Graham Farish N announcements July 2014 - SECR birdcage stock and some monster Scenecraft!

[Tim H]

I don't think so. In NSE days, I think that it was more BFKs that were used rather than FKs. Either way, I'm very pleased to see NSE liveried models coming from the Farish stable.

 

David

 

 

It was pairs of BFKs on the Waterloo-Exeter trains, but I'm sure I remember FKs on the Paddington-Oxford/Newbury lines. The lack of any first class coach makes it impossible to make up an accurate prototypical formation.

[Crepello]

Do you have definite evidence of these? If so, I suggest you send to Bachmann.

[Crepello]

Do you have any definite evidence of RUs in choc/cream? If so, I suggest you send to Bachmann.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Am I right in recalling that some Birdcage sets moved to other parts of the Southern as electrification extended through Kent? I have tried looking for allocation details this morning on Google but without success (must be typing in the wrong keywords).

[Tim H]

Do you have any definite evidence of RUs in choc/cream? If so, I suggest you send to Bachmann.

 

"Steam on West of England Main Lines", page 29 - Torbay Express in 1960 with a full rake of chocolate & cream Mk1s, catering vehicle is clearly an RU.

 

There's also a photo (can't find the book at the moment) of the westbound Cornish Riviera coming off the Saltash bridge behind a Warship. again with full chocolate & cream Mk1 set including an RU

[Bomag]

"Steam on West of England Main Lines", page 29 - Torbay Express in 1960 with a full rake of chocolate & cream Mk1s, catering vehicle is clearly an RU.

 

There's also a photo (can't find the book at the moment) of the westbound Cornish Riviera coming off the Saltash bridge behind a Warship. again with full chocolate & cream Mk1 set including an RU

 

The RU (as modeled) only covers a limited number of vehicles and therefore it may be than none of the modeled versions were in Ch&C. However, this has not stoped them before in putting the wrong livery/numbers on thier Mk1s.

[Tim H]

The RU (as modeled) only covers a limited number of vehicles and therefore it may be than none of the modeled versions were in Ch&C. However, this has not stoped them before in putting the wrong livery/numbers on thier Mk1s.

 

So, what diagram is the Farish model, and exactly how does it differ from other RU diagrams? 

 

(And has anybody found evidence that any RMBs carried C&C livery outside of preservation?)

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

I attended the Bachmann Open Day today and while there wasn't that much announced for N, I thought I'd post some photos of what was on show.   Apologies for the poor quality but they were snapped on a camera phone through glass.  I know Model Rail's photographer attended yesterday and got some much better shots of some of the items.

 

The event was hosted by Bachmann Europe MD Graham Hubbard, but guest of honour was Kenneth Ting, the president of Kader Industries, the company that owns Bachmann.  I understand it's only the second time in 25 years that Mr Ting has visited the UK offices, and he paid tribute to Bachmann's 48 UK-based staff.

 

 

Highlight for me of the N-gauge display were the factory-painted Polybulks, which are coming soon.  However, it looks as though these will be the first N-gauge wagons to be hit with the price increases designed to reflect the cost of individual products; their high levels of separately fitted detail meaning an RRP of £39.

 

 

The Tartan Arrow CCT is lovely, but looked a little odd in the (correct) white finish as I think I've become conditioned to expect the cream colour as modelled years ago by Lima!

 

 

Of the forthcoming locomotives, the pick of the bunch looked to me to be the DRS 37/4, though the Network Rail 57 wth Dellner couplers looks pretty good too.  I understand these models have all been cleared for production and should be here soon....

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps the most interesting news was in the Scenecraft section; although the power station components have not yet been sampled there were models of the static caravan, shunter's cabin and some low relief retaining walls and shops etc on show that looked rather good.  These buildings may not be "chocolate box" attractive, but they are nicely rendered models of authentic and workmanlike strutcures....

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of other models in the pipleline that we know about, such as the Mk2f coaches, and a few we don't, but there are not likely to be any more new N Gauge announcements until next March, when I understand Bachmann will hold their usual Hobby show.  It was explained to those attending that with so many items outstanding this catalogue is intended to be one of consolidation and catch-up - which probably makes sense.

 

Having said that, my impression was that while Bachmann continue to support N there is a little disappointment that sales seem to have plateaued at around 20% of OO, and I suspect the glory days of 8 new Farish locos per year are unlikely to return any time soon.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[bmthtrains - David]

Thanks Ben,

 

Very informative update - the 20% level is interesting though, it used to be claimed to be 15%, so the scale has grown over the past few years, but understandably not as much as Bachmann would have hoped given the huge investment in locos over that time.

 

We are perhaps very lucky that the 'shrink ray' path exists - without the OO models being developed first, we wouldn't be seeing anywhere near as many locos in N.

 

David

[D826]

In terms of Ben's reference to Bachmann's disappointment with sales plateauing in 'N' I can't help but think this is in part down to some odd decisions on releases, and batch runs with the oddity maintained by the recent announcements.

 

I'm a BR blue man - but the first run of Mark2a's was sold out, (all bar Firsts) long before I could get my hands on them. Likewise, further releases of the 45/46/ and 47 in plain old rail blue would be welcome. The western namers provide loads of mid 70s opportunity for the 47, and I'd have thought a split head code 45 or later 70s 45/6 with sealed beam head codes would be popular. A plain renumbered 45 or 46 would be good. I am looking forward to the 25 as I remember them well on Plymouth and Paignton locals in76/78 - though it won't stop me running my own 25 improved by the magnificent etches of a Mr Etched Pixels of this parish.

 

I'm sure the poly bulks will be popular - a small layout based on Copplestone could be tempting- but my point is that some of the batch production choices probably do little to maximise sales.

 

Oh, and the first manufacturer to do a 64 foot 3 car DMU - preferably a 118/9 or more esoterically a 120 is going to do very nicely I'm sure (cos of course I am an expert on what sells - tongue firmly in cheek).

 

Hope to get some make 2a's this time round.

 

Regards and keep the faith with N fellow RM ers.

 

Matt W

[Tim H]

39 squid for the Polybulks? Yikes! And something I need a block train of too!

[mikeharvey22]

Ben's mention of the Polybulks is interesting. It makes them more costly than the newly tooled modern continental grain wagons from NME, which appear to be equivalent in detail and features and come with a Fleischmann pedigree. Rolf Fleischmann is NME.

 

http://www.data-space.eu/kramm/bilder/katalog/614/204600.jpg

 

http://www.data-space.eu/kramm/bilder/katalog/614/204601.jpg

[Tim H]

Ben's mention of the Polybulks is interesting. It makes them more costly than the newly tooled modern continental grain wagons from NME, which appear to be equivalent in detail and features and come with a Fleischmann pedigree. Rolf Fleischmann is NME.

 

http://www.data-space.eu/kramm/bilder/katalog/614/204600.jpg

 

http://www.data-space.eu/kramm/bilder/katalog/614/204601.jpg

 

Comparing those photos with Ben's photos of the Farish Polybulks, I'd say that the Farish Polybulks are the superior models in terms of detail and realism.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Having said that, my impression was that while Bachmann continue to support N there is a little disappointment that sales seem to have plateaued at around 20% of OO, and I suspect the glory days of 8 new Farish locos per year are unlikely to return any time soon.

 

 

 

 

Very informative update - the 20% level is interesting though, it used to be claimed to be 15%, so the scale has grown over the past few years, but understandably not as much as Bachmann would have hoped given the huge investment in locos over that time.

 

 

Perhaps we should not be too surprised. After all, this thread is 20% shorter than the 00 one...

[woodenhead]

The problem with N to me has always been the track and couplings, but with Finetrax and replacement drop in couplings we are beginning to get some of the things previously denied to us smaller gaugers.

 

I think a few limited editions would also help, all these one off locos and special commissions by Kernow and Hattons makes OO very attractive still.

[Roy L S]

Personally I would not want a return to the "Glory days" of 8 new locos announced in one year and in reality I doubt that level of growth was ever sustainable.

 

I do have a slight challenge regarding their "disappointment" that sales of N appear to be plateauing at 20% of 00 and would question to what extent that growth is dictated or indeed constrained by availability. For example there was a point last year where there were far more steam locos "still to come" on their website than there were available and with the best will in the world if they aren't available in the shops we can't buy them! It is true that towards the end of the year that situation was corrected somewhat with the arrival of the Ivatt, J39, Jinty and Fairburn in quick succession but I would suggest that then may have created a different problem regarding sales with people needing to make choices given that they all came along together!

 

I wouldn't want people to misunderstand, I do not doubt their numbers, they are far better placed than anyone else to know, all I am saying is that there may have been factors which certainly will not have helped.

 

I would also say that personally I have no issue with a period of consolidation, that is entirely sensible, but if that is the true position then all the hype around the three "newly tooled" N products which while factually correct was very disappointing for many as there was a general expectation that they would be more diverse than a rake of somewhat "niche" coaches.

 

Which finally brings me on to the "Birdcage" coaches. I am sure they will be fabulous models but if there remains a desire to "grow" the market, I really fail to understand how these coaches will deliver that compared to say a brand new Hughes Fowler Crab to the standard of recent releases!

 

Roy

[bridgiesimon]

Although the birdcage stock is interesting, I am also surprised and think that maybe other bullied varient would have been more useful such as the tavern car pair or the, still missing, brake composites!

 

Not knocking Bachmann, any addition to the range can only be positive!

 

Best wishes

Simon

[woodenhead]

I think there is 'stuff' in the pipeline that won't be announced, just relased as surprises when the time is right, the Crab and 40 spring to mind as locos removed from the current catalogue when you wouldn't expect them to be, the 8f has also disappeared.

 

Of course it could simply be to create demand you first have to cull the old model.

[Bomag]

So, what diagram is the Farish model, and exactly how does it differ from other RU diagrams? 

 

(And has anybody found evidence that any RMBs carried C&C livery outside of preservation?)

 

The first two batches of RU had roof tanks and a 4 foot centre window (1901-1912 and 1913-1924) all delivered to WR 9/57 to 1/59 all on BR1 bogies.

 

The remaining RUs had underframe tanks and a 4 foot centre window (1925-1943/1944-1958/1959-1991) of which only 1944-1948 were to WR - all 6/60.

 

I can't remember which one is modelled - Parkin shows W1902 in Ch&C on delivery and the supplement lists 1901-1906 1913 1915/16 in Ch&C

 

The first RMB was delivered in Jan 58 to the ER and would certainly be in Maroon. AFAIK the only Mk1 catering cars in C&C were W301--305; E80001-S80009, plus the prototype car 1900.

[richierich]

Interesting comment about sales at 20% of 1:76 scale.

 

Speaking personally I feel Farish need to address quality issues such as split wheelset gears, which still happen. On a model loco costing £100+ it's not really acceptable, and puts me off buying locos.

 

But the range lacks consistency, in terms of models issued for a period, such as BR sectorisation for example. However the slower pace of releases is more wallet friendly.

 

Overall I'd have thought N has a good future. Dwellings are getting smaller, so to model something beyond the contrived "diesel depot" that represents the operational railway the only real choice is N.

 

But in Britain we do have a preception of size equals value, hence if for example a Polybulk in N is £39.95 and in OO its the same price, then based on the perception the customer is more likely to by OO scale. I know I'm guilty of thinking this when considering a purchase.

[Revolution Ben]

Interesting comment about sales at 20% of 1:76 scale.

 

<snipped>

But in Britain we do have a preception of size equals value, hence if for example a Polybulk in N is £39.95 and in OO its the same price, then based on the perception the customer is more likely to by OO scale. I know I'm guilty of thinking this when considering a purchase.

 

This is a good point.  Actually, notes have been checked and N sales are 30% of OO, not 20%, so my apologies for the erroneous figure.

 

However the costs for tooling/moulding/panting/printing and packaging an N gauge model and a OO model are pretty much identical, even if development costs can be spread across both scales, so N gauge models are always likely to be about the same price.  Perhaps we need to consider models like books - do we judge the price of a book on its thickness, or on whether it's by an author we really like and/or about characters we're really interested in?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Karhedron]

The raw materials make up only a fraction of the cost of the model. Even though it may only use 1/8 of the amount of plastic as the 00 version, the saving is a matter of pennies. Ironically, the bigger saving is in terms of shipping, you can fit 8 times more N gauge polybulks into a shipping container than 00 ones.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Karhedron

[bmthtrains - David]

From a consumer psychology perspective, we actually tend to compare value initially by the size of the box...if N gauge stock costs the same as OO stock, but came in a much larger box, we'd actually see the value as commensurate. Of course this has the effect of increasing transport prices for the manufactur, so the price we'd pay would go up, so alas this can't actually happen!

 

I am actually surprised if it really is 30% of OO, that seems rather high and double what it was a few years ago. If I had doubled the sales of a range I certainly would be "disapointed" as Bachmann put it.

 

Of course, these are percentages, so the actual number of units sold may not be very different if the overall sales of OO has dropped in that time...

 

David

[grahame]

To me the quoting of N gauge sales as a percentage of OO sales is not very meaningful (if that is what is meant). It all rather depends what the OO market size is and it's trend. If OO sales have declined significantly in that period then 30% of them now may well be not much more than 15% of the earlier larger OO market size. On the other hand if OO has grown then to go from 15 to 30% could be a more than doubling of total N gauge sales in that period. 

 

A split of sales between the various gauges/scales and the total size (sales) of the market would be more indicative.

[Mr chapman]

Im more than happy for Bachmann to have a catch up. Theres plenty Im waiting for like the merchant navy and N class. Not to mention the stuff from Dapol. Im more interested in coaches for them to pull. Theres No point in having loads of locos and nothing to go behind them.