Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

[Sir TophamHatt]

17 hours ago, blueeighties said:

Why? Lots of new loco/sound decoder combos are already very near or at that price point. Hasn't stopped folk buying them.

 

But there is something quite unique about model railways that people appear to just shrug their shoulders and accept the price increase, blaming it on every other excuse possible, apart from a company simply wanting more profit.

 

All it's doing is separating those who can afford Toy trains, and thus have no hope of being a serious modeller, and those who buy the all-bells-and-whistles version of a loco, who will always be able to afford it.

 

What it does, is damage the core group of middle ground people who can't always afford a loco, but save and manage to buy.  This group is more likely to aspire to be in the "I'll pay more for a loco" than the "toy train" route.  They're more likely to throw in the towel all together.

 

Never seen price rises such as those accepted without much question in model railways in any other hobby.

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Never seen price rises such as those accepted without much question in model railways in any other hobby.

 

Because the manufacturers have related the reasons for prices to us many times; most understand it and accept it - some don't.

['CHARD]

2 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

What it does, is damage the core group of middle ground people who can't always afford a loco, but save and manage to buy.  This group is more likely to aspire to be in the "I'll pay more for a loco" than the "toy train" route.  They're more likely to throw in the towel all together.

 

 

Throw in the towel in a fit of pique, and abandon the hobby?  Seriously? 

 

You suggested they will tend to save up for a major purchase; would they really get so despondent that they give up a hobby that they otherwise presumably derive fulfilment from?  Personally, I think the reasons for pressing 'Pause' on the hobby are more likely to be identified in the 'Modelling mojo and state of mind' topic, if I'm honest.  How flush someone is from one month to the next is a reality of life for 99.9% of us.

[Sir TophamHatt]

13 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because the manufacturers have related the reasons for prices to us many times; most understand it and accept it - some don't.

 

I'm not saying I don't accept it, but I bet bottom dollar "rising prices in China" isn't the whole truth.

It's for another topic anyway.

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

It's for another topic anyway.

 

It isn't; it's been done to death.

[wombatofludham]

All this talk about the pantograph, I wonder if those who have spoken to Bachmann about the servo fitted jobby know if it is possible to fix the pan in one position permanently?  I'm planning scenic OHLE and most definitely don't want the pan rubbing the wires otherwise it'll snag when transitioning from the fiddle yard, so was planning to fix the pan just below contact wire height.  Obviously that is doable with dummy pans, but this servo powered one is a different mackerel filled steam loco altogether.  If an "approved" DCC sound chip is fitted and the servo function is maintained, is the height adjustable or does it keep going until it reaches it's full height?  I wonder how much force the pantograph will exert on any catenary?

Perhaps fitting any old chip and burning out the motor might be a way forward if a tad drastic, or running it pan down behind an 87 as a demic loco!

[AY Mod]

27 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I wonder if those who have spoken to Bachmann about the servo fitted jobby know if it is possible to fix the pan in one position permanently?

 

My understanding is that the user will be able to set CV values from 0-255 for the up and down positions on the decoder so the answer is broadly yes. There will be a comprehensive booklet with the configurables and I know Bachmann are working on a video which runs through the features and functions which should appear in due course.

 

Bachmann will be at the opening day of Kernow's new shop in Guildford next Wednesday (along with me and Phil) so we'll have chance to have a play and let folks know a bit more.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Because the manufacturers have related the reasons for prices to us many times; most understand it and accept it - some don't.

 

What I think that some of us are finding hard to understand is why Bachmann should be so much more impacted by price rises than other manufacturers seem to be.

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Bachmann should be so much more impacted by price rises than other manufacturers seem to be.

 

Bachmann Europe is effectively a subsidiary of a Chinese manufacturing business so they are tied to one production provider. Step back 10 years and that facility was effectively under-costing output so a realignment of attributing true costs to projects in addition to increasing labour rates (due to legislature and more hi-tech competitors in the geographical are), rising material and distribution costs have all played a part. I don't recall people saying they felt they were getting great value for money a decade ago but we did hear people saying they wanted better quality and more features. They've all given us that but we're never happy.

[woodenhead]

7 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

What I think that some of us are finding hard to understand is why Bachmann should be so much more impacted by price rises than other manufacturers seem to be.

And at the end of the day Bachmann can choose their prices, we have a choice too, to buy or not to buy, so far people seem to still be buying.

 

I am sure growing competition from Hornby, Dapol, Hattons, Rails, Accurascale, Cavalex et al  will iron out any bumps in their pricing structure 

[Legend]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

And at the end of the day Bachmann can choose their prices, we have a choice too, to buy or not to buy, so far people seem to still be buying.

 

I am sure growing competition from Hornby, Dapol, Hattons, Rails, Accurascale, Cavalex et al  will iron out any bumps in their pricing structure 

 Like the sudden reduction in price of the 66 for instance when faced with Hornby and Hattons versions .

 

Its true, as a disbeliever of some of the pricing statements, at the end of the day buy or don't buy . The only thing I've got in the last 5 years was a dbso, and that was a gift to me , not something I bought myself .

Edited April 25, 2019 by Legend

[shunny]

Not sure why the price from Bachmann is causing an issue? Hornby's class 87 cost the same as class 90 but does not have a working panto, only has an 8 pin socket and the lights are not perfect for day and night sequences. 

I understand the chip will be expensive for the 90 but on the flip side you are not paying extra for the working panto. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by shunny

[Pete the Elaner]

11 hours ago, shunny said:

Not sure why the price from Bachmann is causing an issue? Hornby's class 87 cost the same as class 90 but does not have a working panto, only has an 8 pin socket and the lights are not perfect for day and night sequences. 

 

& the Bachmann 90 has a speaker fitted too.

As Andy remarked earlier, years ago we heard calls for better models. Now we have better models but at higher prices. You cannot have it both ways.

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi everyone,

 

I am looking forward to the Freightliner 90 when it comes out. A cracking looking model and I’ve seen the real one a few times at Waverley stables for sleeper duties. After discounts the loco is around £150 which is the same as most other D&E locos for a brand new model with working panto, lighting and fitted speaker. It seems sensible that Bachmann are already highlighting the need to set up a decoder and in time I’m fairly sure that sound decoders from the likes of legomanbiffo for example will be ready to fit once they have a model in hand to be able to set up correctly for use with the servo. 

 

I’m fed up of the price moaners, look at all Hobbies and costs of luxury items - they have all gone up significantly over the last 10 years. And try running any leisure/service/retail/manufacturing SME business for yourself then you would appreciate the actual costs involved.

 

Looking forward to this coming out.

 

cheers

Mark

[Patriot87003]

Bachmann have released an article with more information about the forthcoming Class 90 and decoder ...

 

http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2019/04/class-90-decoder-36-569/

 

I’m hoping they arrive in time for my birthday at the end of May!

[WolfofBadenoch]

Got an email from Rails this morning containing the information, with prices for the loco but not the decoder.

 

I plan to get an inter-city version (slightly after my layout date but rule 1........), and planned to get a sound chip from Legomanbiffo. Now i have to decide whether to wait for Biffo to get a chip up and running or just buy Bachmann's decoder. I was prepared to use 'any decoder' lying about while waiting but now it looks like i'll have to buy 2 decoders if i want immediate running and then sound.

 

Anybody have any idea whether the decoder would then be usable on other locos after i get a sound chip?

[37081LochLong]

I got that email from Rails too, but if you go to their site they have the price listed at £33.95

[sorabain]

On 25/04/2019 at 12:13, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

All it's doing is separating those who can afford Toy trains, and thus have no hope of being a serious modeller and those who buy the all-bells-and-whistles version of a loco, who will always be able to afford it.

 

 

Many of the elite modellers are those who have taken old models and detailed them to superior standards.

 

You could argue that if you always buy the best models then you have no hope of being a serious modeller (nothing to practice on)

 

I've been waiting for this class 90 to save having to do surgery on older class 90 models, even following well-worn paths taken by previous "serious" modellers who did the research to find out the best donor chassis or set about building super-detailing kits etc. 

 

I think this makes me a shy modeller rather than a serious one. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by sorabain
typo

[James Makin]

14 minutes ago, sorabain said:

 

Many of the elite modellers are those who have taken old models and detailed them to superior standards.

 

You could argue that if you always buy the best models then you have no hope of being a serious modeller (nothing to practice on)

 

I've been waiting for this class 90 to save having to do surgery on older class 90 models, even following well-worn paths taken by previous "serious" modellers who did the research to find out the best donor chassis or set about building super-detailing kits etc. 

 

I think this makes me a shy modeller rather than a serious one. 

 

 

 

I think it’s also a ‘money vs effort & time’ piece as well, over the years I’ve taken over a dozen or more Class 90s from Hornby trainset spec to “superdetail” (how last-century does that phrase sound now!) standard and then ripped the guts out for Heljan Hymek running gear, and now you can buy all this readymade for say £180, including lighting and the ability to move the pantograph too....that’s not bad when you think about literally the hours and hours it takes to do the work! 

 

Of course the danger is with the new-found ability to move the pantograph remotely - you go to a show and every Bachmann ‘90’ operator will now inexplicably be pulling their pants down now just because they can! 

[ThaneofFife]

it does add nicely to the play factor.....I only really want one 90 anyway so will cough up the £180.   not fussed about sound as I dont think the 90 had a particularly memorable choon to play anyway......….nothing like an 87 or a Roarer.

 

think for this one I might make a rare road trip to Sheffield or Widnes and have my 90 prefitted and demo'ed for me.

[298]

4 hours ago, James Makin said:

 

I think it’s also a ‘money vs effort & time’ piece as well, over the years I’ve taken over a dozen or more Class 90s from Hornby trainset spec to “superdetail” (how last-century does that phrase sound now!) standard and then ripped the guts out for Heljan Hymek running gear, and now you can buy all this readymade for say £180, including lighting and the ability to move the pantograph too....that’s not bad when you think about literally the hours and hours it takes to do the work! 

 

Of course the danger is with the new-found ability to move the pantograph remotely - you go to a show and every Bachmann ‘90’ operator will now inexplicably be pulling their pants down now just because they can! 

 

Every now and then a model comes out that seems to flood onto Exhibition layouts, to the point of where you wonder how they managed beforehand- the Bachmann 08 in OO and the Dapol 14xx and Autocoach in N quickly spring to mind. But that doesn't mean that previous modelling attempts should be retired, my 90's were only developed as far as having a second power bogie all wheel pickup as I never got as far as yours, they were all detailed and the first one I did (90027 in ICML) also had a Pan raising/drop mechanism.

 

I was slightly bothered that I'd pictured brand new Bachmann 90's flooding the exhibition circuit, but then I remembered that any layout that could legitimately use one and display it's pan up mechanism is probably worth a look for me anyway (or all those diesel shed layouts are going to be resurrected as modelled on an open day with a 90 as a special visitor). Just as long as it isn't expected to be the norm from now on, I do hear occasional comments when exhibiting my HO Interurban layout that the trolley pole equipped models ought to have a similar mechanism to raise and lower the poles but that has the added complexity of having to move from side to side when raising in order to hit the wire.  

[298]

5 hours ago, sorabain said:

 

Many of the elite modellers are those who have taken old models and detailed them to superior standards.

 

You could argue that if you always buy the best models then you have no hope of being a serious modeller (nothing to practice on)

 

I've been waiting for this class 90 to save having to do surgery on older class 90 models, even following well-worn paths taken by previous "serious" modellers who did the research to find out the best donor chassis or set about building super-detailing kits etc. 

 

I think this makes me a shy modeller rather than a serious one. 

 

 

 

If everyone waited for the correct model to come out, nobody would build anything and where's the fun in that? Don't forget that we are nearly 20 years into next level models without pancake motors, and the 90 still isn't quite here yet. Manufacturetailers seem to be going down the route of producing more obscure or unheard of locos in a multitude of prototypical liveries instead of focusing on prototypes, so there may be a few locos that will never be the subject of a loco to modern RTR standards and might be worth a punt should you wish to try to scratchbash something- 89001, E1000/E2001, Tommy, Class 84 Loadbank spring to mind for electrics.

 

And although the cost of the improved chassis for James' fleet is a considerable sum, just think of the cost to replace that many outright with Bachmann models, alot of my Hornby ones were brought for £15-25 all those years ago, with probably not much more again for scratchbuilding materials, a Hurst models pan, paint & transfers, etc. to detail them. Time didn't seem to be an issue back then because I'd do a few at a time and once you learnt what to do, it was a fairly quick process.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

it does add nicely to the play factor.....I only really want one 90 anyway so will cough up the £180.   not fussed about sound as I dont think the 90 had a particularly memorable choon to play anyway......….nothing like an 87 or a Roarer.

 

think for this one I might make a rare road trip to Sheffield or Widnes and have my 90 prefitted and demo'ed for me.

So i read this two hours ago...

decided to look up a class 90 sound on Youtube, then class 86’s.

i then found myself looking at 87002 in Paddington, started looking up tomorrows HST diagrams to Pad (none - is that a 1st ?), followed by Westerns in Paddington in 1977. After 30 minutes of d1015 on various railtours, I ended up drawn to 5043+70013 double heading before landing back into this page.

[No Decorum]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So i read this two hours ago...

decided to look up a class 90 sound on Youtube, then class 86’s.

i then found myself looking at 87002 in Paddington, started looking up tomorrows HST diagrams to Pad (none - is that a 1st ?), followed by Westerns in Paddington in 1977. After 30 minutes of d1015 on various railtours, I ended up drawn to 5043+70013 double heading before landing back into this page.

YouTube does that to me too. I end up watching some varied stuff: some bizarre, some informative, some even railway related. I’m glad to know I’m not alone. 

[JSpencer]

11 hours ago, 298 said:

 

Every now and then a model comes out that seems to flood onto Exhibition layouts, to the point of where you wonder how they managed beforehand- the Bachmann 08 in OO and the Dapol 14xx and Autocoach in N quickly spring to mind. But that doesn't mean that previous modelling attempts should be retired, my 90's were only developed as far as having a second power bogie all wheel pickup as I never got as far as yours, they were all detailed and the first one I did (90027 in ICML) also had a Pan raising/drop mechanism.

 

 

 

I have a theory that we are looking for a unique WOW factor loco for our layouts but few have the time, skills, patience to do there own. To be a WOW it needs to be either something different or something state of the art (this 90 and the forthcoming 92s).

The problem is that when it appears in RTR, it is not really unique, so WOW becomes short lived until the next release. On the other hand, my kit built W1 still creates a WOW factor some 20+ years after it was built. And I find that something you built, detailed up yourself can in the long run be more gratifying. Even if it time and expense is greater than off the shelf.