Chris Dark Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hi all, I have been searching the net to try and understand which type of wheels the GWR used. I came accross this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69658-pre-nationalisation-coach-wheels-with-holes-in/ which in post 2 gives me some information for coaches but i am struggling for wagons. I remember seeing that most the wagons up to 10tonne used 8 spoke and over used 10 spoke but if somebody could give me a bit more information i would be gratefull. was there a cross over time for all stock over to 2 hole or 3 hole? Last thing is, is there any difference in the metal wheels Bachmann and Hornby produce? I have bought Hornby in the past which seem fine but as I have build my own track this timeI was wondering if either are better for the narrower flangways? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 3 hole wheels started to appear in the late 20's on GWR wagons. Looking at pictures suggests that wheels were not changed over just so that they were up to the latest build standard, but as required, so you will find wagons with one wheelset with spokes and the other with 3 holes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 3 hole wheels started to appear in the late 20's on GWR wagons. Looking at pictures suggests that wheels were not changed over just so that they were up to the latest build standard, but as required, so you will find wagons with one wheelset with spokes and the other with 3 holes. Spoked wheels continued to be used well into BR days; I have seen works photos, taken in the late 1950s, of new wagons with spoked wheels. I saw 12/13t merchandise vans and wagons with one spoked and one disc set as late as the 1980s; presumably sets recovered from scrapped vehicles, Changes such as fitting disc wheels, or vacuum brakes, didn't happen overnight, but over a (very) prolonged period. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I remember seeing that most the wagons up to 10tonne used 8 spoke and over used 10 spoke but if somebody could give me a bit more information i would be gratefull. 8-spoke wheels came in a thin-spoke type (for 6T to 8T) and a slightly thicker spoke type (for 10T to 12T). I'm not sure whether there was a hard and fast rule for the crossover weight for 10-spoke wheels, but I think it was probably 12T rather than 10T. Most (all?) Toads were 10-spoke, for example. Machinery wagons/trucks, e.g. Morels, Loriots, tended to have 10-spoke or even I think in some cases 12-spoke, depending on weight. The spokes of such wheels were chunkier still, like a loco carrying or tender wheel. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Was it just a general increase in spoke thickness and overall robustness as wagon capacities increased, or a deliberate increase in size each time the new heavier wagons were introduced? Mid to late 19th century wagon and coach (not all were Mansells) wheels had remarkably spindly spokes with much thinner rims than later types. On solid wheels, Atkins et al. suggest the situation was a little more complex. In 1911, 13 brakevans and 14 coal wagons were fitted with Schoen wheels, a pressed steel type with spiral ribs on the inside face. At a quick glance, these would have looked like solid wheels. The GWR introduced their own rolled steel solid wheels in 1926 as part of the adoption of RCH standards. 3-hole discs appeared "...progressively after 1930." They note that unlike these solid types, the earlier spoked varieties had separate tyres. Perhaps this contributed to their longevity. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I am down to my last dozen or so Romford Wagon Wheels and find that a few are not 3 hole disc but solid! I think (and I stress think) I have seen pictures of some ex S R wagons with solid wheels in B R days. Given the difficulty in obtaining Romfords these days I would like an excuse to use them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted November 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, RonnieS said: I am down to my last dozen or so Romford Wagon Wheels and find that a few are not 3 hole disc but solid! I think (and I stress think) I have seen pictures of some ex S R wagons with solid wheels in B R days. Given the difficulty in obtaining Romfords these days I would like an excuse to use them. For 3-hole, you might consider the Bachmann spares route. Happy modelling, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Some other EM modellers tell me that pulled-out Hornby wagon/coach wheels work better than Bachmann ones. Shall be trying this on the new Hornby Collett 57’ coaches in the next few days. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 hours ago, RonnieS said: I am down to my last dozen or so Romford Wagon Wheels and find that a few are not 3 hole disc but solid! I think (and I stress think) I have seen pictures of some ex S R wagons with solid wheels in B R days. Given the difficulty in obtaining Romfords these days I would like an excuse to use them. A rather small fraction of SECR wagons were built with Mansell-pattern wheels of diameter ~3'2". A plain-disc wheel is not a perfect representation of this (try AGW for a proper version), but you might consider it near enough. Most SECR wagons with Mansell wheels were the "express" kind that had ~3'7" wheels for faster running. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) deleted post Edited November 5, 2019 by RonnieS deleted post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) I found this on Paul Bartlett's Photographs https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/hedcb1d5 Edited November 5, 2019 by RonnieS new post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Bachmann wheels have slightly thicker flanges (NMRA) than Hornby. There may be problems with EM flangeways. I have had them jam, but that is probably my tracklaying. Hornby and Romford have no problems however. My wheels aren't the latest production though, as I haven't bought any new since the price went above £6 a packet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 06/11/2019 at 16:38, Il Grifone said: Bachmann wheels have slightly thicker flanges (NMRA) than Hornby. There may be problems with EM flangeways. I have had them jam, but that is probably my tracklaying. Hornby and Romford have no problems however. My wheels aren't the latest production though, as I haven't bought any new since the price went above £6 a packet. Re a previous post of mine on this thread. I have now pulled out the wheels to EM gauge on my Hornby 57’ Collett coach ( the latest sort, not the Railroad sort). The coach works fine being pulled and pushed at speed even through small radius (Ma rcway) points. Saves money on new wheels! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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