spacing correct , not necessarily 100% accurate under frame . It should be recognisable as a 126 Ayrshire Unit . Don’t know what to do with roof . Go with existing Trix mouldings , probably ones from the CK or file off the ventilators and attach new ones . Will it be visually ok if I leave as is? 

Hi Legend,

 

I go about things in a very similar way, I've just finished building a Brighton Belle set that has been cut and shut from the old Hornby Pullman cars and what a lot of fun it was too.

 

Anomalies to annoy the rivet counter's are listed below:

  1. Car length is 11mm too short.
  2. Certain window spacing's are incorrect.
  3. Vestibule windows are rectangular instead of oval.
  4. Incorrect pattern bogies.
  5. Top light ventilators have four panes instead of three.
  6. Brush painted.
  7. Simplified lining because I was going completely cross eyed applying it all.
  8. Didn't come from China in a fancy presentation box.
  9. London to Brighton in four minutes now takes half a second longer because it is too short.
  10. All sorts of other minor details I don't give a monkeys for !!!

DSCF1068.JPG.78e8f6abbb4f16774cc7520002fca63f.JPG

 

 

Gibbo.

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3 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I've said before Clive, that even minus scenery Sheffield Exchange looks more like a real railway than many layouts I've seen.  The track layout has been based on research and it shows.

 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but personally I think the track layout is key. The reason Cyril Freezers “Minories” is such a brilliant template is because it is inspired by a real location (Liverpool St Metropolitan as it used to be) . For some reason, it seems to me that layouts where the builder just sits down with a sheet of plain paper and base the plan on whatever fits never seem to quite look the part to my eye even though the modelling standards may be quite brilliant . On the other hand I can still remember layouts from exhibitions I went to at 9or 10 years old that stuck in my mind because they had this indefinable thing we call atmosphere.

Ultimately , few if any of us have either the skill, time or space to build an 100% accurate model so we can only ever try our best to make a reasonable representation, but that is nature of the hobby.  

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2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Legend,

 

I go about things in a very similar way, I've just finished building a Brighton Belle set that has been cut and shut from the old Hornby Pullman cars and what a lot of fun it was too.

 

Anomalies to annoy the rivet counter's are listed below:

  1. Car length is 11mm too short.
  2. Certain window spacing's are incorrect.
  3. Vestibule windows are rectangular instead of oval.
  4. Incorrect pattern bogies.
  5. Top light ventilators have four panes instead of three.
  6. Brush painted.
  7. Simplified lining because I was going completely cross eyed applying it all.
  8. Didn't come from China in a fancy presentation box.
  9. London to Brighton in four minutes now takes half a second longer because it is too short.
  10. All sorts of other minor details I don't give a monkeys for !!!

DSCF1068.JPG.78e8f6abbb4f16774cc7520002fca63f.JPG

 

 

Gibbo.


Gibbo , if you hadn’t have listed any of these discrepancies I would never have known . Sometimes too much information is bad, you are just better not knowing . Your Brighton Belle looks superb , you’ve probably saved a fortune and have the satisfaction of knowing you built it .  I’m pretty much trying to achieve that with my 126 . We will see

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44 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

Although its each to their own with regards to rivet counting and the like its the devilment in me that loves winding them up.


I don’t think any of the layouts on here are clockwork though :unsure:

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8 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

IIRC there is a photo in the MGR book of a 8f on some HOP AB.

 

That will wind someone up if you did it on a model lol.

Back in the days when you created a class 27 (in 00) from a Lima 33, one of the boys in the club decided to do his one in two-tone green.  On numerous occasions at shows you could hear the stage whisper going, "hey never did one like that"; my friend would then produce a book with a photo of the real one.  The response - "that photo has been doctored!"

 

Have you seen the photo of the 9F on new tankers of the type that later became TTA/TTV?

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13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have been thinking about my train set, now it is a fictitious place so it cannot be accurate. I can strive for things to be as accurate as possible but I have given up on that and feel that "visually compatible" is my now preferred route than 100% historical accuracy. So if a steam loco and the types of carriages it is pulling were withdrawn before a diesel multiple unit was introduced but the if liveries carried are those that are contemporary with each other then to me that is fine.

 

In real life there's a certain blurring anyway: "I haven't seen one of those recently" "No - they were withdrawn last year"

 

Perhaps it's best to say you're modelling a period rather than the 3rd Saturday in March 1961..

 

For what it's worth , my main period with the layout is 1985-90. There are 153s, there will be a Cravens - I'm aware they didn't overlap, but it was a near-miss and a Cravens would have overlapped - just - with some types of Sprinter. The point is to represent the few years when Modernisation Plan units were going out and Sprinters coming in. And the 128 will be in plain blue , because I can do that whereas Post Office red would be awkward - although the unit was in red by 1988. It's an impression of an era, and the stock seen in that era

 

If there are diesels - but nothing in blue - that implies a restricted time period anyway (1958-64)

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There will always be a blurring of the time and space continuum, although I admire modellers who can model an exact period in time, and even a certain supermodeller hereabouts has a slight flexing of the envelope.

My own personal time frame is August 68 to early 1973, and that is the era I've always modelled, but even so, there's an ex LMS jackshaft shunter in the roster, Bulleids 11001 the LMS boxcab shunter in the workshops and the Rails gas turbine in the wings.

No point getting hung up about it and making a rod for your own back, as we say around these parts, enjoy and have fun.

 

Mike.

 

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8 hours ago, Alex TM said:

Perhaps we should remedy that .......

I still have in the loft my old Hornby O gauge goods clockwork goods set my parents bought me sometime during the last century.I cant remember exactly when but the price is still on the box  - 59shillings and 6 pence. 
 

I could start a topic on but it would be pretty short : Post 1 put the track together. Post 2 Wind it up. Post 3 take the brake off and let it go . The End. 


What a simple hobby it used to be:)

 

 

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22 minutes ago, jazzer said:

I still have in the loft my old Hornby O gauge goods clockwork goods set my parents bought me sometime during the last century.I cant remember exactly when but the price is still on the box  - 59shillings and 6 pence. 
 

I could start a topic on but it would be pretty short : Post 1 put the track together. Post 2 Wind it up. Post 3 take the brake off and let it go . The End. 


What a simple hobby it used to be:)

 

 

And there weren't even the celebrated two wires!

 

John.

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