Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

[Roy Langridge]

I agree that Bachmann have brought us a good number of "wow" inducing models over the years, and I believe they still can and will. The Class 90 is, to be brutally honest, a fairly bland loco and any model that accurately captures that will be equally bland. I made the comment that it didn't have the wow factor and it doesn't. However, on reflection, that is a good thing. What we don't want is that manufacturers to only look at prototypes that are able to wow and ignore the more mundane that are not quite to visually stunning.

 

Roy

[newbryford]

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 22:15, Roy Langridge said:

Had a good look at the Bachmann 90 running on the layout at Kernow's new Guildford shop today and it left me feeling rather under-impressed.

 

Now, I am not saying that it is not a very good representation of the real thing. However, when you look at, for example, the amount of roof retail on a Class 92 and what is intended for the models of that, the Class 90 looks a bit, well, boring. There was a discussion recently (Kernow's D600 thread?) about locos having / not having  the wow factor - for me the Bachmann 90 doesn't.

 

Now, the 2-HAP EP that was also there does- and as for the Class 117 EP - wow.

 

Roy

 

 

Maybe because the 90 has quite an uncluttered roof when compared to a 92.

 

90029 yesterday at Leeds.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

 

 

[Roy Langridge]

46 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Maybe because the 90 has quite an uncluttered roof when compared to a 92.

 

90029 yesterday at Leeds.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Mick, I acknowledged that by my statement "I am not saying that it is not a very good representation of the real thing" - all I was saying is that for me it is not a loco with wow factor. When released I don't see people standing at exhibition halls getting excited over it as has been / will be the case with some other models, some of them from Bachmann. The steam crane, for example, I think will have people drooling over it when it makes an appearance.

Roy

['CHARD]

8 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The steam crane, for example, I think will have people drooling over it when it makes an appearance.

 

Especially when hauled by the Class 90.... 

[JDW]

Reading some of the recent comments, I can see where people are coming from regarding the "wow" factor.  On the one hand, this is a fantastic model, very well designed and detailed, yet on the other it didn't make me go "wow" in the same way as the Hornby Peckett did (and I'm a diesel/electric modeller, not a steam fan).  I would suggest that that is because we have become used to models like this, finely detailed models of everyday prototypes, so it takes much more to make us take a step back and fully appreciate it. 

I think that goes some way to showing how good things have gotten, in that like many recent releases this model is exquisite and yet that standard is pretty much taken for granted now.  It's a great reflection on how far the hobby has moved on in the last decade or so.  

[YesTor]

On 06/05/2019 at 09:45, Sir TophamHatt said:

I wonder if this "not wow" is because the 90 is older tooling now?

 

The Accurascale 92 for example seems to have been designed in the last 6 months and it's already into engineering prototype production.

 

Wasn't the 90 announced years ago (and I assume CAD drawn back then?).  As technology is pushed further, quicker, even something that was done 5 years ago could be classed as "old" now.

 

Absolutely, and I guess highlights another risk of announcing models several years prior to release in that the potential is there for any such model to be 'obsolete before it even hits the shelf'...

 

 

On 06/05/2019 at 10:15, The Ghost of IKB said:

I think that this is all about managing our expectations. Bachmann have never afaik produced any game changing or definitive models.  Almost always new models have been an improvement on what was there before, but never have been  'game changers'.  Now other manufacturers are raising detail levels beyond what Bachmann seem prepared to do, and so as our expectations rise as we see what can be done, we feel a little disappointed that Bachmann don't meet the standards set by others,...... whilst still being happy to match prices that is.

 

On 06/05/2019 at 10:19, jjb1970 said:

I think it is more that the Class 90 itself is a locomotive which doesn't lend itself to the WOW factor in model form. Quite a clean and tidy design lacking in the protuberances and clutter which allow model manufacturers to load up on fancy added bits and photo etched finery etc.

 

4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

The Class 90 is, to be brutally honest, a fairly bland loco and any model that accurately captures that will be equally bland.

 

4 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Maybe because the 90 has quite an uncluttered roof when compared to a 92.

 

 

I figure that there have been some truly fantastic models from Bachmann - Blue Pullman at the time was considered pretty cutting-edge (and rightly so IMHO); the Class 350 was also pretty 'wow factor' too if I recall; so too the Polybulks and to my mind the JJA auto-ballasters were/are all top-notch; the forthcoming steam crane, and I am sure that there are others too. 

 

The Class 90 however, hmmmm, just nowhere near, and I don't in any way swallow this line of thinking that because the prototype might be considered rather 'bland' by design that the model should follow suit - in fact if anything, all the more reason to focus on the areas/details that are there and that modellers' eyes will be drawn to - including much-needed improvements to what are essentially universal elements to any model (bland design or otherwise), such as bogies, glazing, and even seemingly minor details such as cables and pipework that are actually to scale can be applied even to the most mundane-looking machine.  None of these things appear to have even been considered on the 90. 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by YesTor

[AY Mod]

21 minutes ago, YesTor said:

obsolete before it even hits the shelf

 

Even by RMweb standards this is utterly bizarre; few people have handled one and tried the functions, yet some are prepared to consign it to history. 

[66738]

6 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

I think they'll be definitive in terms of I cant see other manufacturers attempting to improve on them or certainly not for many years if they do. Another example would be the Polybulks

 

I do take your point that there are varying standards in the Bachmann range, but I think standards have generally improved and those your ones listed will be largely earlier models rather than the more recent ones they've been tooling up. Admittedly the Class 40 was re-tooled a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the Bachmann Class 24/25 had a 'wow' factor when we first saw that in comparison with Lima equivalents at the time.

 

Will we ever get a 'definitive' Class 37 and 47 though, for example? With the sheer numbers of locos, liveries and geographical spread there is almost always scope for another manufacturer wanting a slice of the pie and finding fault with existing.

Agree, when the Bachmann class 25 came out, I was very happy with it. The looks were always quite convincing on the Hornby model but the running quality could have been better. The Bachmann example ran well, had the looks (I know it’s not perfect but it’s not bad) and most importantly it was the 25/3 variant.

The definitive 37 or 47  that was perfect in every way would be great. BUT would I start again with my numerous fleets? I’m not sure. The Bachmann 37 and 47 with detail are fine for me. I’ve got so many, it would be costly even if they priced them reasonably like Hattons have with the 66’s, and would they bang the different livery’s out like Hattons 66 or would they take their time, meaning I’d have to run both Bachmann and the Newcomer at the same time. It’s so obvious that what is out there is not perfect and a better model could be produced. It’s been talked about for years, so everyone knows but yet nobody has gone for it. Why is that? 

Back on topic, I think the 90 looks a huge improvement over the aging Hornby version, and just like the 85, if I could justify one I would, but I can’t so unfortunately won’t.

66738

Edited May 7, 2019 by 66738

[YesTor]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Even by RMweb standards this is utterly bizarre; few people have handled one and tried the functions, yet some are prepared to consign it to history. 

 

Hmmm, I see your point, although with the greatest respect my comment was supposed to be more tongue-in-cheek as opposed to being taken literally, hence 'obsolete' instead of simply, obsolete -  I appreciate that irony rarely translates well via e-comms.

 

cheers

Al

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by YesTor

[adb968008]

Ive seen the 90 and i’m quite excited by it.

if anyone thinks its predecessor is comparable i’m amazed.

 

ive been somewhat critical of duplication, especially those duplicating those made since year 2000, but the old 90 really is a toy.

 

take a look around your layout, weve had mk2E, / f /mk3’s, an new 87 to with the Heljan 86 and Bachmann 85, and a new 86, 91 and 92 to come... are you sure you want that lot running with a 1988 white plastic Hornby class 90 ?

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[James Makin]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive seen the 90 and i’m quite excited by it.

if anyone thinks its predecessor is comparable i’m amazed.

 

ive been somewhat critical of duplication, especially those duplicating those made since year 2000, but the old 90 really is a toy.

 

take a look around your layout, weve had mk2E, / f /mk3’s, an new 87 to with the Heljan 86 and Bachmann 85, and a new 86, 91 and 92 to come... are you sure you want that lot running with a 1988 white plastic Hornby class 90 ?

 

I was going to say, getting worried I was a complete saddo as I’m very excited by the Bachmann 90 coming out!

 

For me, the model came alive when the first painted samples were displayed, the model ‘pops’ and the detailing around the lights is exquisite.

 

I look forward to studying it in detail and starting work on the first customised versions, for me, 90013 ‘The Law Society’ in Intercity Swallow, special to me as it’s one I badly painted in one of my first ever resprays on the Hornby model with a dodgy kids £9.99 Badger airbrush and some wonkily applied Railmatch lining tape - be great to do it justice this time around!

 

So many opportunities await with EWS, RES and Virgin repaints in the coming years! Pair that up with the Hornby 87s and Accurascale 92s...modern AC modelling is back in style! 

 

Cheers,

James

[YesTor]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive seen the 90 and i’m quite excited by it.

 

if anyone thinks its predecessor is comparable i’m amazed.

 

I don't think for one moment that anyone is comparing Bachmann's 90 with the Hornby predecessor?  My comments are/were based on immediate visual impact of the new 90, nothing more, nothing less.  Appreciated that there will be a few more 'gizmos' on the Bachmann model that we may not have seen anywhere else before - operable pantograph, roof-accessible decoder etc etc - all very nice of course - but as I mentioned earlier, it's a pity that these appear to be coming at the expense of advancement in detail/fidelity.  Personally I'd rather pay the asking price for detail that I can see all of the time, as opposed to gizmos that I will rarely use.  No doubt others will prefer the gizmos... each to his own etc...

[Br60066]

21 minutes ago, James Makin said:

 

I was going to say, getting worried I was a complete saddo as I’m very excited by the Bachmann 90 coming out!

 

For me, the model came alive when the first painted samples were displayed, the model ‘pops’ and the detailing around the lights is exquisite.

 

I look forward to studying it in detail and starting work on the first customised versions, for me, 90013 ‘The Law Society’ in Intercity Swallow, special to me as it’s one I badly painted in one of my first ever resprays on the Hornby model with a dodgy kids £9.99 Badger airbrush and some wonkily applied Railmatch lining tape - be great to do it justice this time around!

 

So many opportunities await with EWS, RES and Virgin repaints in the coming years! Pair that up with the Hornby 87s and Accurascale 92s...modern AC modelling is back in style! 

 

Cheers,

James

Just wish they would come out already  :p. All jokes aside I think it’s best they take their time and produce a good model than rush and have problems later 

[wombatofludham]

10 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

The steam crane, for example, I think will have people drooling over it when it makes an appearance.

Roy

A few possibly. with many more drowning out any drooly reaction with their wailing over the price or lack of functionality.  Me?  It'll certainly have the "wow" factor in that I'll be saying "wow, I'm saving so much not buying the crane, I can afford a second rake of Mk2fs"

What I've seen of the photos the 90 is a cracking model and with a bit of weathering, and a renumber/rename to "BBC Midlands Today" (I once appeared on the programme in a feature item so it'll be a vanity naming) it'll mean two Hornby intercity 90s going on the Bay of Thief to hopefully be enjoyed by modellers who can't afford the new model or who prefer tatting around with a cheap Hornby model to bring it up to scratch, so everyone wins in a way.

[AY Mod]

8 hours ago, YesTor said:

it's a pity that these appear to be coming at the expense of advancement in detail/fidelity. 

 

An example of which is? 

[woodenhead]

9 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

I don't think for one moment that anyone is comparing Bachmann's 90 with the Hornby predecessor?  My comments are/were based on immediate visual impact of the new 90, nothing more, nothing less.  Appreciated that there will be a few more 'gizmos' on the Bachmann model that we may not have seen anywhere else before - operable pantograph, roof-accessible decoder etc etc - all very nice of course - but as I mentioned earlier, it's a pity that these appear to be coming at the expense of advancement in detail/fidelity.  Personally I'd rather pay the asking price for detail that I can see all of the time, as opposed to gizmos that I will rarely use.  No doubt others will prefer the gizmos... each to his own etc...

I think we're at the pinnacle of refinement and fidelity when it comes to bodies, there isn't much between manufacturers these days (errors excepted).

 

I am pleased that Bachmann are putting in new gizmos like the lifting pantograph - it means electric locos are finally being taken seriously - 92 from Accurascale, 91 from Cavalex, 90 from Bachmann, 87 from Hornby, 86 from Heljan and 85 from Bachmann.  We are firmly on a road to seeing the 81-84 locos and with the 319 in planning maybe soon a 304/310 rtr.

 

Tis a pity I don't have the space, I think my ideal layout will be possible soon.

[sorabain]

For me the best "wow" factor is a realistic overall layout where it all blends in and is operated prototypically. I admit that something like the steam crane will have something of a "wow factor", but only fleetingly. I imagine the steam crane will only hold my attention for a few minutes. I couldn't watch it go round and round for any length of time without getting bored; whereas a solid modern image layout can have me there for hours without any single item having to stand out. The class 90s will serve many a layout extremely well as an essential piece of the greater experience. 

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

An example of which is? 

I’m guessing his comments on bogie detail but as you allude to there has to be compromise for robustness so how far can we go before we want scale thickness metal body’s that we can’t touch as they’d  dent as soon as we touched them!  

I think you need to like 90’s to get the wow factor and I certainly get it compared to my old Hornby one. I remember the announcement of these in Railnews as 87/2’s, before class 90 was allocated to them! , when they used to put drawings in there. My Grandad, a guard, always saved up the drawings for me

Purely because of that I’ve always liked the 90’s. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by PaulRhB

[Sir TophamHatt]

17 hours ago, YesTor said:

Hmmm, I see your point

 

I wonder if it's the limited appeal electric locos have too?

 

I don't see many layouts with overhead wires or locos.

 

However, the delay has sort of come with a boom in electric locos of that time, what with the 91 and 92 on the way too.  I hope they're all a success!

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

I’m guessing his comments on bogie detail but as you allude to there has to be compromise for robustness so how far can we go before we want scale thickness metal body’s that we can’t touch as they’d  dent as soon as we touched them!  

I think you need to like 90’s to get the wow factor and I certainly get it compared to my old Hornby one. I remember the announcement of these in Railnews as 87/2’s, before class 90 was allocated to them! , when they used to put drawings in there. My Grandad, a guard, always saved up the drawings for me

Purely because of that I’ve always liked the 90’s. 

I have 87201 written in the margins and underlined in my 1987 platform 5.

I saw it at Crewe Works openday that July.

[brushman47544]

Perhaps it depends on your wider railway interests, one of mine being loco haulage. So for me "wow" is at least in part associated with whether any loco for haulage could be considered rare (i.e. freight locos) or not. I'd happily let trains with 90001-90015 go in favour of anything else, but I'd leap for a Railfreight liveried one. So passenger train associated Class 90s have no 'wow' factor for me.

[298]

4 hours ago, sorabain said:

For me the best "wow" factor is a realistic overall layout where it all blends in and is operated prototypically. I admit that something like the steam crane will have something of a "wow factor", but only fleetingly. I imagine the steam crane will only hold my attention for a few minutes. I couldn't watch it go round and round for any length of time without getting bored; whereas a solid modern image layout can have me there for hours without any single item having to stand out. The class 90s will serve many a layout extremely well as an essential piece of the greater experience. 

 

This is where a 90 (That figured highly in wish list polls) wouldn't get many impulse buys, compared to the way manufacturers have changed to respond to the market by producing something someone wouldn't necessarily ask for or has already but would buy, such as a Crane or Railgun. You still need the big two to produce the run of the mill items where one of the newer companies wouldn't bother.

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Perhaps it depends on your wider railway interests, one of mine being loco haulage. So for me "wow" is at least in part associated with whether any loco for haulage could be considered rare (i.e. freight locos) or not. I'd happily let trains with 90001-90015 go in favour of anything else, but I'd leap for a Railfreight liveried one. So passenger train associated Class 90s have no 'wow' factor for me.

And the difference between an Intercity 90 and a Railfreight 90 when sat in a mk3 coach would be?

[brushman47544]

Just now, woodenhead said:

And the difference between an Intercity 90 and a Railfreight 90 when sat in a mk3 coach would be?

Rarety value for haulage.

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, 298 said:

 

This is where a 90 (That figured highly in wish list polls) wouldn't get many impulse buys, compared to the way manufacturers have changed to respond to the market by producing something someone wouldn't necessarily ask for or has already but would buy, such as a Crane or Railgun. You still need the big two to produce the run of the mill items where one of the newer companies wouldn't bother.

The crane and railgun being a sign that most of the big stuff has been covered already and they needed something new to tempt us with.

 

Which is why people were scratching their heads at the apparent lack of modern standard electrics, they make up so much of the network but would be looked over time and again for another 47, 37 etc.

 

Times they are a changing