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Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

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1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Because (I think) they are different numbers of the same livery - not a one-off such as 90024.

 

Remember - as an aside - Hattons original list of 66s didn't replicate any previous number/livery combinations on all previous 66 releases.

 

 

Whilst no number/liveries may have been combined the livery itself is normally the main issue. I for one wouldn't care about the number of a particular loco, I'd be more bothered about if/what it was named and (in the case of the 66) what the lights are like

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14 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Whilst no number/liveries may have been combined the livery itself is normally the main issue. I for one wouldn't care about the number of a particular loco, I'd be more bothered about if/what it was named and (in the case of the 66) what the lights are like

 

Quite:

Numbers may not bother you or me, but lots are concerned about numbers - they don't want two locos with the same number.

Many folks are unwilling to renumber so duplicating a number/livery combo pretty much automatically reduces the sales potential.

 

My original reply was concerning duplication of a one-off.

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Quite:

Numbers may not bother you or me, but lots are concerned about numbers - they don't want two locos with the same number.

Many folks are unwilling to renumber so duplicating a number/livery combo pretty much automatically reduces the sales potential.

 

My original reply was concerning duplication of a one-off.

 

 

 

 

 

I get not wanting to duplicate a one off, it's more that how many people will also combine different models from different manufacturers in the same livery with different numbers? I'd have thought most of the industry would be whatever the best model and generally different models wouldn't be run together really closely as one would show the others flaws up too much? I haven't been back in this long but I know my Hornby 90 from the 90s would not look good next to my Bachmann one regardless of number or livery

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14 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I get not wanting to duplicate a one off, it's more that how many people will also combine different models from different manufacturers in the same livery with different numbers? I'd have thought most of the industry would be whatever the best model and generally different models wouldn't be run together really closely as one would show the others flaws up too much? I haven't been back in this long but I know my Hornby 90 from the 90s would not look good next to my Bachmann one regardless of number or livery

 

More than you think.

There was considerable "discussion" on the Hornby 87 thread when they duplicated number/livery combos of previous Lima releases............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hahahaha ok. I just couldn't see myself with various models with massive difference in perceived quality mingling. I have two Accurascale 37s on order and I own 2 Bachmann 37s but at present they are not clashing in terms of release so won't be moving the Bachmanns on (if and when the Accurascale ones prove better than them)....

 

If they did I'd be thinking

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1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

Hahahaha ok. I just couldn't see myself with various models with massive difference in perceived quality mingling. I have two Accurascale 37s on order and I own 2 Bachmann 37s but at present they are not clashing in terms of release so won't be moving the Bachmanns on (if and when the Accurascale ones prove better than them)....

 

If they did I'd be thinking

 

Likewise, many - including me, will be running Bachmann 66s alongside the Hattons offerings.

 

But there will always be those that will "trade up" to the newest release.

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13 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Likewise, many - including me, will be running Bachmann 66s alongside the Hattons offerings.

 

But there will always be those that will "trade up" to the newest release.

I'll have Hattons 66 next to my 2 Bachmann 66s. But from a value perspective I hope Hattons don't do Evening Star or Harry Beck! Although at least I got a good deal on Evening Star (it's the NRM one and I got it better than RRP), Harry Beck I had to pay typical prices

Edited by TomScrut
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6 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Because (I think) they are different numbers of the same livery - not a one-off such as 90024.

 

Remember - as an aside - Hattons original list of 66s didn't replicate any previous number/livery combinations on all previous 66 releases.

 

 

Interesting, so,to counter such theory as i'm in danger of taking this all too seriously, why did Bachmann's go and do 90037 in RfD which was the same as Hornby's RfD 90037, why didn't Bachmann make any of the other running numbers in RfD like 90033 or 90038 (neither previously done by Hornby)

 

As for the Hattons Originals 66, for which I know virtually nothing about, I've had a quick look at their running numbers and as far as I can see, if you look at the core liveries and running numbers, YES, they are all different SO i would say well done Hattons ... BUT ... (in support of my take on a possible Bachmann Malcolm Rail 90) they have done both the large logo British Railway livery and the Biffa Flying Dustman livery, BOTH of which I'm sure Bachmann have done those liveries too (running numbers the same too)

 

Going one step further, how many people think Hornby are going to have significant surplus' of their Class 92 models in the DB Romania livery? I have absolutely no idea why they would have made this livery when other UK liveries of the 92 have yet to be done by them (ie YIWU DB) Are we about to see them release Bulgarian liveried Class 86s and 87's also ?

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4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I get not wanting to duplicate a one off, it's more that how many people will also combine different models from different manufacturers in the same livery with different numbers? I'd have thought most of the industry would be whatever the best model and generally different models wouldn't be run together really closely as one would show the others flaws up too much? I haven't been back in this long but I know my Hornby 90 from the 90s would not look good next to my Bachmann one regardless of number or livery

 

Yes... ah ... ha....''here here''... I couldn't envisage my old ex EWS DB 90037, as good a repaint as it was, sitting alongside the latest repaint in DB red 90028 - even though the liveries are both in the same era - and are both sat at Crewe IEMD regularly (( 90028 was out on duty this week - 90037 wasn't lol - could be getting ready for its new work-promotion ^_^ ))

 

no, as the 90 good as it had served the model rail community as a virtual ''Hornby Railroad'' offering but advancement in the form of the Bachmann Class 90 was needed and well done Bachmann for seeing this opportunity - i don't think any Bachmann or Hornby 90s are ever going to compete on price or technical quality (on the basis of their current offerings) and having traded in nearly a dozen Hornby DB 90s , some of which were repaints or digitally enhanced - as I dare say most Hornby modellers would like to have some of the features of the premium offerings from the likes of Bachmann in their 66's , 90's or other more ''railroady'' models - such as cab lights or directional lighting 

 

In order for me to get back to having a nice group of DB 90's in Bachmann form, its going to take some time to get back there, due to the cost of one, even considering the three I have now, none of which came in the desired livery, two have been professionally reliveried, one has been post purchase sound fitted and the other two are about to be sound fitted ... the one remaining one, in Powerhaul will in time be reliveried into DB/EWS. 

 

I find it interesting how Hattons Originals have been released straight away in lots of livery combinations and options (DCCR/DCCF/DCCS) compared to Bachmann's 90 with three combinations at launch (all DCCR) and then the fourth several months later in DCCR or DCCS. 

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10 hours ago, cambo74 said:

Im currently doing a few for customers ....

 

90040 The Railway Mission in EWS

90016 in Freightliner Green

90034 in DB Cargo (ex DRS Blue)

90135 Crewe Basford Hall in RfD

90019 Penny Black in RES Livery

90015 Colchester Castle in Greater Anglia White

 

Plans to do ....

 

90044 in Freightliner Orange/Black

90034 in DRS Livery

90011 West Coast Rail 250 in Virgin Livery

90013 The Law Society in Virgin Livery 

 

Am sure there will be more from Bachmann ..... just under a month to find out and then another couple of years to wait ......

 

Ben

 

I am looking forward to seeing how these pan out Ben (( no pun intended on the ''pan'' :rofl: )) ... especially 90044 ... not because i want one in that livery, just more so as it's an interesting new livery for the 90s nicely adding to fifty shades of Freightliner - i hope to have 90 number three into the paint shop at some point in the year - and the Malcolm project, i am just not sure what i'm going to do on that one, i do want a Bachmann Malcolm Rail 90024 and if it isn't imminent, i will explore other avenues, but 90 number three at Johnson Street IEMD is probably not going to be a Malcolm one.

 

 

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On 08/01/2020 at 08:15, TomScrut said:

 

Aren't you missing DB and EWS from there? Bachmann haven't done them have they?

 

EWS and DB I would expect to be popular as they can be used on all sorts including ECML passenger stuff

 

''Here here TomScrut''

 

No.... they haven't ....

 

I'd settle for any EWS/DB livery being done sometime soon... and bear in mind there are some unusual liveries included there, so, for example, First Scotrail, no longer a current livery, rather defunct, but i love it, there is still a Class 90 now at Crewe sitting in FSR, 90021, which as I understand is likely to be repainted this year into Grand Central as it is one one four DB 90s likely to be working on these trains from Blackpool North, via Preston to Euston, but going back to the Barbie 90s, after going up and down the WCML for many years on the Caledonian Sleeper, and with its team mates, 90019, going into DB Cargo and 90024 into Malcolm Rail ... the sole survivor of the Barbie First Scotrail colours, 90021, ended up regularly working in pairings with other DB/EWS 90's on 4M25 ... (the Malcolm Logistics freight runs from Mossend to Daventry) daily and had even been seen as far south as the GEML covering for their 90 stock (90001-90015) in the same way 90034 is currently doing now, at Ilford.

 

As for other workings, well, EWS/DB 90's have been used all over the country on a range of operations, from Engineer's yard movements up and down both sides of the country under the wires, they are regularly used by heritage tours operators topping and tailing with diesels (regularly with Class 67s) and more recently, 90035, fresh out of the paint shop at Toton, has been assisting Network Rail on the testing of the electrification of the GWML.

 

Sooooo... Bachmann... if you are thinking about Bachmann 90 livery number five, any EWS, DB Schenker, DB Cargo era livery will do ... for me :biggrin_mini2: ... ok ?

 

Edited by DBC90024
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8 hours ago, DBC90024 said:

 

Thats nonsense... on the basis of this, Bachmann will produce only the models Hornby haven't, so why did they produce an IC Swallow and an RfD, both which Hornby have produced 

Sorry... 

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Hmmm.....the blackpool - eustons - will the stock be plug door or the older mk3s?

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2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Hmmm.....the blackpool - eustons - will the stock be plug door or the older mk3s?

Refurbished MK4's I think

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On 08/01/2020 at 22:52, DBC90024 said:

Newest to the list

 

32 Freightliner Orange and black - number 90044

33 Grand Central - Black & Orange stripe (Q2-Q4 2020) - numbers 90021, 90026, 90037 & 90039

 

I think I have got them all..

Great list - thank you.

 

I believe the Grand Central livery ones are actually planned to be 90020, 90021, 90026, 90029 and 90039.

 

Believe 90020 and 90026 will be receiving very shortly...

 

As ever, time will tell.

 

Keep up the good work.

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4 hours ago, DBC90024 said:

 

Interesting, so,to counter such theory as i'm in danger of taking this all too seriously, why did Bachmann's go and do 90037 in RfD which was the same as Hornby's RfD 90037, why didn't Bachmann make any of the other running numbers in RfD like 90033 or 90038 (neither previously done by Hornby)

 

 

I’d reckon the timing also plays a part - Hornby released 90037 in Trainload Distribution/Speedlink many years ago, it was in the early 90s catalogues and then again in the early 2000s, so by the time the Bachmann model came along it was long out of circulation and no longer relevant, same as when Bachmann recently did Belgian 90128 for the Collectors club, Hornby did that as a general release some years before in the early 2000s as well. I don’t think Bachmann care about repeating previous manufacturer releases as say, Hattons might on their 66s! 

 

It may be that Bachmann will choose a Malcolm 90 in the future but quite how long you’ll have to wait is anyone’s guess, I’d even say that the very next batch of normal 90s could even be 1-2 years off delivery as a starter, going by how often you see deliveries of other classes (such as 47s) in new liveries! I’d reckon your best bet for now is either some DIY/custom decals for Malcolm livery on the Bachmann 90, or take a Hornby body, detail and mate up to a Bachmann chassis for a hybrid spectacular one!

 

Cheers,

James

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8 hours ago, DBC90024 said:

 

Interesting, so,to counter such theory as i'm in danger of taking this all too seriously, why did Bachmann's go and do 90037 in RfD which was the same as Hornby's RfD 90037, why didn't Bachmann make any of the other running numbers in RfD like 90033 or 90038 (neither previously done by Hornby)

 

As for the Hattons Originals 66, for which I know virtually nothing about, I've had a quick look at their running numbers and as far as I can see, if you look at the core liveries and running numbers, YES, they are all different SO i would say well done Hattons ... BUT ... (in support of my take on a possible Bachmann Malcolm Rail 90) they have done both the large logo British Railway livery and the Biffa Flying Dustman livery, BOTH of which I'm sure Bachmann have done those liveries too (running numbers the same too)

 

Going one step further, how many people think Hornby are going to have significant surplus' of their Class 92 models in the DB Romania livery? I have absolutely no idea why they would have made this livery when other UK liveries of the 92 have yet to be done by them (ie YIWU DB) Are we about to see them release Bulgarian liveried Class 86s and 87's also ?

 

Interestingly enough there are a few developments relevant to what you say here.

 

AFAIK Accurascale are doing the YIWU 92 as a Rails exclusive.

 

On other foreign releases:

Hattons are doing some Euro Cargo Rail class 66s I think?

Hornby have actually announced a Bulgarian (I think) 56 this week

 

Not sure how popular either of these will be?

 

Regarding the celebrity 66s, Bachmann did do both the BR blue and the Biffa one as limited editions. Hattons have done them as a full run. So actually these 2 locos can be bought in all 3 manufacturers! Cemex Express is done by Hattons and Hornby too.

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9 hours ago, DBC90024 said:

 

 

 

As for the Hattons Originals 66, for which I know virtually nothing about, I've had a quick look at their running numbers and as far as I can see, if you look at the core liveries and running numbers, YES, they are all different SO i would say well done Hattons ... BUT ... (in support of my take on a possible Bachmann Malcolm Rail 90) they have done both the large logo British Railway livery and the Biffa Flying Dustman livery, BOTH of which I'm sure Bachmann have done those liveries too (running numbers the same too)

 

 

 

I think Bachmann doing large logo and Biffa 66 was more of a go at Hattons than for any other reason.

Hattons announced them first.

 

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3 hours ago, James Makin said:

 

I’d reckon the timing also plays a part - Hornby released 90037 in Trainload Distribution/Speedlink many years ago, it was in the early 90s catalogues and then again in the early 2000s, so by the time the Bachmann model came along it was long out of circulation and no longer relevant, same as when Bachmann recently did Belgian 90128 for the Collectors club, Hornby did that as a general release some years before in the early 2000s as well. I don’t think Bachmann care about repeating previous manufacturer releases as say, Hattons might on their 66s! 

 

It may be that Bachmann will choose a Malcolm 90 in the future but quite how long you’ll have to wait is anyone’s guess, I’d even say that the very next batch of normal 90s could even be 1-2 years off delivery as a starter, going by how often you see deliveries of other classes (such as 47s) in new liveries! I’d reckon your best bet for now is either some DIY/custom decals for Malcolm livery on the Bachmann 90, or take a Hornby body, detail and mate up to a Bachmann chassis for a hybrid spectacular one!

 

Cheers,

James

 

Hi James,

Yes I have been trying to source Malcolm Rail decals for the 90 for the last few months, I gave accidentally instigated a vinyl production which is now on Ebay, I want someone to do a pro-relivery the cab ends with the central section a vinyl. I now have the central vinyl section semi sorted but the cab ends from the Ebay vinyl arent accurate enough and I'm not covering up my side windows with a vinyl. Trouble is, it's a big of a tricky repaint and the decals side hard to find so far, I'm tempted to get in touch with Malcolm logistics as I know they do something very similar with corgi on a series of lorries. Trouble is, I have just blown £200 on a pair of sound decoders for the second 90, 034 and also the third 90, 0XX so this may have to wait a while.

 

Regards

[email protected]

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3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Interestingly enough there are a few developments relevant to what you say here.

 

AFAIK Accurascale are doing the YIWU 92 as a Rails exclusive.

 

On other foreign releases:

Hattons are doing some Euro Cargo Rail class 66s I think?

Hornby have actually announced a Bulgarian (I think) 56 this week

 

Not sure how popular either of these will be?

 

Regarding the celebrity 66s, Bachmann did do both the BR blue and the Biffa one as limited editions. Hattons have done them as a full run. So actually these 2 locos can be bought in all 3 manufacturers! Cemex Express is done by Hattons and Hornby too.

 

I quite fancy the DB YIWU 92 but with Johnson Street IEMD being a satellite servicing depot for the Cally sleeper operator, an Accurascales 92 in real is more of a priority to be seen alongside 87002 and eventually the Heljan 86s 101 and 401.

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4 hours ago, chris37422 said:

Great list - thank you.

 

I believe the Grand Central livery ones are actually planned to be 90020, 90021, 90026, 90029 and 90039.

 

Believe 90020 and 90026 will be receiving very shortly...

 

As ever, time will tell.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

You have made my day Chris37422 !!!

 

So 90037 is stating as it is ... brilliant

 

I love that livery... and it's my joint third favourite livery alongside 90024 and 90034.

 

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Interestingly enough there are a few developments relevant to what you say here.

 

AFAIK Accurascale are doing the YIWU 92 as a Rails exclusive.

 

On other foreign releases:

Hattons are doing some Euro Cargo Rail class 66s I think?

Hornby have actually announced a Bulgarian (I think) 56 this week

 

Not sure how popular either of these will be?

 

Regarding the celebrity 66s, Bachmann did do both the BR blue and the Biffa one as limited editions. Hattons have done them as a full run. So actually these 2 locos can be bought in all 3 manufacturers! Cemex Express is done by Hattons and Hornby too.

 

I quite fancy the DB YIWU 92 but with Johnson Street IEMD being a satellite servicing depot for the Cally sleeper operator, an Accurascales 92 is really more of a priority to be seen alongside 87002 and eventually the Heljan 86s 101 and 401.

Edited by DBC90024

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3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

On other foreign releases:

Hattons are doing some Euro Cargo Rail class 66s I think?

Hornby have actually announced a Bulgarian (I think) 56 this week


Not sure the 66 as there is a few HO offerings, but if marketed right (ie through Hornbys European channels) the 92 and 56 could sell... as modellers on the continent arent going to get a HO one anytime soon, and pro-rata the price of a UK models is low compared to European ones.

The 56 has a bit of celebrity status in Hungary as I recall.

 

Edited by adb968008

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On 09/01/2020 at 11:41, 298 said:

3- RfD were 90037-50 from new.

 

4- IC Mainline were 90027-36 from new.

 

8 Railfreight Distribution International (blue roof), 90033 had a diamond on the corridor side under the pantograph, the usual place was for both to be at the non-pantograph end (note the missing valence too).

 

Variation of 11- unbranded Virgin (90007,8 when the class first went to Anglia),

 

Incorrect liveries: Hornby 90020 in Parcels red and 90131 with a lighter variation of grey RfD International (as carried on an 86).

90033%20Coventry%20271204%20S%20Edwards.jpg

You can 90005 to the list of plain unbranded Virgin 90s working for Anglia

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On 10/01/2020 at 23:59, TomScrut said:

 

I get not wanting to duplicate a one off, it's more that how many people will also combine different models from different manufacturers in the same livery with different numbers? I'd have thought most of the industry would be whatever the best model and generally different models wouldn't be run together really closely as one would show the others flaws up too much? I haven't been back in this long but I know my Hornby 90 from the 90s would not look good next to my Bachmann one regardless of number or livery

 

Thats what Manufacturers want you to think.. new tooling, bin your old, upgrade and replace..indeed their bet on that tooling investment depends on buyers cannibalising their layouts as the hobby isnt growing that fast !!! (They would prefer you to bin it or break it to spares rather than put it on ebay.. as that just thins the gene pool even more).


I run different manufacturers side by side.. Ive still got a healthy fleet of Lima locomotives, especially where liveries have not since been repeated or specific models hold personal value.

 

For example Lima/ViTrains/Hornby/Bachmann 47’s live nicely side by side, admittedly Heljans is a bit fat.

 

Retooling is fools gold imho, just because someone retools a model thats £100 more than its predecessor doesn't make it better... they all come out of the same part of China at days end, especially if the old tool was from late 80’s onwards.

 

I was just comparing my new GWR / EMT 158’s last night against my Scotrail one from 1992.. I wont be selling my older ones, just selectively buying new ones in newer liveries.

 

That said some models do need retooling, Hornby’s 90 would be ok to me, if it had a more accurate Pantograph. Last years sellout of railroad 66’s shows that best doesn't always matter to the buyer...indeed people buying armfuls of cheap Hornby 66’s were paying much the same as Bachmann's not too shabby S/h class 66’s.

 

I model DC, so much of the value proposition of retooling to DCC stuff holds limited value to me.
 

 

Edited by adb968008
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I certainly won't be binning anything, it's not old enough as it is. But if it was older stuff then "controlled upgrade" may happen depending on the differences in perceived quality, features and of course the cost of the upgrade. It's more that I aren't particularly interested in buying a Hornby 66 anyway, it's not good enough a model for my liking, the Bachmann 66 I am going to wait and see my Hattons one before I decide my policy on that but I think I'll be sticking to Hattons at the moment unless Bachmann drop their prices.

 

I am taking a break from the second hand market after a few locos which have looked fine to begin with until actually something crops up demonstrating they weren't as good as the seller described. As with the different manufacturers I'd rather have less decent stuff than lots of stuff bought on the cheap I aren't happy with. 

 

I haven't seen a recent Hornby 90. When was it last retooled? I presume it's newer than the one from the late 80s/early 90s (which I had one of when I was a kid but lost all my trains in a house fire)?

 

A retool is not guaranteed to make anything better but I think we would be kidding ourselves thinking any different to "it normally does". It will be interesting to know how the tools for such as the Hattons model wears compared to stuff with less intricate detail.

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