Rapido Trains French release?

[mikeharvey22]

I understand there is some envy across the water that Rapido's plans do not include the other gas turbine prototype of the early 1970s the SNCF/Alsthom TGV-001. It achieved a few high speed records and paved the way for the extensive French high speed network with trains running into all of the neighbouring countries. Like APT-E it was a fixed formation short train with impressive sound, and still holds the world speed record for gas turbine powered trains.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_001

[ThaneofFife]

at least not until all the british outlines are exhausted.

[JSpencer]

Rapido has just entered a new market (UK) and has resources tied up in it. Given that the French aren't exactly Anglophiles I doubt the French market is something Jason wants to tackle any time soon (or at all!)

Being a Brit that has lived in France for 15 years, I could do all the speak for him. I am sure once the French see my APT-E at expos, they will be drooling for the same!

[John B]

The original French Turbotrains (not TGV-001, there was a whole fleet of SNCF Turbotrains) also worked for years in Amtrak livery in the North East US. And Jason is at least partly French-Canadian, of Montreal...

 

I'd love a Turbo in Amtrak and / or SNCF livery, the latter were iconic to me as a teenager on visits to Paris. And the old Jouef model is awful by current standards.

[Fat Controller]

If they did these beasts with sound, you'd get complaints from the neighbours; quite the noisiest trains I recollect hearing. They used to work on services from Lyon via Paray-le-Monial to Bordeaux (?), past our vineyards in Beaujolais- you heard them about ten minutes before they came into view.

[alfsboy]

Jason is from a country where the French insist they own it .

[rapidotrains]

We don't speak French here - we speak Quebecois! (It's called Joual.)

 

For instance, the French pronounce "oui" like "uwee."  We say "" or "uuuwwoooo" or something similarly unrecognizable or rude. Our words are different too.  When I asked someone in Nice "Ou est le stationnement?" she thought I was speaking Swahili.  And when someone in Canada says "Merci" we respond "Bienvenue."  Seriously.

 

TGV-001 is very similar in its mythos to APT-E and is very famous here.  At the Ontario Science Centre here in Toronto in the 1980s you could go into a little theatre in the transportation section and watch a film about a rail speed record.  Was it about the Canadian Turbo's speed record in 1976?  No!  It was all about TGV-001!

 

I have more than one coffee table book with TGV-001 on the cover (or just inside it).

 

So yes, TGV-001 would make a very interesting prototype.  The trouble is that, unlike the UK and North American markets, Bill and I know sod all about the French market.  So it would be a difficult market to get into.  

 

I've seen too many manufacturers try to break into a market where they clearly have no clue, ultimately failing.  That would be us and France.

 

-Jason 

[Oldddudders]

The French market expects to pay more. Models here are pricey, and I feel volume is substantially lower than the UK. Yet new niche manufacturers, using Chinese contractors, continue to pop up with utterly modern-quality (i.e. lots of fiddly bits to attach and break every time you handle it) products.

 

Take Rail87, a new name less than 3 years ago http://www.rail87.fr/ producing various versions of the little 'Mobylette' railcar. Even the discounters are pricing these at nearly £200, DCC ready HO and less than 7" long, so not much for your money. But they are gorgeous! And they've run into the same Chinese sand as others, with the final (unpainted aluminium) version still not released many months after the rest.

 

Now R37 http://www.r37.fr/X5600.html also in Tours, have appeared with the even quirkier X5600 range in manufacture.

 

Jason is far too savvy to jump without a parachute here. But the demand for niche models does exist.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I've seen too many manufacturers try to break into a market where they clearly have no clue, ultimately failing.  That would be us and France...

Savyy, and setting new standards in RTR manufacturer candidness too.

 

Some years ago while visiting a French ex-colleague, he got out a new HO release from a small HO 'boutique' operation (I think the maker was 'Mistral') and it was exquisite, much in the style of Rapido's 'insane detail'.

[Oldddudders]

Savyy, and setting new standards in RTR manufacturer candidness too.

 

Some years ago while visiting a French ex-colleague, he got out a new HO release from a small HO 'boutique' operation (I think the maker was 'Mistral') and it was exquisite, much in the style of Rapido's 'insane detail'.

Mistral, who are Belgian, have been absent lately, but I have several of their Picasso railcars, which are pretty impressive. The digital versions have a cab-light which goes off when the vehicle reaches a certain speed. The Mistral website says they are back, and the problems have been other than financial.

[Joseph_Pestell]

We don't speak French here - we speak Quebecois! (It's called Joual.)

 

For instance, the French pronounce "oui" like "uwee."  We say "######" or "uuuwwoooo" or something similarly unrecognizable or rude. Our words are different too.  When I asked someone in Nice "Ou est le stationnement?" she thought I was speaking Swahili.  And when someone in Canada says "Merci" we respond "Bienvenue."  Seriously.

 

TGV-001 is very similar in its mythos to APT-E and is very famous here.  At the Ontario Science Centre here in Toronto in the 1980s you could go into a little theatre in the transportation section and watch a film about a rail speed record.  Was it about the Canadian Turbo's speed record in 1976?  No!  It was all about TGV-001!

 

I have more than one coffee table book with TGV-001 on the cover (or just inside it).

 

So yes, TGV-001 would make a very interesting prototype.  The trouble is that, unlike the UK and North American markets, Bill and I know sod all about the French market.  So it would be a difficult market to get into.  

 

I've seen too many manufacturers try to break into a market where they clearly have no clue, ultimately failing.  That would be us and France.

 

-Jason 

 

Hi Jason,

 

I am commenting as the former owner of a model railway business in  France.

 

It's not an easy market - although changed beyond recognition in the last 20 years as various small producers and also Piko have taken an interest in French prototype.

 

But does it matter if you don't know the market that well? Here in the UK, you are leaving that bit to NRM/Locomotion. You might well be able to find a similar partner in France.

 

Joseph

 

PS: I enjoyed your comments about Quebec French. Technically, it is more true to the original language than French French which has been exposed to more outside influence than they care to admit. There are many opportunities for embarrassment for the Quebec French speaker when travelling in France. Parking, a good example of the French (mis)using a foreign word, is the least of your worries.

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

[luke_stevens]

Well as the American version is close to the French version...

 

What about Rapido making the American version and then seeing if there is sufficient interest in the French one?

 

 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/RTG_Roanne_12-10-04.jpg/300px-RTG_Roanne_12-10-04.jpg

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Ann_Arbor_AMTK_May_1975_5-30.jpg/300px-Ann_Arbor_AMTK_May_1975_5-30.jpg

 

Luke

[JSpencer]

I thought Jason,s French did not sound particularly French ;-)

 

At Olddudders, even the French don't know what market they have!

 

I find it bit of a myth that all of continental (or even Western) Europe want only the very very best at top notch prices.

 

Most models are either worse than Hornby's Railroad or are at the opposite stream, for an elitist rich. Serious modellers on more modest incomes are put off by either being too expensive or too toy like. Likewise serious potential newcomers find everything hors de prix and don't bother taking up the hobby.

 

When I do expos showing my Brit outline, after going "what is it?", it is "c'est combien?" and they then faint, fall on the floor in disbelief.

 

I think Bachmann quality at Bachmann prices would do very well over here.

[mikeharvey22]

The bass in those RTG videos made my Ipad quiver!

[jsp3970]

Jason hasn't even finished the Canadian market!

 

Kind of upset that I missed the order deadline for one of the FPA-4's. Guess I will have to hunt around for one when they come out.

[BBD]

I take exception to the French / Quebecois comments above . BTW Jason is an anglo-Quebecois who lives in Toronto.

Quel Horreur!

 

Speaking of dialect the only place where I have difficulty understanding the native "English" and slang is in western Canada.

I believe my English is correct and functional. But than again western Canada has it's own variety of English and slangs.

 

Speaking of Trains

 

There is a market in France for another player, especially one from the new world even if in a niche market. The key as we all know is to produce / introduce the right model at the right time, such has the APT-E in the UK. Being a regular reader of LR and other French Train Miniature et Train reel magazine and participants in various French forums, I can only conclude that there is a list of potential targets waiting to be done.

 

The TGV001 is a good example amongst many. After all the French railway history is a rich one as well.

 

Would Rapido Trains be stretch too thin to do this?

 

Rapido Trains Canadian market has room for new products

Rapido Trains US has barely scratched the surface of this huge and lucrative market

 

Jason new venture in the UK is in keeping with his own railfanning interest and experience.

 

So what is next? Only one person could answer: Jason himself. Unfortunately he is not saying

 

 

Au revoir et bon wee

[JSpencer]

Jason already said previously that Rapido would be like a fish out of water in France.

 

In anycase, anyone with disposable income here (France) quickly finds it being taxed one way or another for "solidarity", so it does not exist. Recent laws even apply retroactivly and even being dead is not an excuse to not pay! (I know one dead man's son who recently got a tax bill for his father for revenues earned dating back 18 years!).

 

That is why I say Hornby are wasting time bringing out a 400 euro French loco as no one can afford it, Rapido would suffer a terrible fate I fear.

[61661]

Just in case anyone from the French model railway market is reading this, can I put in a bid for a BB20200 please? Jouef and LS Models keep ignoring it, despite it having some appeal to German and Swiss modellers too.

[jivebunny]

As a Frenchie myself (born here, grew up in Britain, then moved back for the wine and sunshine), I think a new major player would be very welcome indeed. Over the past 10-15 years the hobby seems to have very much become a rich man's pastime, with individual HO locomotives from the big names retailing at obscene prices upwards of 200€ / £150. Prices around 70€ / £50 for a coach from manufacturers such as LSModels seem to be - sadly - rapidly becoming the norm. At the other end of the "scale", as has already been mentioned, you have poor-quality toys such as the MEHANO range that pop up in Toys R Us before Christmas and then disappear again, toys which would never even consider appearing in anything other than current liveries, obviously. The French market offers such poor choice and lack of competition that it led me to choose to model British N, despite the poor €/£ exchange rate and the extra postage costs of importing stuff from the UK.

 

In the mid-90s, before Jouef and Lima boxes disappeared from the shelves, you could go into a major toy chain such as King Jouet and there'd be a large selection of trainsets available (basic sets as well as "modéliste" train packs), as well as a big display case or two with locomotives, stock and scenery on show. Very much the sort of thing you still see today if you pop into a certain toy shop on Regent Street. In my opinion there's plenty of space for a new manufacturer producing decent-to-high quality models at a competitive price, to satisfy the vast majority of modellers who are currently having to source very old second-hand stock made by defunct manufacturers in order to keep their hobby affordable. A good indicator of just how poorly the French market is would be my recently-completed quest to acquire a prototypical, good-quality TGV Atlantique in the original 1990s livery (two power cars and ten trailers). Bearing in mind this is one of the most popular and iconic trains on the French network, in a livery recognised across the world, it seems unusual that the only models available are ones that were last produced 14 years ago (11 years ago in the case of the Lima models) and which have become even more of a collector's item than they were when they were available. The only way I was able to acquire one was to trawl eBay every week in the hope of finding what I needed. Took me six months to put my rake together, and a good few hundred euros...

 

Decent TGVs have started to appear again in the past few years from Märklin and Hornby Jouef (although not in Atlantique livery!), however a new RTG/Turbotrain would go down a treat on the French market, the only one available (as far as I'm aware) being a Jouef model from the 70s, which was upgraded a bit in the early 80s and then went out of production in 2000 (the same year the real thing was withdrawn. Another popular type of train would be the various push-pull rakes that have been in use around Paris for the past 40 years - ViTrains realised this a couple of years ago and started to produce VB2N rakes in various liveries - although I don't know if / when they'll be doing another run of these. I'd love a full rake, having been woken up by them at 5.30am every day for the past two years.

 

I'll get off my soapbox now though, and cross my fingers for a new player in the French market (the French like Canadians anyway, so that's a good start).

 

JB

I was still missing a trailer when I took the photo... I'm told a complete rake is quite a rarity these days.

[mikeharvey22]

Funnily enough I have been having this very discussion today with a French N scale enthusiast so envious of the N gauge Pendolino project now being realised.

[Revolution Ben]

Funnily enough I have been having this very discussion today with a French N scale enthusiast so envious of the N gauge Pendolino project now being realised.

 

He needn't be envious - he can buy one and run it as I am sure I have seen photos of the additional ones built later being towed through France on their way to Britain from Italy!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[mikeharvey22]

Right Ben and I think I will persuade him to sign for a Pendolino, but his envy was more for the successful Pendo campaign that he could not see working in France, despite there being suitable subjects like their modern EMUs which are narrow variations on a theme, or the older Z2 EMUs which are AC, or DC, or dual current on identical bodyshells with just a two roof variations, and run all over the electrified network apart from Paris.

[jivebunny]

Unfortunately the business landscape of France is such that unless it's French, or thoroughbred descendant French (begium / Luxembourg / Swiss) at worst Germanic, your chances are stacked somewhat against you, as increasing barriers will emerge in your path.

 

 

Strange, Tokyo and Devon don't particularly ooze Frenchness, yet stockists here don't seem to have much trouble stocking and subsequently selling out of Kato TGVs or Peco track.

 

What the French authorities don't appreciate is the US model of "Hey, we're here to make money to send out of the country. We'd like to make your folk work 50 hours a week with third-world pay and benefits, oh and we need to be able to fire them with five minutes' notice. We have a deal, right?"

 

Burger King opened their first Paris restaurant (since pulling out of France completely in the late 90s) at St Lazare in late 2013 and to this day,if you want a Whopper then you'll be queuing out of the door for a good 20 minutes before reaching the tills. When it first opened, the queues were so ridiculously long that you would literally have had your burger more quickly if you made your way over to Gare du Nord and hopped on the first Eurostar to London to buy one there. Levi's 501 jeans are still the most popular brand here, 25 years after they stopped being advertised on everything from TV to bus shelters. In all my years of living here I don't think I've ever met anyone with a French brand of vacuum cleaner / TV / fridge / washing machine. All this to say that the French are certainly not averse to products from outside of the borders, if that's what the suggestion is. If anything, the French reluctance to buy any French products other than food and cars is quite a problem.

 

A model rail company could do worse than produce a high-quality, high-demand French model at a reasonable price. The market here is crying out for this sort of stuff. People are having to pay 380€ for a two-car multiple unit, for Pete's sake (sorry Pete).

 

JB

 

Edit: This is the queue for Burger King St Lazare on opening day. Rapido introducing a decent model to the French market that costs less than half of the average monthly rent or mortgage would probably see similar queues. Probably.