BEIJIAO - a large Chinese HO exhibition layout set in the 21st century

[PaulRhB]

27 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

It comes up with this from the big letters in simplified Chinese

”J6 Kl A Xiaog Car Parts Wholesale Daquan”

 

and this when I use traditional 

“J6 money Kl A Xiaog car accessories wholesale daquan ”

[Geep7]

11 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As regards to where  BEIJIAO is set - there are issues with that question.

 

On the layout I have tried to include features which I have seen on my travels around China. But I must admit that I have never analised exactly where I saw any particular feature.

 

In particular the open fronted shops with roller blinds. I absolutely love doing the interiors and the open shops are much easier to view than the ones with windows/doors, but I have always worried about having such shops in a cold northerly location.

 

My worry is .....

 

Have I combined a feature from further south (ie warmer) with the Ji-Tong concept in the bitterly cold north. I know that the Chinese hang heavy curtains over doorways in the north to keep the heat in but fully open air shops????

 

So, conclusion/question

 

Have I defined BEIJIAO as being in the middle of China by featuring these open fronted shops? If so I will have to re-define the concept of the bi-directional steam line. I want the layout to be consistent but I don't know enough about China to be convinced that I have got it right.

 

In a nutshell it would be like a Chinese tourist visiting the UK and then going back and building a layout which combined a loch (because he'd visited Scotland) and palm trees (because he'd visited Torquay) and him thinking in his ignorance that he had 'got it right'.

 

Comments please

Hi Paul,

 

I am having similar thoughts regarding my latest layout project, which is Spanish outline. I intend it to be loosely based on the Catalan coast, but could be anywhere along the southern coast / central area of Spain.

 

Initially I told myself I was to be strict upon what sort of stock I would be running (anything that definitely appeared around Barcelona in the 1980's / early 1990's period), but the lack of availability of models means that I've expanded to include other areas of Spain I have visited.

 

At a British exhibition, (should I be invited to exhibit the layout at one) would the vast majority of visitors to the show, even those that have had a holiday on one of the Spanish Costa's, know what half the locomotive types are, let alone whether they ran in the region I'm modelling? As long as the layout is recognisably Spanish in appearance, and gives the correct flavour, I think it'll do the job. Thinking about it, I only know of 2 other Spanish outline layouts to have been on the exhibition circuit.

 

Regards, Chris

[luke_stevens]

9 hours ago, SHMD said:

<snip>

As to being able to read the destination boards on the train - I couldn't see them let alone read them from across the platform!

</snip>

 

 

 

 

I believe they are the small rectangle angle below the middle window.

 

In a way it doesn't matter what they say as long as they are there, and I suspect the same colour for the whole train?

 

Luke

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by luke_stevens
incorrect word used, corrected!

[mjenderby]

An interesting discussion. I started on a similar path to Paul but, given that my main layout is now fixed, it now has to just please me. Hence, it attempts to capture the flavour (sic) of China as I experienced it with cameos of specifically unique Chinese scenes but doesn't get in to "anal" territory. e.g. I use many US/Europe kits which look similar to Chinese structures and 3D printed buildings are copied from photos but to guessed dimensions. I have also built up a wide variety of locos, many which represent small classes which probably never met in real life. But, hey, I'm not worrying 

 

My new exhibition layout (based on the small US yard layouts) is more limited and easier to make look more authentic but works on the principal the majority of viewers know no better. My main problem is when Chinese speakers read my Chinese script where I use Google translate (shades of the old Hungarian Monty Python sketch!).

 

I think the biggest problem for modellers of "the East" is that railway modelling is not an established hobby in those countries. While there must clearly be a lot of sales in China they either appear on bare bones running layouts (often shared as, I presume most people don't have any space) or for static exhibition. So there isn't the modelling culture to provide the help/criticism/encouragement we need ... it all comes 2nd hand from the west.

 

I get the impression that only Europe has an extensive foreign modelling culture. Ah! first world problems.

 

Anyway, it does have its advantages ... what the modeller says is almost always right! But then your worst critic is always going to be yourself 

 

Cheers

 

Mark

 

https://nihao87.wordpress.com

 

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Just a quick report back on the C64k subject.

 

Up until recently I had about 84 of these cars by various manufacturers and recently I acquired another 19 and have spent the last few days finishing them off, but here is the REALLY anal bit .....................

 

As I've already said the non-Bachmann cars do not come with hooks and for several years I have been content to run them at exhibitions with hooks on one side only ie the viewing side. Also some of the many Bachmann versions had lost one set of steps and again I ran those with the side missing the step away from the public.  

 

NOT ANYMORE!

 

I have, in effect, used two of the extra Bachmann C64K's as donor vehicles. I decided that from now on ALL gondolas would have both sets of steps and hooks on both sides and if they didn't they would be sold off.

 

So I stripped two of the new cars of their steps and repaired the four cars with one set of steps missing. I then used their hooks to go back and make sure all of the now approx 101 gondolas were as detailed on the side hidden from the public as on the viewing side  - CRAZY!!!!

 

Here are three red oxide C64k's from the new batch - I love weathering these cars (especially the red oxide ones) because it makes each one an individual. As I said to someone the other day, 'I have 101 identical gondolas - all different!'

 

Notice that the one in the middle has obviously suffered some damage and so two of the side doors have just been replaced and so are still spotlessly clean - something I did see occasionally in China.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by TEAMYAKIMA
spelling

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I spent all day yesterday sorting out a problem which I only discovered when I looked again at the semi-professional video taken at Warley.

 

There is a HUGE glaring error in that video  - it jumps out at you, or at least it does to me.  In order to add variety to an otherwise rather drab train of black box cars I had ordered three red oxide box cars from China. To my horror they were a really light, bright almost orange colour rather than then dark moody red oxide colour of Bachmann vehicles. CONCLUSION - they would need a lot of weathering before they could go anywhere the layout.

 

So before Warley I spent HOURS trying to weather them - and it was VERY difficult - it needed 4/5 attempts to get  the cars anywhere near where I wanted them.  

 

Here are a couple of before and after shots...

 

 

 

The weathered version probably took 2/3 hours just to get one side and both ends to that condition and so I had an idea!  Back in the day we used to have a member of Twickenham & District MRC who only modelled one side of an item on his exhibition layout. He argued that the public only ever see one side of a building or an item of rolling stock so why bother detailing/painting/weathering the side that they don't see? A rake of GWR Ratio 4 wheelers would literally have the non-viewing side as unpainted plastic.

 

So, I thought - for Warley I won't weather the non-viewing side of these garish box cars - better to get three of them weathered on one side only and in the train than get two completely finished. Consequently, I got all three half-finished and packed them in the stock boxes ready for Warley.

 

We loaded the fiddle yard and ran trains for two days. We were so busy keeping trains running that I never ventured outside the layout and so I never saw the layout until I viewed this video.

 

Guess what?

 

Yes, you're right - that box car train somehow got put on the track the wrong way round and so the garish orange side faced the public.  Look again around 9.13 and 9.25 .......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by TEAMYAKIMA

[john new]

Ex-works?

 

[steveNCB7754]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I spent all day yesterday sorting out a problem which I only discovered when I looked again at the semi-professional video taken at Warley.

 

... Yes, you're right - that box car train somehow got put on the track the wrong way round and so the garish orange side faced the public.  Look again around 9.13 and 9.25 .......................

 

 

 

Superb work as always, though to be honest, it didn't jump out at me when I watched that video again.  What a video as well -  very therapeutic (let's hope we'll get to see it again in the not too distant future)!

 

On the subject of new/improved train formations (and referencing that video) -  have you considered any light-engine movements (single locos or even two/three together)?

 

Steve

 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Back in the day we used to have a member of Twickenham & District MRC who only modelled one side of an item on his exhibition layout. He argued that the public only ever see one side of a building or an item of rolling stock so why bother detailing/painting/weathering the side that they don't see? A rake of GWR Ratio 4 wheelers would literally have the non-viewing side as unpainted plastic

I often do that to my stock, for the same reason - seeing only one side at a time. Or I'll vary the weathering so it's 'slight' on one side & 'rust bucket' on the other. I've even had some locos carry a different number on each side to 'expand' my fleet. I do it with buildings where only one side will be seen.

I don't exhibit, though, so don't have to worry about making gaffes in public. Edit - which the public are highly unlikely to notice unless you flag it up!!

Edited January 9, 2021 by F-UnitMad

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, john new said:

Ex-works?

 

 

If only!  Seriously, the ends were heavily weathered so the clash of the non-weathered side and heavily weathered end was very noticeable - to me at least. The problem was that I very very rarely went out the front and then I would only notice it if that train had passed through the scenic section whilst I was out the front - and looking!

 

The other problem is/was that the CMR red oxide base colour is far lighter and more orange than the Bachmann version - The Bachmann version of red oxide would not have 'jumped out' so much.

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

34 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I often do that to my stock, for the same reason - seeing only one side at a time. Or I'll vary the weathering so it's 'slight' on one side & 'rust bucket' on the other. 

 

Yes, I get that idea, but there seems to be an 'issue' with this CMR paint and my wethereing technique - using weathering powders.  I will put on weathering powder and seal it with Dullcote matt spray and when it dries the weathering appears patchy ie as far as I am concerned I rub in the same amount all over the car but once the varnish dries some parts of the car are very heavily weathered and other bits are quite lightly weathered. So, the only way I have managed to get a consistent level of weathering is to have 3/4 goes and end up with a very heavily weathered car.

 

This problem can be seen to a far less degree with the Bachmann paint but why the CMR cars are like that I don't know - maybe I should have washed the cars in warm water and a little detergent before I weathered them. I will try to find a photo of a CMR box car after the first coat of weathering

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I will put on weathering powder and seal it with Dullcote matt spray...

Although I have some powders I've not got around to using them yet, but I believe what a lot of modellers do especially with R-T-R stuff is spray a coat of matt varnish first, as a key for the powders to adhere to better than the factory finish, so results are more consistent.

Might be worth a try.

Edited January 9, 2021 by F-UnitMad
Why do I only ever see my spelling mistakes AFTER pressing 'Submit Post'..??!!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

33 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Although I have some powders I've not got around to using them yet, but I believe what a lot of modellers do especially with R-T-R stuff is spray a coat of matt varnish first, as a key for the powders to adhere to better than the factory finish, so results are more consistent.

Might be worth a try.

 

Yes, TBH I do do that. I will try to find a 'first coat' finish tomorrow to illustrate my point.

 

TBH (again) a patchy finish works quite well on a coal car but I think box cars need a more uniform finish

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I often do that to my stock, for the same reason - seeing only one side at a time. Or I'll vary the weathering so it's 'slight' on one side & 'rust bucket' on the other. I've even had some locos carry a different number on each side to 'expand' my fleet. I do it with buildings where only one side will be seen.

I don't exhibit, though, so don't have to worry about making gaffes in public. Edit - which the public are highly unlikely to notice unless you flag it up!!

On a previous layout, which incorporated a reverse loop, I did exactly that with some locos and also painted some coaches in different liveries on each side.

[luke_stevens]

On 09/01/2021 at 13:52, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Yes, I get that idea, but there seems to be an 'issue' with this CMR paint and my wethereing technique - using weathering powders.  I will put on weathering powder and seal it with Dullcote matt spray and when it dries the weathering appears patchy ie as far as I am concerned I rub in the same amount all over the car but once the varnish dries some parts of the car are very heavily weathered and other bits are quite lightly weathered. So, the only way I have managed to get a consistent level of weathering is to have 3/4 goes and end up with a very heavily weathered car.

 

This problem can be seen to a far less degree with the Bachmann paint but why the CMR cars are like that I don't know - maybe I should have washed the cars in warm water and a little detergent before I weathered them. I will try to find a photo of a CMR box car after the first coat of weathering

Hi Paul,

After the wash it may be worth giving a coat of gloss before the matt. This will seal the surface and ensure that the matt has a standard surface.

Good for washes too.

Luke

Edited January 10, 2021 by luke_stevens

[luke_stevens]

On 09/01/2021 at 11:59, TEAMYAKIMA said:

<snip>

Guess what?

 

Yes, you're right - that box car train somehow got put on the track the wrong way round and so the garish orange side faced the public.  Look again around 9.13 and 9.25 .......................

<snip>

Them pesky operators again...

 

Luke

[TEAMYAKIMA]

4 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Them pesky operators again...

 

Luke

 

 

It wasn't the operators' fault Luke. I have a fantastic team of operators - as you well know - being one of them yourself. It was my 'fault'  and I need to learn from that and make sure that similar things don't occur in the future.

 

This actually brings up a very interesting problem I/we have with this layout. It is a big problem and needs to be recognised and protocols put in place to make sure that similar 'errors' don't happen again.

 

Now, TBH I have attempted to lay out this 'problem' at least twice here on RMweb, but twice I have decided not to click on the 'Submit Reply' button because it is actually a sensitive issue and my post could easily be misunderstood.

 

When it comes to operational issues ie problems at exhibitions - the fault is 99% mine because I have not spent enough time/effort thinking up the protocols needed to set up, operate and dismantle the layout properly at shows.

 

As regards to this particular problem (the non-weathered side of the box car being shown to the viewing side) I have now dealt with it because I have now weathered the three red oxide box cars on both sides, but there are other faults/problems/issues which need to be addressed and in all cases the problem really starts and ends with me and I need to think things through and set protocols to make sure such 'issues' don't arise again.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by TEAMYAKIMA

[PaulRhB]

Surely the only protocol needed is to put stock on from outside the layout or check the fiddleyard from outside the layout before the start of the show? 
Even with a checklist there’s often a gremlin that throws the plan out.
Every layout throws up things like this and you just don’t realise there’s an issue until you notice something like this. I once was rushed so got someone else to put out the vehicles “anywhere you like” only to realise they were all on the wrong side of the road later when looking at a photo I’d just taken! 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

5 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Every layout throws up things like this and you just don’t realise there’s an issue until you notice something like this. 

 

Yes, I agree with you, but I have to think and plan to avoid as many of these as possible, I have to imagine what could go wrong and design a protocol to try to ensure that it doesn't.

 

The underlying 'problem' is that this is basically a personal layout with a team of 'outside' helpers as opposed to a club (or group) layout and I cannot expect a helper to know everything that needs to be known, especially if I have made changes/improvements in the 4 months since they last saw the layout. Unlike a club layout which will probably go up in the clubroom every week so that the operating team can practise, practise and practise again, most of my helpers only get to see (and work on) the layout at shows.

 

So as to illustrate my point ...................

 

Each of the 18 FY roads has a train on it to begin with. Each train is split into three box files and those three box files fit into a unique large cardboard box labelled TRACK #1 etc. Each piece of rolling stock has a 'good' side and a 'bad' side and I (try to) put each piece of stock into its box file the correct way round - but that is based on my assumption that my helper at the exhibition will stand in the same position as I do when the stock comes out of the box.

 

So here is an early photo of the 18 road FY. and there are four different positions that someone could stand when putting the stock on - inside the layout l/h end, inside the layout r/h end, outside the layout l/h end , outside the layout r/h end. So, using the issue with the unweathered side of the box cars as an example ........

 

I put the stock into the box files on the assumption that tracks 1-10 (in the photo the closest track is #1) are filled from outside the layout and 11-18 from inside - because that is the way I would do it.  But, at a show a helper is given the job of filling tracks 1-10 and for some reason they find it easier to fill tracks 9 and 10 from the inside - then that stock will go on the wrong way round. Similar problems arise if the helper stands at the left hand end of the layout or the right hand end.

 

 

 

CONCLUSION - I have to think of every eventuality and make a plan and most importantly I have to assume that the random helper who volunteers to do any particular job has liitle or no experience - I have to spell out what needs to be done.

 

So in a case like the unweathered box car there are two possible causes.....

 

1. I put the those cars in the box file the wrong way round in the first place - my fault/responsibility.

2. The cars were the right way round in the box file, but I had not made it clear that that train had to be put on the FY track from inside the layout not outside - my fault/responsibility.

 

I cannot expect helpers who only see the layout a few times a year to know all the little nuances of how to set up the layout, and so it is my responsibility to make sure that things are as logical as possible and where there are nuances that they are made very clear to those who are not as familiar with the layout as I am.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by TEAMYAKIMA

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On a different subject, my wife signed for a parcel for me this morning. I did mention to her a few days ago that I had ordered some stock the other day and she knows I model H0 and so she thinks I've gone rather crazy!

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

OK, it wasn't more HO stock - even I'm not THAT crazy!

 

It was my custom made showcase for my Gauge 1 QJ  - at last!

 

[steveNCB7754]

14 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

OK, it wasn't more HO stock - even I'm not THAT crazy!

 

It was my custom made showcase for my Gauge 1 QJ  - at last!

 

 

 

Phew!!  Could have been worse -  as in another Gauge 1 QJ (LOL)!

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

As you all know I have been trying to think of ways of making my layout more popular with viewers at exhibitions. One idea was to enlarge the operating team to include some who could stand at the front of the layout and interact with the visitors.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

30 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As you all know I have been trying to think of ways of making my layout more popular with viewers at exhibitions. One idea was to enlarge the operating team to include some who could stand at the front of the layout and interact with the visitors.

 

 

Will they have to be bilingual?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

2 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As you all know I have been trying to think of ways of making my layout more popular with viewers at exhibitions. One idea was to enlarge the operating team to include some who could stand at the front of the layout and interact with the visitors.

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Will they have to be bilingual?

 

 

I had interviewed several people for the job of being my front of house team and finally chosen these two and was about to introduce them to the existing team members, but then all exhibitions got cancelled - DOH!