BEIJIAO - a large Chinese HO exhibition layout set in the 21st century

[TEAMYAKIMA]

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by TEAMYAKIMA

[TEAMYAKIMA]

For the casual viewer of this thread who may not know what that is - it's a destination board that goes on the side of every passenger train and the extra significance is that this route was the world's last long distance steam hauled passenger train JININGNAN to TONGLIAO via DABAN.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by TEAMYAKIMA

[john new]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

For the casual viewer of this thread who may not know what that is - it's a destination board that goes on the side of every passenger train and the extra significance is that this route was the world's last long distance steam hauled passenger train JININGNAN TONGLIAO via DABAN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like it has worked through from London with a rake of Network Southeast coaches. A precursor to the current container train - Victoria - JININGNAN - TONGLIAO via DABAN.

[njee20]

Ha, I was literally going to post “that’s where the intercity mk1s went then”. Spookily similar colour scheme!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

4 hours ago, njee20 said:

Ha, I was literally going to post “that’s where the intercity mk1s went then”. Spookily similar colour scheme!

Yes, I agree. I think they are 25B coaches which formed the train in the later years. My steam passenger on the layout is comprised of type 22 coaches in green livery which typifies the earlier years. 

 

I would like to replace it with 25B coaches in NSE livery - mainly as a talking point at shows - but firstly the 25B coaches have never been released in that livery and if they had it would cost me about £500 for a rake of 10 so maybe I secretly pleased that they're not been done yet. 

 

[St Enodoc]

12 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Yes, I agree. I think they are 25B coaches which formed the train in the later years. My steam passenger on the layout is comprised of type 22 coaches in green livery which typifies the earlier years. 

 

I would like to replace it with 25B coaches in NSE livery - mainly as a talking point at shows - but firstly the 25B coaches have never been released in that livery and if they had it would cost me about £500 for a rake of 10 so maybe I secretly pleased that they're not been done yet. 

 

You could sell that big bit of tin with all the squiggles on it to pay for 'em.

 

Just saying.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

With all this time on my hands, being furloughed from work, I am now tackling issues which I have put off or ignored in the past.

 

One of them is coach destination boards.  I have always just put them in a drawer but now I want to fit them. I am also getting very anal when it comes to the most minute detail.

 

I have destination boards with blue, red or green stripes. My understanding is that any given train will only have one colour, but now I am going further and taking a magnifying glass and separating the boards into different routes!! Yes, you need a magnifying glass to read the boards at close quarters and so who will be able to read them from 5ft away as they run past at speed at an exhibition - I did say that I was getting anal!

 

 

 So, may I ask ....

 

Is there anyone reading this who also has a stock of unfitted coach boards?

 

If so would you be prepared to do a swap so that I can make up complete trains all on the same route, or maybe you would just be prepared to let them go?

 

PLEASE feel sorry for me - things are really bad when you get this anal!

[john new]

Can you do what I did recently for some missing wagon logos, scan the one's you have and then print your own off?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

John

 

Thanks for the idea but the simple answer is 'no' - I very much doubt that an ordinary domestic scanner/printer could do the job. Remember that the writing is so small that I have had to use a magnifying glass to read it.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

With all this time on my hands, being furloughed from work, I am now tackling issues which I have put off or ignored in the past.

 

One of them is coach destination boards.  I have always just put them in a drawer but now I want to fit them. I am also getting very anal when it comes to the most minute detail.

 

I have destination boards with blue, red or green stripes. My understanding is that any given train will only have one colour, but now I am going further and taking a magnifying glass and separating the boards into different routes!! Yes, you need a magnifying glass to read the boards at close quarters and so who will be able to read them from 5ft away as they run past at speed at an exhibition - I did say that I was getting anal!

 

 

 So, may I ask ....

 

Is there anyone reading this who also has a stock of unfitted coach boards?

 

If so would you be prepared to do a swap so that I can make up complete trains all on the same route, or maybe you would just be prepared to let them go?

 

PLEASE feel sorry for me - things are really bad when you get this anal!

 

You don't need to be too particular about that - even if you fit the coach boards upside down, we wouldn't know!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

You don't need to be too particular about that - even if you fit the coach boards upside down, we wouldn't know!

 

I know, I would know - and it would drive me mad!  That's how anal I've become!!

[SHMD]

It's just too small!

 

Even though I can read Chinese proper nouns I would only do it if I could see them.

(I did download that photo but it was just not legible to see if the source destinations tied up with the PinYin beneath them.)

 

It's definitely a good idea that they are all the same on the one train.

Do you know  which long distance destinations should be served by these trains?

I can see ShangHai 上海, BeiJing 北京, XiAn 西安, GuangZhou 广州, etc being some of the destinations.

I can't see there being any destinations being further away, such as NingBo 宁波 or TianJin 天津, requiring the train to pass through ShangHai or BeiJing though.

 

 

Kev.

PS. I could tell if they were upside down or not

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

19 minutes ago, SHMD said:

It's just too small!

 

Even though I can read Chinese proper nouns I would only do it if I could see them.

(I did download that photo but it was just not legible to see if the source destinations tied up with the PinYin beneath them.)

 

It's definitely a good idea that they are all the same on the one train.

Do you know  which long distance destinations should be served by these trains?

I can see ShangHai 上海, BeiJing 北京, XiAn 西安, GuangZhou 广州, etc being some of the destinations.

I can't see there being any destinations being further away, such as NingBo 宁波 or TianJin 天津, requiring the train to pass through ShangHai or BeiJing though.

 

 

Kev.

PS. I could tell if they were upside down or not

 

 

OK, I must be serious for a minute - everything is a compromise in the end.

 

It's actually the Chinese characters that jump out (black on a white background) rather than the English translations underneath.  I totally agree that the English is so small that it doesn't matter, but the Chinese characters are more easily noticeable -

 

How many are there in each place name? Some are two, some three, some four

 

Shape - some are thin and straight up and down - some are square and boxy

 

In the photo there are two large groups - one is Shanghai to Beijing and one is Beijing to Shanghai and to me even from a distance I can easily tell they are different. I have no idea what they say, but I can tell they are not the same.

 

 

[SHMD]

44 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

OK, I must be serious for a minute - everything is a compromise in the end.

 

It's actually the Chinese characters that jump out (black on a white background) rather than the English translations underneath.  I totally agree that the English is so small that it doesn't matter, but the Chinese characters are more easily noticeable -

 

How many are there in each place name? Some are two, some three, some four

 

Shape - some are thin and straight up and down - some are square and boxy

 

In the photo there are two large groups - one is Shanghai to Beijing and one is Beijing to Shanghai and to me even from a distance I can easily tell they are different. I have no idea what they say, but I can tell they are not the same.

 

 

 

The "English translations underneath" are not English! They are the PinYin of the Chinese Characters and tell you how to pronounce the individual Chinese Characters. That is some thing the Chinese language does not do, and thus, makes it so much harder to learn.

(They should also have the "tones" marked above the relevant vowels.)

 

Place names can have 1 (rare), 2 (very common), 3 (common), 4 (Much less common) or even more Chinese characters in them. Basically the smaller (less important / newer) places have more characters.

e.g.

Xian, BeiJing, LianHuaShan, HuHeHaoTe...

Even the Chinese shorten the tongue twister of HuHeHaoTe, (the capital of Inner Mongolia), to HohHot! So you will see 4 Chinese Characters but only 2 PinYin words!

 

Notice that I normally don't accent the PinYin but I do begin each separate Chinese character with a capital letter. (No one else does this though but it helps me.)

I do this because some places look the same, in PinYin, but are very far apart.

e.g.

Xian is a small place and nowhere near the famous (Terracotta warriors of) XiAn. Even the Chinese show XiAn as Xi'an to distinguish it from the smaller Xian.

(You don't want to get a plane ticket to Xian and expect to see the Warriors that day!)

 

 

Where is BeiJiao set?

If it's not on the eastern seaboard of China then you can't use the boards with "BeiJing - ShangHai" on them.

 

 

Kev.

[Theakerr]

Talking of XiAn, on my second visit I thought i must have got on the wrong plane.  The first time I was there it was an 'old airport' and our Chinese hosts took us to what I believe was a traditional restaurant very close to the airport.  The second time, about 14 months later we landed, I looked out of the window, and found I had landed at an 'all new' airport.  Until the announcement came on (English second) I was having a minor panic attack because I was sure this was not the same place I had been too before.  Anyway it was but the old restaurant was gone - shame because the food was very good.

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, SHMD said:

Notice that I normally don't accent the PinYin but I do begin each separate Chinese character with a capital letter.

What a good idea!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 30/12/2020 at 14:36, SHMD said:

Where is BeiJiao set?

If it's not on the eastern seaboard of China then you can't use the boards with "BeiJing - ShangHai" on them.

 

 

Hello Kev

 

Thanks for that explanation - apologies for not replying before, but have been very busy over the last few days.

 

Where is BEIJIAO set? Very good question.

 

It is inspired by Jining or Tongliao in Inner Mongolia in the sense that the idea is that a Ji-Tong inspired bi-directional steam line begins at Beijiao and links to China Rail there.

 

As you will probably know by now, I can be extremely anal about certain things but as regards the coach destination boards I am not too bothered as the actual route they are as  the coaches will be about 4ft minimum away from the viewer and moving past them and 99.9999% of viewers won't know what they say anyway. I am more concerned that from that distance they look the same/similar - same colour, same general look - so that the differences (if any) don't jump out at you.

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

As regards to where  BEIJIAO is set - there are issues with that question.

 

On the layout I have tried to include features which I have seen on my travels around China. But I must admit that I have never analised exactly where I saw any particular feature.

 

In particular the open fronted shops with roller blinds. I absolutely love doing the interiors and the open shops are much easier to view than the ones with windows/doors, but I have always worried about having such shops in a cold northerly location.

 

My worry is .....

 

Have I combined a feature from further south (ie warmer) with the Ji-Tong concept in the bitterly cold north. I know that the Chinese hang heavy curtains over doorways in the north to keep the heat in but fully open air shops????

 

So, conclusion/question

 

Have I defined BEIJIAO as being in the middle of China by featuring these open fronted shops? If so I will have to re-define the concept of the bi-directional steam line. I want the layout to be consistent but I don't know enough about China to be convinced that I have got it right.

 

In a nutshell it would be like a Chinese tourist visiting the UK and then going back and building a layout which combined a loch (because he'd visited Scotland) and palm trees (because he'd visited Torquay) and him thinking in his ignorance that he had 'got it right'.

 

Comments please

[St Enodoc]

16 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As regards to where  BEIJIAO is set - there are issues with that question.

 

On the layout I have tried to include features which I have seen on my travels around China. But I must admit that I have never analised exactly where I saw any particular feature.

 

In particular the open fronted shops with roller blinds. I absolutely love doing the interiors and the open shops are much easier to view than the ones with windows/doors, but I have always worried about having such shops in a cold northerly location.

 

My worry is .....

 

Have I combined a feature from further south (ie warmer) with the Ji-Tong concept in the bitterly cold north. I know that the Chinese hang heavy curtains over doorways in the north to keep the heat in but fully open air shops????

 

So, conclusion/question

 

Have I defined BEIJIAO as being in the middle of China by featuring these open fronted shops? If so I will have to re-define the concept of the bi-directional steam line. I want the layout to be consistent but I don't know enough about China to be convinced that I have got it right.

 

In a nutshell it would be like a Chinese tourist visiting the UK and then going back and building a layout which combined a loch (because he'd visited Scotland) and palm trees (because he'd visited Torquay) and him thinking in his ignorance that he had 'got it right'.

 

Comments please

Paul, I don't think that it matters one jot. I am not as familiar with China as a whole as some here but I am fairly familiar with a few places in the far North, the East Coast and the South. I think that what you have created is a fine amalgam or portmanteau of features from different places and blended them together in a way that has China written right through it like a stick of rock - and my guess is that is exactly what you are trying to do. Carry on regardless!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I posted this image a while back and someone commented on nos 7 & 8 but for some reason I can't find the comments and so I have now changed them from memory to 7. Welding shop  8. Bulk rice and grain (correct?).

 

But I'm worried about #9 now. I have modeled it being gutted/refurbished hence my description as 'shop under repair' but I think it would be better to give it its actual theme - so can someone let me know what shop #9 actually is please?

 

[SHMD]

2 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I posted this image a while back and someone commented on nos 7 & 8 but for some reason I can't find the comments and so I have now changed them from memory to 7. Welding shop  8. Bulk rice and grain (correct?).

 

But I'm worried about #9 now. I have modeled it being gutted/refurbished hence my description as 'shop under repair' but I think it would be better to give it its actual theme - so can someone let me know what shop #9 actually is please?

 

 

Hi Paul, it was me BUT I can't find that post now either!

 

Anyway,

7/ was Welding but I don't know if its to supply equipment, consumables or it is offering its welding services. Knowing China, probably all 3.

8/ was bulk cooking oil and wheat grain. I don't know if it had that produce there, it was a shop front for a warehouse, or if a new business had moved in and not changed the sign yet.

9/ is a garage - as in car repairs. The sign is listing several Chinese car makes it deals with.

 

 

As to being able to read the destination boards on the train - I couldn't see them let alone read them from across the platform!

I took this shot in June 2013 at HuHeHaoTe, (the capital of Inner Mongolia), just before boarding my 7hour+ train to BeiJing.

 

 

Kev.

Edit to add where I took the photo.

Edited January 2, 2021 by SHMD

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

In a nutshell it would be like a Chinese tourist visiting the UK and then going back and building a layout which combined a loch (because he'd visited Scotland) and palm trees (because he'd visited Torquay) and him thinking in his ignorance that he had 'got it right'.

That does remind me of a UK-outline layout in a Kalmbach "Great Model Railroads" mag of a few years ago. No doubt to the average American it had all the 'typical British' features, but the guy's most basic error, despite having a friend he described as an expert on British trains, was that he was running them all 'wrong line'.

It looked to me like some kind of 'Hogwarts Nightmare', & I remember posting on RMweb asking if our US members saw similar glaring errors in UK-built, US-outline layouts. I'd like to think we put in some effort to get things right, & respond to constructive criticism - for example recently when I made a dis-used Train Order Board, it was pointed out to me that where I planted it at first, beyond the end of the Depot building, was wrong. I was very glad to relocate it to where it should be (right outside the Agent's office) as this made the scene 'correct' even if it obscures half the Order Board post from view.

 

I agree with St Enodoc's post above; what you have is a fine mix of a variety of elements which are all correct in themselves,  look good to those of us not so familiar with Chinese railways (or mostly just through the photos of Colin Garrett ) but avoid 'glaring errors' that would stick out to those with more knowledge of the prototype.

[PaulRhB]

Sometimes it’s a product of drawing together those memorable scenes to make the idealised representation that is the point. We see it in tv and film too so and it’s the driving force in most proto freelance type models. If you’re not modelling a specific place and period it’s because we are forced to make compromises to fit stuff in allow other favourite scenes or trains to be included, and entertain ourselves and viewers at shows. 
Equally to get it on the circuit and strive to move it closer to realism as we learn more is just as commendable. Each time I go to Germany or Switzerland I usually have a list of things I want to photograph or measure up to keep improving it as I realise what I don’t know. 
It looks like Chinese scenes I’ve seen and enjoyed so it certainly has already captured the flavour and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to improve it further. 
I tried running your shop sign thru the photo translation software but it’s too low a resolution so it can’t pick out the letters clearly, do you have a better resolution copy?

[SHMD]

9 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I posted this image a while back and someone commented on nos 7 & 8 but for some reason I can't find the comments and so I have now changed them from memory to 7. Welding shop  8. Bulk rice and grain (correct?).

 

But I'm worried about #9 now. I have modeled it being gutted/refurbished hence my description as 'shop under repair' but I think it would be better to give it its actual theme - so can someone let me know what shop #9 actually is please?

 

 

Hi Paul, I found where (and when) I posted the original translations - they were on the Warley thread, posted on the 18th of December last.

 

 

Kev.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

 

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

I tried running your shop sign thru the photo translation software but it’s too low a resolution so it can’t pick out the letters clearly, do you have a better resolution copy?

 

How about ........

 

Motor spares?

Edited January 2, 2021 by TEAMYAKIMA