JE Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Hi I am hoping to build a rake of the vacuum braked 13t open china clay wagons without 'hoods', which were used on the 'Clayliner' working from Cornwall to the Potteries up to 1982 before the advent of the 'Clay Tiger' PBA air braked wagons. I have a feeling these wagons were a mixed bunch of BR built and pre-nationalisation types and were possibly different from the 'clayhood' type in their dimensions, so I am not sure the available RTR models and kits for clayhoods are a suitable basis. Does anyone know of any available kits which would suitable? Many thanks James Evans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 The usual source (Paul Bartlett's wagons site) yields hundreds of photos of these types. http://www.gallery6801.fotopic.net/c163789.html http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c163031.html They were all 10' wb fitted 5 plank wooden bodied 'Highs' - for clayliner use, most were fitted with roller bearings which is an essential mod' to otherwise fairly standard vehicles (mostly with Morton brakegear) - Parkside can provide the BR pattern with corrugated ends and an LNER five plank. Ratio a GW five and a half plank (but that will need a thorough rebuild to get that version). There's a start, anyway, I'm sure others will know more! Adam 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 They were all 10' wb fitted 5 plank wooden bodied 'Highs' - for clayliner use, most were fitted with roller bearings which is an essential mod' to otherwise fairly standard vehicles (mostly with Morton brakegear) - Parkside can provide the BR pattern with corrugated ends and an LNER five plank. Ratio a GW five and a half plank (but that will need a thorough rebuild to get that version). There's a start, anyway, I'm sure others will know more! Only one of the pre-war clasp-braked LNER 5 plankers (a la Parkside) was known to have passed into Clayliner use, although there were probably some of the post-war 5 plankers with RCH brakegear and certainly some of the 6 plankers. The latter would either be a scratchbuild or an extensive conversion from something like a 3H or Cambrian wooden-underframed version. The LMS, SR, MoS (again only one) and BR dia 1/034, 1/042 and 1/045 5-plankers are much of a muchness apart from small details and personally, I would use the 1970s Airfix RTR item (since made by Dapol and now Hornby), although the above mentioned Parkside body is very similar. As well as the roller bearings, I would expect that most if not all wagons would have had BR-pattern axleguards fitted at the same time 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Do I get the prize for resurrecting the oldest thread today? Rather than duplicate subjects, something we seem to do routinely, I found this whilst researching. I've finally got fed up with my Clayliner rake being based on (incorrect) Bachmann 9' wheelbase clay wagons, and have started to accrue bits and pieces to build a more prototypical rake. But it will take time! I've found Paul Bartlett's Zenfolio site invaluable (as always) and here are the updated links - the ones above are to the defunct fotopic site Clayliner wagons - ex big four http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/prenatclayliner/h174ee8bd#h1e29495b Clayliner wagons - BR builds http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayliner What a fascinating mix the Clayliner was in the 1970s, ex big four 5 and 6 plank steel framed high wagons and as Ian has mentioned above a lot of different BR diagram wagons 1/034, 1/039, 1/042 and 1/045. There's even a pic of a steel bodied 1/041 in there for added variety. I'd always assumed the whole Clayliner fleet were fitted with roller bearings - not true, many still had oil axle boxes. Does anyone know a good white metal cast for the pattern of roller bearing used? I've checked the MJT site and they're not SKF ones. Rumney models are about to produce the closest I can see that are appropriate. Cambridge custom transfers also do appropriate decals - do they include pool numbers? Sorry for the questions - hoping someone has done the same as I'm planning to do. As always - wish I'd paid more attention forty years ago. The Clayliner, complete with Western, class 46 or the occasional class 47 was part of my daily spotting diet. I hope to do it some justice. Neil Edited August 24, 2016 by Downendian 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 A more complete (not complete!) list of these wagons is in Larkin, David (2008) Wagons of the final British Railways Era. A pictorial study of the 1962 - 1968 period. Pub by Kestrel Railway books. ISBN 978 0 905505-08-1 viii+88pp on page 7 Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thanks Paul I do indeed have that book, and will be studying it this evening. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I don't think that John Isherwood's transfers will have the Pool numbers and PPM dates, as it's a bit late for the period. If it would be of use, I have some hand-written notes about bearings fitted, Pool numbers and wagon numbers dating from the mid-1970s. The situation regarding models is a little better now. Cambrian do, or doing, the ex-SR 5 planker, which was also supplied to the LNER. The LMS one with corrugated ends is still available from Parkside. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 Like Neil we make do with the inaccurate Bachmann offering - 9ft wheelbase and roller bearings but at least they have the w iron bracing tie unlike some other wagons from that stable. Looking at Paul's site the 9ft hoods were mostly oil boxes. Its flat tarps for the clayliner isn't it? We have used wide masking tape for the tarps painted grey - not quite 50 shades but looks effective, and folded up in the bottom of the returning empties. Also comes far enough down side of wagon to obscure most branding.... We have changed the coupling on the lead wagon for one with a NEM pocket - the flexibility reduces derailments - and fitted the obligatory tail lamp vac pipe and instanter on the tail vehicle Usually gets appreciative nods at shows.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYg23Rj-Pl4 And for gratuitous porn I cant help but put the link to Mike King's photo up again... http://www.miac.org.uk/images/1048.jpg Phil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The wagon sheets were made of a glossy polythene-type material. Most were grey, but I did see occasional blue ones at Longport; I sometimes helped fold them up after the wagons were unloaded. They used to get stacked on pallets, then loaded into the 12t vans that accompanied them. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 Was the use of vans random Brian? Remember seeing trains with them - but also without! Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Here is a view looking down onto 6V53 empties at Teignmouth behind 1070 in 1976 https://www.flickr.com/photos/suthensofty/8418537314/in/photolist-ofior9-8Z3kcY-bP6ZWi-iuyT7X-krjRf9-caJWnC-dPVcR5-bqaT6V-itDTM1-nb2MDh-dEnNq3-nFSQUj-mm7Aap-aX98rR-n4HRGG-oSxcBS-nFTANa-nt4T2R-kF2JAr-nKnuxW-jjWRNx-nt4mA1-n4HRuh-kF2g2F-jjWRHc-qaCrQU-pCrz9Z-gsX1eg-adaiDR-nYgoCf-nKy44k-n4GgkM-n4G3Bn-n4GdtV-nYfAcY-nt4SKi-jjWRYH-kF2HjZ-kF2GZa-nt4qtn-jjYgsH-qUqEvG-n4HR1w-jjYgA8-n2XcmY-cnWbB1-duJ6mo-n2Xkao-aGLaQi-oS14Ek cheers 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 And the empties at Norton Junction behind 47051 - boo hiss!!! Hang on - that's a loco with a Stones boiler, been looking for a decent picture of that arrangement . Phil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 For the roller bearings try contacting slimrails. He can supply the roller bearings used on the MDV wagon as a spare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Was the use of vans random Brian? Remember seeing trains with them - but also without! Cheers Phil The vans brought bagged china clay for use by 'studio potteries', schools and colleges; vans weren't always present, as demand for this was variable. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bescotbeast Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 My own little contribution, a Gallery I've put together on pictures I've found on Flickr of the Clayliner https://www.flickr.com/photos/50619197@N07/galleries/72157632402369831/ 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted August 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2016 I don't think that John Isherwood's transfers will have the Pool numbers and PPM dates, as it's a bit late for the period. If it would be of use, I have some hand-written notes about bearings fitted, Pool numbers and wagon numbers dating from the mid-1970s. The situation regarding models is a little better now. Cambrian do, or doing, the ex-SR 5 planker, which was also supplied to the LNER. The LMS one with corrugated ends is still available from Parkside. That would be indeed useful Brian. I've just been looking at the Bachmann 9' WB China clay tipplers yesterday evening, and they do have a representation of the roller bearings used. At a push I could surgically remove their W irons, although I'm sure there is a better alternative than that. I have several Parkside and Cambrian kits on order, the PC02A will make up to a 1/039 which seems to be the most common wagon in Clayliner rakes. Still no luck with transfers for pool numbers. Neil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I found the notebook in which I recorded the numbers; there are fewer than I thought, and less detail than I would have liked. Here goes;- W144021 'OWV' roller bearings B495151 oil axle-boxes E311997 'OWV' roller bearings B491856 oil axle-boxes B477069 'OWV' roller bearings, POOL 7401 B743626 'UCV' oil axle-boxes POOL 7409 B481705 oil axle-boxes, corrugated ends B485107 oil axle-boxes, corrugated ends I suspect I must have noted these details down whilst at the end of my stay in Bristol, so 1976 or even '77, as there are other notes concerning tipplers in stone traffic, and one I do remember being at St Andrew's Road (B947946 CONFLAT CLAY- Boplate) If only I'd used my camera.. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I'm in the process of putting together a small rake of these wagons as I try to re-stock Wheal Elizabeth, initially concentrating on the 1978 to 1982 period. The info on Paul Bartlett's site and various photos in the John Vaughan books suggest that there were a number on BR/LNER 12t Steel Opens used in these rakes. Were these actually used for carrying clay or were they simply "support" wagons for carrying tarpaulins etc when the clay wagons were empty? Was this also the role taken by the occasional 12t Van seen in the midst of the Clayliner consist? I'd be interested to hear any thoughts about the workings of these trains as including one or other of these would add a little variety to the consist! Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted July 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) Having learnt that the Bachmann UCV's are not the wagon I need to model early 1980's china clay flows from Cornwall to the western highlands, I am seeking information on whether the wagons used on clayliner flows were used on Scottish flows prior to the introduction of the PRA's in 1984. I think they were, however the only photos I have managed to find on line are on Flickr from John Baker's (Spannerman 37025) excellent Scottish themed albums. These look like OWV's to me but the wagons are damaged following a derailment. Can someone add any more detail to these workings? Further pictures would also be much appreciated Edited July 3, 2019 by young37215 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 The photo shown is of purpose built China Clay wagons as the longitudinal planks on the floor is clearly seen to aid tipping towards the end door. The ones running elsewhere were normal timber bodied highfits. Mark Saunders 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Reviving a topic... The various 'pool' or loading numbers(?) on Clayliner wagons such as - 7401 7451 7449 7409 etc Do they refer to pools or actual loading locations eg: Goonbarrow Rocks, Treviscoe, Drinnick Mill, etc? Many thanks for any information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) On 03/05/2020 at 15:19, JohnH said: Reviving a topic... The various 'pool' or loading numbers(?) on Clayliner wagons such as - 7401 7451 7449 7409 etc Do they refer to pools or actual loading locations eg: Goonbarrow Rocks, Treviscoe, Drinnick Mill, etc? Many thanks for any information. Those four figure numbers are the wagon pools. Pools ending in an odd number are assigned to a particular location (that is when released empty on TOPS they will pick up their 'home' location number). Even numbered wagon pools (wagons such as VAA VBA VCA OAA etc) were unassigned and the empty destination would be against a wagon order as decided by the CWA (Central Wagon Authority) in conjunction with freight rolling stock clerks. I may be wrong, but I don't think each clay loading point had its own specific wagon pool, rather there were separate pools for export china clay via Fowey in clayhoods, domestic china clay from Cornwall in clayfits, export ball clay from Devon via Fowey in clayhoods, and domestic ball clay from Devon in clayfits. China clay and ball clay handled differently and the wagon pools were kept separate. When wagons at Stoke on Trent in the Cornwall 'domestic' pool were reported empty they would pick up their 'home' location 85220 St Blazey Yard. At some point, perhaps while still on 6V53 empty clayliner, or maybe once at St Blazey, blocks of wagons would be redestined as required to each loading point. Similarly ball clay empties would probably initially be destined empty to Exeter Riverside Yard, to be forwarded to either North Devon or Heathfield as required. It might be possible to work out some pools, have a look at the Paul Bartlett wagon site, search for types UCV and OWV, he often mentions the pool number, and some wagons were also stencilled 'ball clay only' for example. Some of the relevant TOPS location numbers 83201 Meeth 83203 Marland 83400 Exeter Riverside Yard 83443 Exmouth Junction C&W 83617 Heathfield ECC 83619 Teignbridge WBB 84071 Ivybridge WBB 84084 Marsh Mills ECC 84413 Moorswater ECC 85005 Wenford Bridge ECC 85105 Fowey ECC 85212 Par Harbour ECC 85220 St Blazey Yard 85223 Pontsmill NCM 85229 Goonbarrow ECC (also known as Rocks) 85251 Meledor Mill ECC 85402 Burngulow ECC 85412 Drinnick Mill ECC 85413 Drinnick Mill G&R cheers Edited May 29, 2020 by Rivercider spelling 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Thanks very much for this informative and interesting reply Rivercider - Brilliant! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 8, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2023 An old topic, but I’ve eventually got round to my clayliner rake. It is a mix of Cambrian D1375 10’ wb opens ex SR and LNER , and a number of Parkside 1/039; 1/044 opens. Plus a few Hornby/airfix ex GWR/LMS 5 plankers. The build is on my workbench thread and should be complete in a couple of weeks. Here’s one of the D1375s awaiting china clay weathering powders Neil 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I'm sure I've seen an ex-LNER 6-planker in clay service... I've also seen a photo of a wagon bearing two painted numbers. Exmouth Jct had replaced a damaged plank with one recovered from a scrapper; it was the one with the wagon number painted on it. I 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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