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Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)


Andy Y
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14 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And we'd have posts on here moaning the pan didn't work. Remember, a few weeks ago, this was a loco being decried for lack of "wow". 


I agree with Pete.

Well they tried, but it's been said before....you cannot please everyone!

 

- DC users pay for a speaker and servo controlled pantograph they cannot use, a posable or accurate looking sprung pantograph would've made more people happy. Knowing Bachmann, they should've done a good job of it.

- A lot DCC users won't have a controller that can change CVs to modify the height of the pantograph. They either have to pay for a service or hopefully some one does it for them free of cost.

- I know of 3 people who've had their pantographs fail.

- The servo is quite noisy, it can be heard over a DCC sound fitted locomotive.

- The pantograph also when raised, doesn't raise properly, the upper arm and lower arm are supposed to raise to the same degree, yet the upper arm goes up lesser. This give the lower arm a good angle, but the upper arm is more horizontal like. All because that ficticious lower arm is not the correct length.
- Upon closer inspection the glazing is not that great at all, other Bachmann locos seem to have better glazing also.

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18 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:


I agree with Pete.

Well they tried, but it's been said before....you cannot please everyone!

 

- DC users pay for a speaker and servo controlled pantograph they cannot use, a posable or accurate looking sprung pantograph would've made more people happy. Knowing Bachmann, they should've done a good job of it.

- A lot DCC users won't have a controller that can change CVs to modify the height of the pantograph. They either have to pay for a service or hopefully some one does it for them free of cost.

- I know of 3 people who've had their pantographs fail.

- The servo is quite noisy, it can be heard over a DCC sound fitted locomotive.

- The pantograph also when raised, doesn't raise properly, the upper arm and lower arm are supposed to raise to the same degree, yet the upper arm goes up lesser. This give the lower arm a good angle, but the upper arm is more horizontal like. All because that ficticious lower arm is not the correct length.
- Upon closer inspection the glazing is not that great at all, other Bachmann locos seem to have better glazing also.

 

Speaker and servo will have added the price if a coffee to the model. These things are cheap even when bought singly at retail prices.

 

Since the pan and glazing that are fitted are in your opinion, rubbish, why do you conclude they would have made a good job of a sprung version?

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12 minutes ago, Wheres_Wally said:

 

Since the pan and glazing that are fitted are in your opinion, rubbish, why do you conclude they would have made a good job of a sprung version?

 

The one on their Class 85 looks good, scale representation, accurate, no extra arms and no servo-control. If they did it nicely then, could've been properly now.

 

Regarding the glazing, other Bachmann models seem to have better glazing. The Class 90 seems to suffer from the prism effect. And suffer from it quite badly.

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I’ve got my Freightliner version last week and the 90 is simply another stunning loco from Bachmann. Only given it a quick test on DC and it’s a nice smooth quiet runner. 

I think it captures the real thing well and certainly hope it sells well so we see things like DB appear in the future. 

 

cheers

Mark

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Who would be a model manufacturer eh?! Extreme plate spinning if you try and please everyone. To my eye its a belting model, it genuinely does raise the bar in many ways (lighting being the obvious one) and I'm looking forward to upgrading the speaker at some stage. Talking of which, has anyone figured out how to remove the body shell? 

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21 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

Who would be a model manufacturer eh?! 

 

Who indeed?  But I find myself increasingly wondering who is actually a modeller

 

There are certainly a few orators about.

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1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

The one on their Class 85 looks good, scale representation, accurate, no extra arms and no servo-control. If they did it nicely then, could've been properly now.

 

A sprung pan needs nice, smooth wires to run on or it will catch. People will argue about the amount of springing. Others will want a posable pan. Then someone will moan it's 2019 and why can't we have operating pans like they do on the continent...

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3 hours ago, Wheres_Wally said:

 

A sprung pan needs nice, smooth wires to run on or it will catch. People will argue about the amount of springing. Others will want a posable pan. Then someone will moan it's 2019 and why can't we have operating pans like they do on the continent...

& we wonder why manufacturers have preferred to make steam & diesel rather than OLE models?

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I’m following the debate...how often in real life would the pan be mov3d up and down ? Presumably only when it’s stabled or  when coming off the wires to be dragged ?

 

 

Edited by rob D2
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23 minutes ago, Markwalker67 said:

hi

stop putting Bachmann down class 90 is really good model compare to about 20 or 30 year ago

 

The Class 90 is very, very good compared to 20 or 30 years ago and I would jolly well hope so. Is it also very good compared to the standard of many models being released today? Yes. Could it have been better? Certainly. Why do you feel we should not discuss those elements?

 

Sorry, but this is a discussion forum.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
typo
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13 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The Class 90 is very, very good compared to 20 or 30 years ago and I would jolly well hope so. Is it also very good compared to the standard of many models being released today? Yes. Could it have been better? Certainly. Why do you feel we should not discuss those elements?

 

Sorry, but this is a discussion forum.

 

Roy

this is my own opinion but i think there is nothing wrong with class 90 i like the way it just is.

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I've got a Railfreight one here and Swallow one in the post and I'm very happy with mine. The only minor comment I'd have is that there doesn't look much depth to the bogie detail in particular the flexicoil suspension springs look very flat on the bogie frame, I'd prefer a bit more relief to that.

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11 minutes ago, Markwalker67 said:

this is my own opinion but i think there is nothing wrong with class 90 i like the way it just is.  I don't mean don't discuss it, that came out wrong. Sorry. I just meant that it's a pretty decent loco and I can't see the need for improvements. But, of course, I forgot that this isn't going to be everyone's opinion. You're right, this is a discussion forum, I was wrong. My apologies.

 

Edited by Markwalker67
Didn't stop to the think before putting fingers to keyboard.
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On 04/06/2019 at 20:43, Markwalker67 said:

hi

stop putting Bachmann down class 90 is really good model compare to about 20 or 30 year ago

 

On 04/06/2019 at 21:24, Markwalker67 said:

this is my own opinion but i think there is nothing wrong with class 90 i like the way it just is.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Just like you others have opinions too. If you look back in the thread you'll see that I have indeed had certain aspects of the model that I dislike. That's my opinion, I have never forced it upon anyone. The forum is meant to discuss something which is what we are doing.

 

You'll also know if you actually spend time reading, that despite the many issues I've personally found with the model, I have stated that I will buy one.

 

I don't see why you're so upset to a point where you tell us to stop putting the model down. No one is putting the model down. I haven't even listed all the issues I've found with the model. Initially I didn't want to list the issues I find with the Bachmann Class 90. However this is an open forum where we can discuss it, so I am listing the issues I find with the Bachmann Class 90....

The issues that bother me are:-

  • First and foremost, the second fictional lower arm of the pantograph. Electric locos are by default recognizable by their pantograph of whatever means they collect power from an external source. So if a pantograph is wrong. It's wrong and it spoils the model for me. Like we all like to see accurately represented motion gear on a steam locomotive. I like to see an accurate pantograph.
  • Something is off about the face of the Bachmann Class 90. Someone has mentioned it further down the thread, Its got to do with the angle of the windscreen in relation to the pillars on the sides. Also the panel just below windscreen is supposed to be flush with the face of the locomotive. But Bachmann made it such that it's raised and proud of the face.
  • Pantograph is extremely noisy. Some might say that cameras magnify the sound, but I've seen DCC Sound fitted ones where the servo drowns out the actual DCC sound.
  • Thanks to that second lower fictional arm, the loop that the arm has to hook into on the upper arm is gigantic. Looks like a big boob hanging down.
  • The glazing is extremely thick and has that prism effect.
  • The cowling/guard that actually hides the wipers when there not in use is completely missing.
  • The TDM cables are extremely thick. And because they're so small it looks worse.
  • The bogies are on a diet, they have absolutely no relief to them. The Hornby ones definitely look better.
  • The pantograph and speaker are of no use to a DC user.
  • Everyone has complained about how awkward and difficult it is to fit the blanking plate on the valances.
  • The pantograph doesn't raise correctly, rendering the whole idea of a servo controlled pantograph useless.
  • Someone made a point about the cost of a servo and speaker being low, that might be the case. But the cost of assembly goes up more.
  • The steps on the bogie seem to too proud of what they should be, so the bogie lacks relief and the steps don't? Should've been the other way around.

 

If you think that the Bachmann Class 90 is perfect, then so be it. I don't. They spent 5 years on it, I expected something better.

Edited by MGR Hooper!
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13 minutes ago, Markwalker67 said:

 

Ro

 

36 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The Class 90 is very, very good compared to 20 or 30 years ago and I would jolly well hope so. Is it also very good compared to the standard of many models being released today? Yes. Could it have been better? Certainly. Why do you feel we should not discuss those elements?

 

Sorry, but this is a discussion forum.

 

Roy

this is my own opinion but i think there is nothing wrong with class 90 i like the way it just is.  I don't mean don't discuss it, that came out wrong. Sorry. I just meant that it's a pretty decent loco and I can't see the need for improvements. But, of course, I forgot that this isn't going to be everyone's opinion. You're right, this is a discussion forum, I was wrong. My apologies.

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I've bought one of each of the new 90s and I do really like them.  However I have had an issue with my RF 90 that will mean it has to be returned.  Tested the loco on DC and all fine, fitted the Bachmann 90 DCC decoder and on putting on the track there was a loud squeal, and the pantograph shot down.  After that the pantograph refused to respond to any commands and a few mins later the whole loco wouldn't move with my DCC system shutting down showing a short circuit... removed the decoder and tried on DC and loco operates fine on DC (albeit with pantograph in down position now).  Tried alternative DCC decoders (also Bach Class 90 decoders) and same outcome - showing a short circuit.  All the Bach 90 decoders worked fine in my other Bach 90s so no issue there and for other 2 locos the pantograph works fine from the box.  So it looks like I've blown the panto servo on DCC using the correct chip and it has caused an internal short in the loco is my reading unless anyone can suggest different?  Will return to retailer shortly...

 

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6 hours ago, Markwalker67 said:

stop putting Bachmann down class 90 is really good model compare to about 20 or 30 year ago

 

...if it wasn't an improvement on something released three decades ago then we really should be worried! 

 

5 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Just like you others have opinions too. If you look back in the thread you'll see that I have indeed had certain aspects of the model that I dislike. That's my opinion, I have never forced it upon anyone.

 

I don't see why you're so upset to a point where you tell us to stop putting the model down. No one is putting the model down. I haven't even listed all the issues I've found with the model. And I don't intend to now seeing that it offends people so much.

 

If you think that the Bachmann Class 90 is perfect, then so be it. I don't. They spent 5 years on it, I expected something better.

 

I have to agree with this sentiment.  Despite all of my previous observations I have indeed purchased a Freightliner version.  To its absolute credit, I do feel that the overall look, feel and shape of the 90 has been captured superbly well -  and to be honest that really is the fundamental element in any model surely, as many manufacturers do sadly seem to make incredible blunders when it comes down to basic shape - so no gripes here in this respect as Bachmann appear to have got all of that just right?

 

To my eye, the livery on the Freightliner version is very nicely applied too, all logos neatly aligned etc.  All looks absolutely great!  I did view a few InterCity-liveried models at the weekend on various stalls at DEMU and I did notice that in almost all instances that the red and particularly the white bodyside stripes were quite fuzzy-edged in many cases, but I guess nothing is perfect...?

 

Otherwise I stand by my much earlier comments, in that areas that let the model down for me somewhat are the slightly two-dimensional-looking bogie mouldings - there's just very little depth to the overall appearance and especially the flexicoil arrangement.  Disappointing.  Glazing, again, too prism-like for a model with such a prominent windscreen design.  Pantograph - doesn't appear overly-convincing to my eye and although I realize this is of personal opinion the whole raising/lowering 'feature' seems to be much ado over very little?  In this respect I much prefer the arrangement as per the earlier Class 85.

 

As others have highlighted, in no way am I/we saying that this is an 'awful' model, far from it, it's very, very good!   Although after 5 years in the making I can't help but feel more than a little underwhelmed.  Will I buy another?  Not sure, having originally pre-ordered six models in total I have now settled for just one, and I have a feeling those extra funds may head toward a certain Class 92 which I suspect might offer far more bang-for-one's-buck.  I guess we'll see.

 

cheers

Al

 

 

 

Edited by YesTor
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Glazing, again, too prism-like for a model with such a prominent windscreen design.

Actually, I think they caught it very well, indeed I thought it was a selling point.

 

i tried to capture that reflective effect in this picture comparing them here..on the left vs right windows..

 

The reflective effect is a key point on the real thing, see 1min in, in this video...

 

Edited by adb968008
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8 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

...if it wasn't an improvement on something released three decades ago then we really should be worried! 

 

 

I have to agree with this sentiment.  Despite all of my previous observations I have indeed purchased a Freightliner version.  To its absolute credit, I do feel that the overall look, feel and shape of the 90 has been captured superbly well -  and to be honest that really is the fundamental element in any model surely, as many manufacturers do sadly seem to make incredible blunders when it comes down to basic shape - so no gripes here in this respect as Bachmann appear to have got all of that just right?

 

To my eye, the livery on the Freightliner version is very nicely applied too, all logos neatly aligned etc.  All looks absolutely great!  I did view a few InterCity-liveried models at the weekend on various stalls at DEMU and I did notice that in almost all instances that the red and particularly the white bodyside stripes were quite fuzzy-edged in many cases, but I guess nothing is perfect...?

 

Otherwise I stand by my much earlier comments, in that areas that let the model down for me somewhat are the slightly two-dimensional-looking bogie mouldings - there's just very little depth to the overall appearance and especially the flexicoil arrangement.  Disappointing.  Glazing, again, too prism-like for a model with such a prominent windscreen design.  Pantograph - doesn't appear overly-convincing to my eye and although I realize this is of personal opinion the whole raising/lowering 'feature' seems to be much ado over very little?  In this respect I much prefer the arrangement as per the earlier Class 85.

 

As others have highlighted, in no way am I/we saying that this is an 'awful' model, far from it, it's very, very good!   Although after 5 years in the making I can't help but feel more than a little underwhelmed.  Will I buy another?  Not sure, having originally pre-ordered six models in total I have now settled for just one, and I have a feeling those extra funds may head toward a certain Class 92 which I suspect might offer far more bang-for-one's-buck.  I guess we'll see.

 

cheers

Al

 

 

 

You're right on the bogies. I wasn't convinced before but I am now. The issue that stands out most to me, though, is that the rims around the windscreens are not wide enough, and the cowl ahead of the wipers is missing (another slight, barely noticeable flaw in this area is that Bachmann's windscreens slope down parallel to the corner pillars, when they should move away as they slope downwards). Then there's the issues with the buffer beam and faring which I mentioned before. Together these faults mean that I basically have to do the same amount of work that I had to do to the Hornby model - replace the windscreens and rims, and scratch build a new buffer beam and faring; the only difference is I get slightly more help from Bachmann on the faring. 

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Got my Freightliner 90 today and yes to me looks better in the flesh and a pretty decent model but no game changer as far as detail is concerned, as per previous post have to agree the bogie detail does look a bit flat.

Overall a good effort and would I buy another one if Bachmann release a DB or another current day livery then the answer is Yes.

 

Edit: A Bachmann Special Edition Malcolm Rail 90 would be superb.

Edited by classy52
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On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 14:21, Pete the Elaner said:

& we wonder why manufacturers have preferred to make steam & diesel rather than OLE models?

 

Stick to the 88 and 92 - no need to raise the pan.

 

But you do require a stabiliser rail for the 92...…………….

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I'd even go as far as saying the Hornby flexicoil suspension looks better than the Bachmann effort. By having it as part of the bogie moulding takes it right back from the bodyside edge where it should line up with. I presume its been done related to allowing it round tighter curves, but they could really do with a better solution than that

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4 hours ago, classy52 said:

Edit: A Bachmann Special Edition Malcolm Rail 90 would be superb.

 

If that's actually done by Bachmann or hopefully by a retailer, I'd buy that in a jiffy, despite all the niggles I've personally found with the model. Most I can sort out so I will.

 

Hopefully a retailer or Malcolm/DBS would do it, otherwise Bachmann may just do it as a club special and that's just an extra cost for something I don't need 

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