Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

Whoops I forgot I am not allowed to have fun playing with my train set.

 

I should be partaking in a past time that is interesting, fulfilling, entertaining, skilful and satisfying. Even constructive, and worthwhile.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/?p=1761333

[Clive Mortimore]

Last night I started to make the signals for Sheffield Exchange, may be some photos later. While making them and thinking about the point rodding my mind wandered to what would be on the shelf in the signal box? It is a terminus station so how many block instruments would it have?

 

The lever frame and other bits and bobs are self-explanatory.

 

Thanks for reading this even if you are as clueless as me.

 

As I write this I am thinking about the signalman, as he is next to the station would the box be provided with a loo or would he nip to the gents? Would he have a sink in his box?  Would a box this size of box have only one man in it or at busy times would there be two?

 

And lastly when the lampman was doing his bits with the signal lamps, what happened if he was up the ladder when a train was due? I am considering a cameo of a lampman tending to his lamps.

[Andrew P]

Hi Clive, I'm looking forward to the pics mate.

[flyingsignalman]

Last night I started to make the signals for Sheffield Exchange, may be some photos later. While making them and thinking about the point rodding my mind wandered to what would be on the shelf in the signal box? It is a terminus station so how many block instruments would it have?

 

The lever frame and other bits and bobs are self-explanatory.

 

Thanks for reading this even if you are as clueless as me.

 

As I write this I am thinking about the signalman, as he is next to the station would the box be provided with a loo or would he nip to the gents? Would he have a sink in his box? Would a box this size of box have only one man in it or at busy times would there be two?

 

And lastly when the lampman was doing his bits with the signal lamps, what happened if he was up the ladder when a train was due? I am considering a cameo of a lampman tending to his lamps.

If the block instrument indicated both lines then only one would be needed, the block shelf may be only long enough to accomodate it along with a couple of other indicators.

If the box had running water, then a sink would be provided, if not an enamel basin on a stand. A cooker, train register desk, a stool and maybe a wooden chair would also be provided.

I think a toilet would be provided as the service will, hopefully, be busy.

I also think the box would be single manned. Hooton North Junction was a single manned box and it had 90 levers.

When I was aware the Lampman was working on my signals I tried not to clear or put them back but if I had to I would do it as slowly as possible to prevent him being injured.

Edited February 8, 2015 by flyingsignalman

[Clive Mortimore]

If the block instrument indicated both lines then only one would be needed, the block shelf may be only long enough to accomodate it along with a couple of other indicators.

If the box had running water, then a sink would be provided, if not an enamel basin on a stand. A cooker, train register desk, a stool and maybe a wooden chair would also be provided.

I think a toilet would be provided as the service will, hopefully, be busy.

I also think the box would be single manned. Hooton North Junction was a single manned box and it had 90 levers.

When I was aware the Lampman was working on my signals I tried not to clear or put them back but if I had to I would do it as slowly as possible to prevent him being injured.

Hi Keith

 

Thank you very much.

[Clive Mortimore]

 

The above is a reference to the signals I have started.  They are in a very raw state but they have helped with getting the feel I want to achieve.

 

Lat us start with number one. It shares the gantry with 2,3,4,5,6 and the post of number 8. Number 8 was removed when the siding was lifted.

 

The gantry is made from one and a half Ratio ones, very much bodged last night. In the foreground is the only shot of number 24 the disc at the loco siding.

 

Next is number 7 the starter. The post carries the distant signal for Sheffield Station Junction box. This is sited in front of the tunnel, so I made a pair of sighting boards to aid the drivers vision. The Ratio model would have been too tall so taking dimensions from L.G. Warburton's "LMS Signals" book I shortened the post, this involve removing some of the top of the wide section. This was drilled out to take a shorter thinner part. The post for the sighting boards is also a shorter Ratio post.

 

 

Thats the down signals.

[Clive Mortimore]

Now the Up signals

 

The distant and outer home are the wrong side of the tunnel so I will not be modelling them, but their levers will be in the box.

 

Because of the bridge that is betwen the tunnel and the inner homes the vision of these signals when exiting the tunnel will not be good, I have modelled them as restricted height. Here are numbers 26,27 and 28.

 

The view the driver has when he exits the tunnel.

 

All shunting and loco moves take place on the down line, keeping the up line free. All the moves are regulated by a 4 high stack of ground signals, this being a LMS practice, before the station closed the ER district signal enginer had reduced it to one as was LNER (BR-ER) practice. Here are signals 20, 21, 22 and 23.

 

Here it is face on. I have no idea how I am going to get this to work.

 

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

I also made a start on the point rodding. I am going to work from the box to each point. I must be mad because I want the right rod to be leaving the box in the right position in relation to the frame in the box. In the photos there is a piece of paper with lines drawn on it they represent the leaver positions in the box. The ones marked with red are point and lock leavers.

 

I hope you can see that the first three cranks have been lined up with the leavers. The rollers without rods are the ones that once carried the rodding to the point that lead to the now lifted siding.

 

The box and the rodding is quite a way from the track, owing to the old siding. To be able to gauge where the box should be I placed some track down. It is a loteaseier doing this way than tryiong to measure things.

 

And as I leave you this evening this is the view that a driver sees when he departs Sheffield Exchange.

 

[Dagworth]

Oooo blimey, I'm going to have to get my glasses out to operate this, real signals

 

Very nice Clive but is no24 dummy on the wrong side of the track in the photo?

 

A

[Clive Mortimore]

Cheers Badge

 

Only one mistake, spotted so far.

[richard i]

It is coming along Clive. Can i say having rodded my layout, you are doing it the right way around, fix it then paint it, it is an absolute swear the other way around. Also i pity you all that rodding it drove Andy and I nearly insane. Think ballasting but worse.

[flyingsignalman]

I think, that due to its height, the 4-stack ground discs would be in the cess rather than the six foot.

[Clive Mortimore]

I think, that due to its height, the 4-stack ground discs would be in the cess rather than the six foot.

Thanks again Keith.

[Andrew P]

sheffield ex sig.png

 

The above is a reference to the signals I have started.  They are in a very raw state but they have helped with getting the feel I want to achieve.

 

Lat us start with number one. It shares the gantry with 2,3,4,5,6 and the post of number 8. Number 8 was removed when the siding was lifted.

014a.jpg

 

The gantry is made from one and a half Ratio ones, very much bodged last night. In the foreground is the only shot of number 24 the disc at the loco siding.

016a.jpg

 

Next is number 7 the starter. The post carries the distant signal for Sheffield Station Junction box. This is sited in front of the tunnel, so I made a pair of sighting boards to aid the drivers vision. The Ratio model would have been too tall so taking dimensions from L.G. Warburton's "LMS Signals" book I shortened the post, this involve removing some of the top of the wide section. This was drilled out to take a shorter thinner part. The post for the sighting boards is also a shorter Ratio post.

 

011a.jpg

 

Thats the down signals.

Fantastic work Clive, BUT the BLUE THING in pic 1 is worrying me somewhat, hahah

 

Well done mate, nice work so far.

[Clive Mortimore]

Gotta have a blue engine, look at all the ones you have

Edited February 9, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[Joseph_Pestell]

I like signal gantries although much harder to make dolls operate than signals on posts. But is a gantry justified there (other than under Rule 1)?

[TheSignalEngineer]

I like signal gantries although much harder to make dolls operate than signals on posts. But is a gantry justified there (other than under Rule 1)?

Prototype in a similar situaton at Llandudno Station

 

 

 

Agree with Keith about the 4-stack dummy. Won't fit in the six-foot, and much safer to maintain in the cess.

 

Not sure about the sighting boards. I have seen it done as two posts but not in that configuration, but more commonly they were fixed on two straps from the main post. We had some discussion about it here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80129-walton-on-the-hill-27e-liverpool-em-gauge/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1331553.

Alternatively if it was close to the tunnel wall, a white squiare might have been painted on the brickwork.

 

Eric

[The Stationmaster]

Prototype in a similar situaton at Llandudno Station

 

102_1963 Llandudno 002 p.jpg

 

 

Agree with Keith about the 4-stack dummy. Won't fit in the six-foot, and much safer to maintain in the cess.

 

Not sure about the sighting boards. I have seen it done as two posts but not in that configuration, but more commonly they were fixed on two straps from the main post. We had some discussion about it here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80129-walton-on-the-hill-27e-liverpool-em-gauge/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1331553.

Alternatively if it was close to the tunnel wall, a white squiare might have been painted on the brickwork.

 

Eric

Except the span of the Llandudno example was not as great as the way Clive has done it - I think it might have looked better if the leg nearer the edge of the baseboard was at the foot of the platform but that is more of a matter of personal taste rather than anything else.

 

(Nice pic too SE - I went to Llandudno c.1992/3 specifically to photo the gantry although it had lost some arms by then I think;  but not as bad as going to Dunblane specifically to get a sky arm on a lattice post only to find the top bit had been chopped off and Stirling was still worthwhile at that time).

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looking again at the Pratt Truss (aka 'N' Truss) arrangement, there should be an equal number of single struts working from each leg, 'N' on the left facing the gantry. At the centre the number of  'X' sections depended on whether there are an odd or even number of sections overall, occasionally on a short gantry with few arms there wouldn't be an 'X' on an even section gantry. The ends would have up to four sections on the overhang, the 'N' being at the right side facing. At complex locations a heavier duty version was used.

[Clive Mortimore]

Prototype in a similar situaton at Llandudno Station

 

102_1963 Llandudno 002 p.jpg

 

 

Agree with Keith about the 4-stack dummy. Won't fit in the six-foot, and much safer to maintain in the cess.

 

Not sure about the sighting boards. I have seen it done as two posts but not in that configuration, but more commonly they were fixed on two straps from the main post. We had some discussion about it here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80129-walton-on-the-hill-27e-liverpool-em-gauge/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1331553.

Alternatively if it was close to the tunnel wall, a white squiare might have been painted on the brickwork.

 

Eric

Hi Eric

 

The stack of four will be placed in the cess as suggested, thanks.

 

The sight screen comes from a drawing in L.G. Warbuton's "LMS Signals" book, and is based on LMS drawing MD41044. The drawing shows the arrangement I have modelled and the arrangement in the photo your link took me to http://www.flickr.com/photos/martin_addison/4859465983/  In the Warburton book is a photo of the twin post as I have modelled, all be it a distant signal only. The same drawings and photo appear in LMS Journal number 4. In the article Warburton suggest that both arrangements were to reduce problems caused by strong winds to the signal post. Painting the wall behind the signal and screens fixed to the post were more common, I just wanted to model something not so common.

 

The gantry has an equal number of "N" s each end and three "X"s in the middle as it is an odd number between the uprights. In another edition of the LMS Journal there is a photo of a Pratt Trust gantry that spans four running lines, this was the inspiration for making the Ratio one longer.

 

Except the span of the Llandudno example was not as great as the way Clive has done it - I think it might have looked better if the leg nearer the edge of the baseboard was at the foot of the platform but that is more of a matter of personal taste rather than anything else.

 

(Nice pic too SE - I went to Llandudno c.1992/3 specifically to photo the gantry although it had lost some arms by then I think;  but not as bad as going to Dunblane specifically to get a sky arm on a lattice post only to find the top bit had been chopped off and Stirling was still worthwhile at that time).

Hi Mike

 

I first used the Ratio gantry as it came. I had a slight problem with it, the longest train I can fit in the station is 4 57ft coaches with a Brush 2 or class 4 2-6-0 either end. I found that there was just enough clearance for the upright if the gantry was to be in front of the loco about to depart or if moved back the loco cab was past the signal. Niether looked good in my mind so in extending the gantry as in my bodge I have a better looking situation than the claerance issue and the locos are behind the signal.

 

 

I like signal gantries although much harder to make dolls operate than signals on posts. But is a gantry justified there (other than under Rule 1)?

Hi Joseph

 

Several arrangements of signals were considered, the gantry won as it would look more impressive. That was to start with but I think the problem of 2 class 31s and 4 coaches between the signals and buffers would still be present so the gantry wins again. Plus were is the fun if not trying to get the signals on a gantry to work.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[TheSignalEngineer]

Clive, I had it in my mind that the two post drawing as you have modelled existed. The only one I remember seeing in the flesh was the one I linked, which i think was done like that because of a clearance issue. The Pratt truss did indeed come in a large variety of arrangements to suit different track layouts and the number of dolls. Some on the LNW lines were truly massive by comparison to the standard LMS pattern.

[beast66606]

An LMS signal with twin sighting boards - Hoylake down starter with West Kirby distant below

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Eric and Dave

 

It seems the LMS had a few variations on the theme of sighting boards. I cannot recall seeing retangular ones before. The only ones I am aware of are the ones with the fancy curve that follows the arc of the signal.

 

If anyone else has information or comments regarding sighting boards or Pratt Trust Gantries please do join in as I hope other people are learning as much as I am.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have been working on the point rodding the last couple of nights. I am sure Wills could have made it a little easier to assemble. I will endeavour to take some photos when finished.

 

Working a wee bit ahead of myself I purchased a couple of Ratio signal box interior kits, having worked out that their lever frame was only 20 levers and I need 30. The lever spacing is too wide apart for an L&YR frame, so I will have to make my own frame but still use the very nice Ratio levers. There are some wonderful features in this kit, the instrument shelf and its contents are very good, even down to the two bells being different sizes as they would be so that the signalman knows which box either side is communicating with him by the tone of the bells.

 

My steam locomotive fleet for this layout is growing. I went into John Dutfield's Model Railways shop today to buy the above kits and an Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 if there was one in stock. There wasn't so I then considered a K1. For almost the same price as a new K1 were a Crab and K3. So I have come home with pair locos that typify both the L&YR and the GNR.

 

Another development is in the station design, gone are the plans for one based on the LTSR stations, mainly because they have very flat roofs. I have chosen a similar design to those found on the Wirral line to West Kirby, with their concrete beams above the roof line. There were other examples of this style of building were found in other parts of the LMS. The excuse for a new building was the proposed electrification of the suburban lines served by Sheffield Exchange required a larger and more modern building than the older building at the end of the platforms. Like many late 1930s ideas the war put an end to the plans. I will have the rear wall of the old building towering above the buffer stops as part of the back scene, I was wondering what I could put along that face.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Regarding the station buildings Clive, I'd go for a very down-at-heel look. Sheffield was very badly bombed in December 1940, so maybe Sheffield Exchange wouldn't have been on the top of BRs rebuilding list.

 

Get inspiration from Manchester Victoria and Bradford Exchange.

 

The gloomy station would make a nice contrast to sparkling new DMUs and Class 31s.