Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

[Crewlisle]

wombatofludham

Posted Thursday at 12:45

All this talk about the pantograph, I wonder if those who have spoken to Bachmann about the servo fitted jobby know if it is possible to fix the pan in one position permanently?  I'm planning scenic OHLE and most definitely don't want the pan rubbing the wires otherwise it'll snag when transitioning from the fiddle yard, so was planning to fix the pan just below contact wire height.  Obviously that is doable with dummy pans, but this servo powered one is a different mackerel filled steam loco altogether.  If an "approved" DCC sound chip is fitted and the servo function is maintained, is the height adjustable or does it keep going until it reaches it's full height?  I wonder how much force the pantograph will exert on any catenary?

 

I have had portable scratchbuilt catenary on the 'WCML' of my 00 gauge layout Crewlisle for the last 30 years.  The continuous run mainline enters tunnels at each end of the viewing section.  The pantographs are touching the catenary wire and where they enter the tunnels under the high level section, the wire has to rise about 10mm as in the tunnels the catenary wire is just 1.5mm steel wire secured to the underside of the high level for the pantograph to scrape against.  All I have done is made special end  sections for the wire to gently rise up.  You should have no problem doing something similar over the last 200mm of your fiddle yard as my electrics are doing a scale speed of about 80 - 100 mph when entering the tunnels.  I have never had any problems over the last 30 years.  See attachments.

 

.Catenary Wires.pdf

CATENARY INSIDE TUNNELS.docx

 

 

[Br60066]

Do we have any more clues as to when the class 90’s will arrive?

[Crewlisle]

It appears that there is more interest in catenary than I thought with 36 downloads of my attachments.  My philosophy has always been, 'If you have an AC electric loco, raise the pantograph & let it touch the catenary wire'.  The attachments are modified from my article which appeared in Model Rail 5 years ago (before Peco OLE was introduced).  All the catenary is portable.  Not to scale but looks good from normal viewing distance.

 

CATENARY - BRM.doc

Catenary Masts.pdf

pdfCatenary Wires.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Crewlisle
Cannot delete photo captions. Catenary document in wrong place.

[Markwj]

9 hours ago, Br60066 said:

Do we have any more clues as to when the class 90’s will arrive?

It was indicated they were at sea or about to ship on the 5th march so maybe they should be here by now although I wonder if Bachmann are waiting for th chip to arrive and release the two together to avoid servo burn outs.

['CHARD]

1 hour ago, Markwj said:

It was indicated they were at sea or about to ship on the 5th march so maybe they should be here by now although I wonder if Bachmann are waiting for th chip to arrive and release the two together to avoid servo burn outs.

 

Not long to wait now!  Excitement builds.... 

[Roy Langridge]

Had a good look at the Bachmann 90 running on the layout at Kernow's new Guildford shop today and it left me feeling rather under-impressed.

 

Now, I am not saying that it is not a very good representation of the real thing. However, when you look at, for example, the amount of roof retail on a Class 92 and what is intended for the models of that, the Class 90 looks a bit, well, boring. There was a discussion recently (Kernow's D600 thread?) about locos having / not having  the wow factor - for me the Bachmann 90 doesn't.

 

Now, the 2-HAP EP that was also there does- and as for the Class 117 EP - wow.

 

Roy

 

[Br60066]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

Had a good look at the Bachmann 90 running on the layout at Kernow's new Guildford shop today and it left me feeling rather under-impressed.

 

Now, I am not saying that it is not a very good representation of the real thing. However, when you look at, for example, the amount of roof retail on a Class 92 and what is intended for the models of that, the Class 90 looks a bit, well, boring. There was a discussion recently (Kernow's D600 thread?) about locos having / not having  the wow factor - for me the Bachmann 90 doesn't.

 

Now, the 2-HAP EP that was also there does- and as for the Class 117 EP - wow.

 

Roy

 

Was this a pre production sample?

['CHARD]

I think it's fair to say that a manufacturer can only practically replicate what is on the prototype.  There's no technical parity between the two prototypes, so to be underwhelmed by one because it's less complex than the other is fair enough, but it's not a reflection of how well the prototype has been captured (perversely it is, of course, exactly that).  The class 90 shown at Kernow is a Production Sample, so to intents and purposes looks like the ones presently at sea.

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

I think it's fair to say that a manufacturer can only practically replicate what is on the prototype.  There's no technical parity between the two prototypes, so to be underwhelmed by one because it's less complex than the other is fair enough, but it's not a reflection of how well the prototype has been captured (perversely it is, of course, exactly that).  The class 90 shown at Kernow is a Production Sample, so to intents and purposes looks like the ones presently at sea.

I appreciate that - as I said it is a very good model. What I saw though did not standout, unlike models of some other prototypes have. 

 

Roy

[YesTor]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Had a good look at the Bachmann 90 running on the layout at Kernow's new Guildford shop today and it left me feeling rather under-impressed.

 

Now, I am not saying that it is not a very good representation of the real thing. However, when you look at, for example, the amount of roof retail on a Class 92 and what is intended for the models of that, the Class 90 looks a bit, well, boring. There was a discussion recently (Kernow's D600 thread?) about locos having / not having  the wow factor - for me the Bachmann 90 doesn't.

 

 

I gotta say I totally agree, and kind of echoes my earlier post (which I think is on Page 26 of this topic).  In fairness though, and with regard to the roof, there is perhaps far less 'gubbins' to replicate on a 90 anyway when compared to a 92, but even so I know what you mean about the whole thing just looking a bit 'sparse' in general detail-wise. 

 

Having looked over the model a few times now I too keep searching for that "Wow factor", and to my eye it simply ain't there.  I'm just dismayed that there has been seemingly little effort to raise the bar in terms of visual appearance when looking at bogie detail (one-piece moulding), underframe detail, body detail (largely one-piece moulding), glazing (thick/bubble appearance), overscale piping/cables etc.  It has all been done before and is seemingly being done by others a notch higher already.  It does seem that all efforts have been directed toward this operating pantograph, while albeit nice, is however to my mind something to flip up-and-down a couple of times on first removal from the box, perhaps gasp "Ooooh, that's fancy!", and then likely never use again - and now we need a "special" decoder just for this one feature - it all seems a bit of a faff really.  And how many times is anyone going to lower and raise the pantograph in any single operating session?   And a pity it all seems to have come at the sacrifice of visual detail.

 

I know that others on this topic will go wild over it and perhaps claim it's Bachmann's best ever model etc, but to my eye in terms of visual appearance the 90 looks very 'average' by current standards.  Good, but by no means raising the bar.  A bit of a shame really, especially considering it's Bachmann's first dip into what is still a current mainline operating electric locomotive, and could have been their opportunity to truly shine.

 

Still, I hope it's a success for Bachmann, and I'll certainly purchase one Class 90, however it's highly unlikely I'll be going for the half-a-dozen models I figured I would originally be doing, especially with so many apparently superior-detailed models on the horizon which are more likely to "wow" the funds from my wallet this season, I'm afraid.

 

Just one observer's viewpoint, as I am sure others will vary...

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by YesTor

[Carl BR]

The IC class 90 is now showing as out of stock on the Bachmann Availability list which I assume means they have gone out to the shops.

The RfD class 90 is still listed for an April release and the FL for May.

[Sir TophamHatt]

I wonder if this "not wow" is because the 90 is older tooling now?

 

The Accurascale 92 for example seems to have been designed in the last 6 months and it's already into engineering prototype production.

 

Wasn't the 90 announced years ago (and I assume CAD drawn back then?).  As technology is pushed further, quicker, even something that was done 5 years ago could be classed as "old" now.

[The Ghost of IKB]

I think that this is all about managing our expectations. Bachmann have never afaik produced any game changing or definitive models.  Almost always new models have been an improvement on what was there before, but never have been  'game changers'.  Now other manufacturers are raising detail levels beyond what Bachmann seem prepared to do, and so as our expectations rise as we see what can be done, we feel a little disappointed that Bachmann don't meet the standards set by others,...... whilst still being happy to match prices that is.

Edited May 6, 2019 by The Ghost of IKB

[jjb1970]

I think it is more that the Class 90 itself is a locomotive which doesn't lend itself to the WOW factor in model form. Quite a clean and tidy design lacking in the protuberances and clutter which allow model manufacturers to load up on fancy added bits and photo etched finery etc. In 1:1 scale I tend to prefer the clean and tidiness of a design like the Class 90. I don't think it is because of model obsolescence as I have models made 30 years ago that still ooze wow factor. 

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

I think that this is all about managing our expectations. Bachmann have never afaik produced any game changing or definitive models.  Almost always new models have been an improvement on what was there before, but never have been  'game changers'.  Now other manufacturers are raising detail levels beyond what Bachmann seem prepared to do, and so as our expectations rise as we see what can be done, we feel a little disappointed that Bachmann don't meet the standards set by others,...... whilst still being happy to match prices that is.

 

I'm not sure, thats a pretty harsh statement - what would you define as game changing or definitive models - Prototype Deltic? Blue Pullman? Class 85? Mark 2F? Freightliner FGA/FFAs? Wickham Trolley? Can you see other manufacturers looking to improve on their 1st Gen DMUs or Class 150s?

 

they might have some faults, but they set the bar pretty high for improving on

[rencar12]

Does anyone know when the new Bachmann Class 90's and decoder are due to be available/start shipping?

 

Thanks

[The Ghost of IKB]

3 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

I'm not sure, thats a pretty harsh statement - what would you define as game changing or definitive models - Prototype Deltic? Blue Pullman? Class 85? Mark 2F? Freightliner FGA/FFAs? Wickham Trolley? Can you see other manufacturers looking to improve on their 1st Gen DMUs or Class 150s?

 

they might have some faults, but they set the bar pretty high for improving on

All those you list are very good models, but definitive? I'm not so sure.  Admittedly I'm biased as my modelling era is 70s and early 80s and I have to put up with Bach 24 25 37 40 and 55, all which to my eyes are relatively poor.  For me the benchmark models are the apt-e, Sutton 24,  and the accurascale wagons.  Rather than being just very good, these set new standards.  

[David12]

2 hours ago, rencar12 said:

Does anyone know when the new Bachmann Class 90's and decoder are due to be available/start shipping?

 

Thanks

Spoke to staff on the Bachmann stand at the Bristol exhibition yesterday and they insisted that all variants will be available "this month". Also spoke to DC Kits about the availability of a Legomanbiffo ESU sound decoder and got a VERY interesting account as to why there has been significant further delay to the release of the models and why Bachmann aren't producing a sound decoder (despite the model being pre-fitted with a speaker) for the foreseeable future. I would print what I was told, but it could be interpreted as libellous. Suffice to say that Zimo do not have a suitable sound decoder and DC Kits will have just as soon as they can lay their hands on a Bachmann Class 90 to configure the  Loksound V5 decoder ...

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

All those you list are very good models, but definitive? I'm not so sure.  Admittedly I'm biased as my modelling era is 70s and early 80s and I have to put up with Bach 24 25 37 40 and 55, all which to my eyes are relatively poor.  For me the benchmark models are the apt-e, Sutton 24,  and the accurascale wagons.  Rather than being just very good, these set new standards.  

 

You're comparing new models to older ones that are getting on for twenty years old.

 

When those Bachmann models originally came out they were every bit as jaw dropping as the new ones are. Probably more so as all you had previously were Lima and Hornby models from the 1970s and '80s.

 

 

Jason

[Markwj]

30 minutes ago, David12 said:

Spoke to staff on the Bachmann stand at the Bristol exhibition yesterday and they insisted that all variants will be available "this month". Also spoke to DC Kits about the availability of a Legomanbiffo ESU sound decoder and got a VERY interesting account as to why there has been significant further delay to the release of the models and why Bachmann aren't producing a sound decoder (despite the model being pre-fitted with a speaker) for the foreseeable future. I would print what I was told, but it could be interpreted as libellous. Suffice to say that Zimo do not have a suitable sound decoder and DC Kits will have just as soon as they can lay their hands on a Bachmann Class 90 to configure the  Loksound V5 decoder ...

You can't make a statement like that then not tell us!

[wombatofludham]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

All those you list are very good models, but definitive? I'm not so sure.  Admittedly I'm biased as my modelling era is 70s and early 80s and I have to put up with Bach 24 25 37 40 and 55, all which to my eyes are relatively poor.  For me the benchmark models are the apt-e, Sutton 24,  and the accurascale wagons.  Rather than being just very good, these set new standards.  

The Class 85 was a truly definitive model as it helped destroy the myth that "ac electrics don't sell".  It didn't have some of the flaws of the original Heljan 86/2 which was such a near miss and could have killed any further models stone dead, and it almost certainly persuaded Hornby to come forth and dip a toe into the water with the 87, Bachmann to move onto the Class 90 and even gave Heljan who arguably could have legitimately sat on their hands, a boost to bring forth an AL6.  Add in the Accurascale 92 and the Cavalex 91, and you have a legacy from one risk-taking model punt that trumps anything else - even the Sutton 24 is revisiting, albeit to a higher class, an existing model.  The 85 was truly ground breaking and created pretty much a whole new market now coming to maturity.

 

All we need now is for Bachmann to do the same magic with an AM10 unit.

[MRDBLUE17]

I totally agree I bought an 85 when it first came out as it was a superb model at the time. The first really decent electric loco. It was really a bit early for my modelling needs and I only remember seeing the odd one in service in the late 80’s but just like my Hornby 86 I bought myself aged about 6 over 30 years ago it had the same interest for me. I’m looking forward the 90 as I think Bachmann have captured it very well with some nice detailing. If you think about the real thing it doesn’t have the same appeal as some locos so I get Roys point of view about wow factor but the model itself captures the real thing perfectly. The Freightliner is top of my list and I hope for a DB/Malcolm/EWS livery in the future for a double headed pairing.

 

cheers

Mark

[GordonC]

20 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

All those you list are very good models, but definitive? I'm not so sure.  Admittedly I'm biased as my modelling era is 70s and early 80s and I have to put up with Bach 24 25 37 40 and 55, all which to my eyes are relatively poor.  For me the benchmark models are the apt-e, Sutton 24,  and the accurascale wagons.  Rather than being just very good, these set new standards.  

 

I think they'll be definitive in terms of I cant see other manufacturers attempting to improve on them or certainly not for many years if they do. Another example would be the Polybulks

 

I do take your point that there are varying standards in the Bachmann range, but I think standards have generally improved and those your ones listed will be largely earlier models rather than the more recent ones they've been tooling up. Admittedly the Class 40 was re-tooled a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the Bachmann Class 24/25 had a 'wow' factor when we first saw that in comparison with Lima equivalents at the time.

 

Will we ever get a 'definitive' Class 37 and 47 though, for example? With the sheer numbers of locos, liveries and geographical spread there is almost always scope for another manufacturer wanting a slice of the pie and finding fault with existing.

[Sir TophamHatt]

18 hours ago, David12 said:

I would print what I was told, but it could be interpreted as libellous.

 

Unless you're going to share, I find it's best not to say anything at all.

 

The whole "I know something you don't know" never ends well.

['CHARD]

53 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I'm pretty sure the Bachmann Class 24/25 had a 'wow' factor when we first saw that in comparison with Lima equivalents at the time.

 

 

They really did, as nothing ever produced by the Italian team bore much resemblance to the BR-Sulzer Type 2.