Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

[adb968008]

11 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Rarety value for haulage.

Not really.

 

rfd 90’s worked passenger stock all the time. (Same too for RES 90’s).

indeed this weekend passed I saw two Freightliner 90’s on the sleeper, and an ex-RFD (still in TTG) was on the sleeper a few months back when I was at Preston, and a DB 90 has been on mk4’s diagrams for as long as I can remember, 90029 is doing this week currently (saw that Saturday too), there’s a picture of it on the previous page. That 90 diagram will continue until Azumas appear, as two 91’s have been on bricks for quite some time (one literally is without bogies).

 

A 90 is as 90 does, paint is irrelevant.  The only rare 90 I can think of in recent memory would be an Anglia 90 on anything other than Anglia work... next post someone will pop up a picture of one i’m sure.

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[298]

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I’m guessing his comments on bogie detail but as you allude to there has to be compromise for robustness so how far can we go before we want scale thickness metal body’s that we can’t touch as they’d  dent as soon as we touched them!  

I think you need to like 90’s to get the wow factor and I certainly get it compared to my old Hornby one. I remember the announcement of these in Railnews as 87/2’s, before class 90 was allocated to them! , when they used to put drawings in there. My Grandad, a guard, always saved up the drawings for me

Purely because of that I’ve always liked the 90’s. 

 

The bodyside ripples were noticeable from new and quite capable of being scanned using modern technologies, but I doubt we'll ever see models with such deformities....

 

As a teenage trainspotter I was used to seeing successive new builds and renumberings in the mid 1980s, but the 90s stood out for me because of their styling when compared to the development of the Roarers through to the 87s. That's probably why I ended up with too many Hornby ones and did consider saving up to preserve one....

 

 

[brushman47544]

2 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Not really.

 

rfd 90’s worked passenger stock all the time.

indeed this weekend passed I saw two Freightliner 90’s on the sleeper, and an ex-RFD was on the sleeper a few months back when I was at Preston, and a DB 90 has been on mk4’s diagrams for as long as I can remember, 90026 is doing this week currently (saw that Saturday too), there’s a picture of it on the previous page.

 

A 90 is as 90 does.

That's now, not when the 90s first started appearing on the WCML. When introduced the Railfreight 90s started out as any user, but this was known to be short lived so it was get them while you can. Things changed of course later but we didn't know that then.

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

That's now, not when the 90s first started appearing on the WCML. When introduced the Railfreight 90s started out as any user, but this was known to be short lived so it was get them while you can. Things changed of course later but we didn't know that then.

I must have been unlucky then, I almost never had an Intercity 90 when travelling home from Uni in the mid-late 90’s... then again Euston trains weren’t my thing, but at the grimy end of the WCML RFD 90’s around Piccadilly were common, certainly until they got 90/1 numbers.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[298]

2 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

I wonder if it's the limited appeal electric locos have too?

 

I don't see many layouts with overhead wires or locos.

 

 

I know. Heretics....  *rollseyes

[298]

19 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And the difference between an Intercity 90 and a Railfreight 90 when sat in a mk3 coach would be?

 

Unless it was in the early days before they lost their Buckeyes and rubbing plates, it's be a bit bouncer because the loco would be coupled using a screw coupling with forces transferred through the buffers when pushing.

 

Sorry, you did ask...

[newbryford]

23 minutes ago, 298 said:

 

The bodyside ripples were noticeable from new and quite capable of being scanned using modern technologies, but I doubt we'll ever see models with such deformities....

 

 

 

 

 

 Somebody once modelled a loco with matching ripples with careful use of wet and dry - it looked totally wrong as a model, but compared well to the prototype.

 

[YesTor]

15 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

An example of which is? 

 

Hmmm, okay, a fair question, although as I'm not sure how appropriate it is to repeat a previous post, so it might be easier to simply refer to my earlier post on Page 26 of this topic, as those previous observations pretty much stand?  What I will add is that I totally appreciate your standpoint that few have actually handled the model as yet, and I totally acknowledge that there are several 'new' features coming on the 90 (at least for a UK electric loco anyhow), so hopefully yourself, and others, can appreciate that I am not simply trying to nitpick for the sake of it - because I think there is a tendency for that perception in general on forums per se. 

 

Even though I may not have handled the model as yet either, it is fair to say that various samples have been on display for a long time now on the exhibition circuit, and as such my viewpoint is based solely on visual appearance/impact.  I guess I am simply a person who appreciates fine detail over what I tend to see as novelty 'features' (eg. swivelling buffers etc) and for some my observations will be considered 'nitpicking', but hey, that's just my viewpoint, which to my mind I still believe to be valid.

 

Hopefully those earlier comments can be appreciated as being conveyed with the intention of being constructive feedback, or at the very least a straightforward observation.

 

cheers

Al

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by YesTor

[YesTor]

5 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I’m guessing his comments on bogie detail but as you allude to there has to be compromise for robustness so how far can we go before we want scale thickness metal body’s that we can’t touch as they’d  dent as soon as we touched them!

 

Bogie detail is a good example - I tend to look at the bogies here and see a one-piece and what seems to be a fairly standard moulding with painted on detail.  I could list other diesels where far more fidelity has been achieved - added extra detail, sharper moulding etc.  Again, small, and to some irrelevant details perhaps, but seeing I was asked what I thought could have perhaps been better, well, that's one example. 

 

 

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I think we're at the pinnacle of refinement and fidelity when it comes to bodies, there isn't much between manufacturers these days (errors excepted).

 

I think with the materials that manufacturers are currently working with then yes, I would perhaps agree that there is little to pick between most.  For me personally, the distinguishable differences tend to come in the form of finer and added detail.  I guess we can reach what might be regarded as a 'pinnacle' for perhaps a short time, but ultimately to remain at any said pinnacle, in any field, would result in remaining stationary, when in reality to advance in any way at all we need to always consider ourselves to be 'transitional'.  With transition comes progress. 

 

Anyhow, this may well be slightly off-topic, or perhaps going deeper than might be required with regard to the Class 90 (!)    , however I tend to feel that any further marked improvements within model manufacturing in general, will likely come in the shape of new materials and methods of production, whereby perhaps even finer and more durable detail can be achieved.  For anyone that watches any of the tech programmes and the like, we can see that new materials are being developed all of the time, and particularly now in the current climate with a seemingly wider view to replacing plastics in general manufacturing.  Indeed, who knows, with the current public attitude toward the use of plastics in general, we may even see a time when we are no longer allowed to use current materials, or at the very least the plastics that we do use may well become taxable in some form, which could in time easily force change.  Some may chuckle at this last point, but who, thirty years ago would have predicted the outlawing of the petrol/diesel engine and the Tungsten lightbulb within our lifetime.  Transition, once again.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by YesTor

[adb968008]

35 minutes ago, 298 said:

 

Unless it was in the early days before they lost their Buckeyes and rubbing plates, it's be a bit bouncer because the loco would be coupled using a screw coupling with forces transferred through the buffers when pushing.

 

Sorry, you did ask...

Or after they got them back., like 90029.. or if they never lost them (some 90’s were rfd but with Push/Pull enabled for rescue work).

 

90’s aren’t always push pull operated... I’ve certainly never seen the sleeper pushed to London.. dbs had the contract for that at one point.

 

My use case was usually on a Birmingham - Manchester working with mk2’s, or from Preston off a Manchester -Glasgow, or a Blackpool working, or Holyhead... 

 

Their used to be loads of non-push pull activity on the WCML concurrent to the IC 90’s running on DVTs, usually workings in place of an 86.

 

A quick google will probably find an example of an RfD 90 on passenger stock every year since build. 

 

 I’d class an rfd on Passenger as routine, but not necessarily daily or even weekly. Rare.. in my mind that would be a class 70 on passenger stock !

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[ThaneofFife]

no wow factor?   what would make this all new all singing all dancing 90 have this wow factor then - I don't understand but then again some classes in real life never exactly had the wow factor anyway.  Maybe some modellers just never did like the 90 but every class 37 or 47 ever released by Bachmann would instantly be given wow factor status.....  

 

Its got all the features we now expect of a modern diesel/electric 00 loco with all wheel pick up all wheel drive a heavy chassis great paint finish, full lighting functions sprung buffers - surely its leagues ahead of the Hornby model?

 

One thing I would suggest is perhaps whether the model has the scope to be fitted with EM or P4 wheelsets easily but beyond that I am not sure what people expected from this all new model.....i'd be delighted to hear what they feel lets the model down especially as its not even in the shops yet. 

[Winter123]

Think the Malcolm one (90024) is as close you'll get to wow and would be popular. Very intricate livery but I'm sure Bachmann would be up to the task.

[adb968008]

I thought i’d take a stab at class 90 liveries... 

feel free to fill in my gaps...

 

intercity

railfreight distribution

railfreight distribution (euro style)

railfreight distribution (90136/036)

RES

Mainline

TTG plain

TTG with EWS beasties

TTG Freightliner (wording)

EWS

DBS

DBS (with wording)

DRS (DB)

Freightliner

Freightliner swoosh

Malcolm

SNCF

SNCB

DB (not DBS)

Scotrail

GNER

Virgin

debranded virgin

National Express

Greater Anglia

One (Dark)

One (Light)

Abellio

 

so no shortages..

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[298]

All those liveries and Hornby still manage two fictitious ones...

 

Also:

 

Intercity with a dark cab roof (90009?)

 

Virgin w/vinyls (90014 The Big Dish)

 

Faded RfD, then with the red square repainted circa late 1995 (90024/5)

 

There are also variations with underframe fairings removed and different buffers/drawgear.

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, Winter123 said:

Think the Malcolm one (90024) is as close you'll get to wow . . .

Nah the original Intercity stirs my soul  simple and classy even now. 

[Andy Mac]

Well, i’m Looking forward to the arrival of my obsolete, no wow factor class 90, that seems to have been crucified by some, before it’s even hit the shops....

 

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 08/05/2019 at 07:44, AY Mod said:

 

An example of which is? 

 

I would hate to have your job.  I get depressed just skimming topics and I can hit the IGNORE button.  You can't, and you have to read everything.  How do you stand it?

 

[AY Mod]

18 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

You can't, and you have to read everything.  How do you stand it?

 

Like a moth to a flame I keep returning to the dying embers of hope that a topic has returned to some level of sensibility. Normally the other members level things out with reasonable assessments blown away on the wind from the ears of the fixated. When I can hear the dull thud of the wider readerships' foreheads banging on their desks there comes a time to quietly turn off those last glimmers of hope.

[Phil Parker]

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing all those layouts where the OLE exhibits the same standard of detail as the "obsolete" Class 90. Judging by some of the responses here, there must be quite a lot...

[vanbasher]

I'm certainly looking forward to the arrival of the 90 considering the best we've been able to get is a basic Hornby design. I keep checking this thread in the hope that I'll see available now soon.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, vanbasher said:

I'm certainly looking forward to the arrival of the 90 considering the best we've been able to get is a basic Hornby design. I keep checking this thread in the hope that I'll see available now soon.

Much like me who definitely can’t fit ohle in on a 10ft country branch but really fancies a 90, and that’s based on the photos of the model! If I pass one at a show I suspect gravitational pull will take over  

[woodenhead]

13 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Much like me who definitely can’t fit ohle in on a 10ft country branch but really fancies a 90, and that’s based on the photos of the model! If I pass one at a show I suspect gravitational pull will take over  

And if you have a 90, you must also have it's daddy the 87 and granddad Heljan 86 if you don't care about your eras.

 

Slippery slidey slope

[wombatofludham]

Judging by the apparent success of the Hornby 87 I suspect the 90 will be an equally good success.  The level of investment being made by the various companies in AC electric models clearly demonstrated the tide has turned on the appeal of AC traction.  I've got a very expensive year ahead.  The Bachmann 90 just looks right, which let's face it is most of the battle won.

Now, with my OCD having been satisfied on locomotive announcements (Class AL1/81 excepted but must be in the pipeline somewhere...) I now have a new variant of OCD and will keep reminding the manufacturers that we lack an appropriate WCML 1960s era EMU...

[Roy Langridge]

I can't help feeling that some people are muddling the concept of a loco having the wow factor, or not, with whether it is good representation of the real thing, or not.

 

There has not been much criticism of the model itself, and I stressed that it is a very good representation of the real thing, it is just that as locos go, the real class 90 is fairly dull.

 

And I will, at this point, defend YesTor. He did raise a very valid point that with some of the long gestation periods we have seen that what appears to be a very high-spec model when announced has become run-of-the-mill when released. We have already seen that some announcements of minor upgrades to tooling have resulted in all new tooling by release, partly as expectations have moved on in the intervening period.  I think such issues are a topic for discussion, although in my opinion they not linked solely to the Class 90 (if at all).

Roy

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

And if you have a 90, you must also have it's daddy the 87 and granddad Heljan 86 if you don't care about your eras.

 

Slippery slidey slope

Nah, neither mean anything special to me, my poison in overhead locos is metre gauge Swiss usually  

Like I said earlier ‘Wow factor’ is hugely subjective depending on us and not necessarily the model. There are some cracking models on the market that are brilliant technically too but I wouldn’t buy no matter how much the detail impresses.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by PaulRhB