Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
rovex

3D printing - brickwork

Recommended Posts

I'm guessing that the answer to this query is going to be no - but is there an easy way to add a brickwork texture to a 3D model - that is other than drawing each mortor line and indenting the same.

 

If there isn't - in 4mm scale what do others find is an acceptable mortar joint. I'm guessing about .2mm, but would be interested in others opinions and experiments.

 

thanks

 

Dean

Edited by rovex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends what software you're using. Most CAD packages I've had experience with support arrays (ie one feature in a repeated pattern). It would probably still require some tidying up around the edges and features though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be easier to array the bricks, and add them to the basic structure! (rather than subtracting the grooves)

 

0.2 mm would be a good starting point for the mortar joints. How they come out would depend on the material. I have found with Prime Gray, that printing of grooves varies a bit from one order to another depending on the particular printer used for each order. I mostly use 0.25-0.3 mm for grooves for doors or wood planking. I haven't tackled brickwork yet.

 

I suggest doing a small test piece, maybe with a few different groove widths, to see what works with your chosen material, before tackling a complete building. The appearance will also vary after painting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found I can make out brick textures from shapeways in WSF at OO and FUD at N using a scaled down 15mm mortar course  even though in theory this is less than the minimum detail dimension required. I came up with a nifty way of modelling brickwork,using Revit. I even worked out how to achieve tapered brick chimneys.

 

post-18634-0-63044800-1407063700.jpg

 

For anyone familiar with Revit, think custom curtain wall, the bricks are windows and the mortar is the transom and mullions.

 

Peter

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was interested in a similar problem for hard to draw patterns , such as dry stone or flint walls where the pattern isn't regular.  I eventually came up with a method where I downloaded a 2d 'texture' image and converted this to a 3d relief map (see 'bump mapping' from the computer games industry).  I could then stick this 3d relief into my models and print it as a texture.  However, the whole thing fell over because any irregular surface over a reasonable size structure soon became so computationally enormous that my PC started to melt.

In the end I had to give up on this approach.

Regular patterns like bricks are much easier through, and most software tools will have 'array' or 'pattern' tools to help.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I modeled these Chimney stacks a while ago.

 

post-18634-0-70984100-1407105713.jpg

 

I actually created a model of a brick and built up the courses from that so that the bonding would work around the corners. (much cutting and pasting) The mortar courses was a single extrusion set in from the outside face of the bricks. I then used a void extrusion to make the wall thickness thinner, cutting out the backs of the bricks and the mortar. I used another void extrusion to cut out for the roof.

 

Here is a painted OO scale White Strong and Flexible Shapeways print perched on top of a semi derelict Metcalfe model. As you can see the brickwork texture is visible. I've also done the same thing at N Scale using FUD. Again the brick texture was visible.

 

 

post-18634-0-20204100-1407105715.jpg

 

Peter

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion - and this is just my opinion so feel free to disagree - for something like this I wouldn't use 3D printing. The cost would be very high when you can easily buy embossed card with brick patterns from a craft store and do your building manually. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion - and this is just my opinion so feel free to disagree - for something like this I wouldn't use 3D printing. The cost would be very high when you can easily buy embossed card with brick patterns from a craft store and do your building manually. 

Well some can and do. I can't cut straight and don't really enjoy the time I have to put in to model the traditional way.

 

If I had to put a cost on my time (and I agree most people don't) then 3D printing is much cheaper. Even with my time un-costed, the margin between embossed card or embossed plastic and 3d printing is eroding all the time. But the bottom line for me is that I begrudge the time cutting card that I could spend doing other things.

 

I can also print things via shapeways that I know I would never have the skill to produce from a traditional modelling process.

 

This portion of a platform canopy is printed as a single piece. It is way beyond my traditional modeling skills.

 

post-18634-0-43319800-1407144663.jpg

 

Peter

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose you could always draw a brick, make it a component and just copy and paste, building up the model brick by brick just like the real thing! WSF from shapeways has a nice brick like texture I feel, how well would it cope with 0.2mm mortar lines? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well some can and do. I can't cut straight and don't really enjoy the time I have to put in to model the traditional way.

 

If I had to put a cost on my time (and I agree most people don't) then 3D printing is much cheaper. Even with my time un-costed, the margin between embossed card or embossed plastic and 3d printing is eroding all the time. But the bottom line for me is that I begrudge the time cutting card that I could spend doing other things.

 

I can also print things via shapeways that I know I would never have the skill to produce from a traditional modelling process.

 

This portion of a platform canopy is printed as a single piece. It is way beyond my traditional modeling skills.

 

attachicon.gif29 July 002 red.jpg

 

Peter

 

 

Hey Peter, 

The print looks awesome! I personally don't mind doing manual model making, though I admit I have considered printing out buildings too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I modeled these Chimney stacks a while ago.

 

attachicon.gif625x465_1824368_2452384_1396167122.jpg

 

I actually created a model of a brick and built up the courses from that so that the bonding would work around the corners. (much cutting and pasting) The mortar courses was a single extrusion set in from the outside face of the bricks. I then used a void extrusion to make the wall thickness thinner, cutting out the backs of the bricks and the mortar. I used another void extrusion to cut out for the roof.

 

Here is a painted OO scale White Strong and Flexible Shapeways print perched on top of a semi derelict Metcalfe model. As you can see the brickwork texture is visible. I've also done the same thing at N Scale using FUD. Again the brick texture was visible.

 

 

attachicon.gif1043_151107_010000000.jpg

 

Peter

 

Sorry to open up an old thread, just wondering what dimensions you used for bricks and Mortar? the ones I used produced results but not as good as the above, though the bricks look too small to me anyway. (maybe I misread the dimensions I was given?) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had to do something similar with my stone setts on my dockyard/tramway track. I have had problems with printing, mainly because gaps between stones were too small so sometimes they worked sometimes not, so I increased gaps.

Big problem on development has been not having sufficient memory on this laptop to process all those 8 sided shapes(I curve the corners), and it is a lot easier in the bigger scales. I had thought of defining it as a series of cuts, and not having to manually modify setts on curves, but this tends to result in some odd shaped bits, some of which might result in rejection.

I have watched one model railway club use a 3D printer to produce building sides for their N gauge layout. Each side takes less than an hour to print, and they do have to take machine maintenance into account, but there as no way(they said) they could have built all the buildings by conventional methods in the same time. 3D printing also has the advantage of being able to duplicate models, for other projects. They found that no two buildings or rows of buildings were the same, a miskake many make on their layouts by using propriety items.

As for brickwork, there are far more brick bonds than there are pre shaped plastic sheets available. Noone produces the unique way ourlocal world famous bricks(NORI) are used to build buildings, I think it is referred to as 'French Bond', and in France there is a similar bond but the number of rows is different.

Edited by rue_d_etropal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to open up an old thread, just wondering what dimensions you used for bricks and Mortar? the ones I used produced results but not as good as the above, though the bricks look too small to me anyway. (maybe I misread the dimensions I was given?) 

 

For the chimney stacks I modelled my bricks full size in the software I use. Full size being 215mm long 102mm deep 65mm high with 12mm mortar joint.

 

This means the mortar joint is about 0.16 of a mm at 4mm scale. The mortar was recessed the same amount. This shouldn't really have been printable at Shapeways, but did print a visible texture as you can see in the photo near the top of this thread.

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the chimney stacks I modelled my bricks full size in the software I use. Full size being 215mm long 102mm deep 65mm high with 12mm mortar joint.

 

This means the mortar joint is about 0.16 of a mm at 4mm scale. The mortar was recessed the same amount. This shouldn't really have been printable at Shapeways, but did print a visible texture as you can see in the photo near the top of this thread.

 

Peter

 

Sounds like a similar size to what I used. Maybe it's a print orientation issue, mine are nowhere near as nicely defined as yours. Might try again in FUD, though I think the texture of WSF works in its favour for brickwork. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did my mortar lines at 0.2 mm and the bricks at 3mm by 0.8mm.

It was quite hit and miss. Some sides came out quite well, but never brilliant, others sides it was hardly discernable.

 

When I tried it on some stonework, trying to represent the mortar lines between some faience work, I got a serious of amorphous lumps - very disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just coming back to this thread again as I've just drawn this as an experiment in Sketchup:

 

post-21854-0-10483700-1447342152_thumb.jpg

Blodwell Junction Signal Box, at least the brick portion of it. I think I missed my vocation - build up like the real thing from thousands of individual bricks, and not just in plain bond either - this is goes by the very catchy title of Raked English Garden Wall Bond. I THINK it should have been the Flemish version though it's hard to work out from pics what it is as the real thing was evidently built up on the fly with all manner of out of pattern sizes being thrown in to the mix. A very nice picture of an earlier box at Towyn showed it to be the bond I went with there, so I went with it. I don't expect anyone will ever notice or care mind! 

 

Now to print it! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate your efforts, having done a few building fronts in brickwork there is no simple easy way that I have found. It looks good.

 

My method is to draw a couple of courses then copy them, that works fine for the big sections of brickwork but any windows etc have to be manually tidied normally line by line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That definitely looks like Garden Wall Bond, never seen it referred to a Raked English Garden Bond, but that is probably the official name. It is quite common up our way as it is commonly used for NORI brick built buildings round here. Sometimes the number of rows of stretchers is changed. I have seen building with, I think 7 rows, which I think is described as American Bond. I have also counted 5 rows of stretchers, which might be what some call French Bond, but not sure. Not sure why these bonds are used locally, but it does make it easier to date(approximately) some buildings, as NORI brick production started in late 1880s. It seems to only be used in what are obviously NORI brick built buildings. As the brick is so hard, it looks almost as good as it did when the building was built, and has a classic brick red colour.

I have seen other bonds used on old mill buildings, and am therefore pretty certain they are older buildings. One I was looking at a week ago, had stone foundations, and much of the ground floor was stone. Again certainly an older building, especially as NORI brick is water resistant so ideal for foundations, especially next to a canal.

 

It does seem an unusual bond to use for a small building, as corners are more complex, so wonder if it as done for some odd reason. Maybe even an exercise for trainee bricklayers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to wikipedia where I found the patterns in the first place the raking bond is just a fancier version of garden wall bond. It was definitely used for all the Cambrian Duton boxes. Sadly I've had issues with the individual components causing aggro for 3D printing, so the drawing board has been revisited and the Porth Y Waen box has been drawn again with individual bricks, but this time not as individual components. Went with the vaguely Flemish style of the real thing for accuracy this time. These are Tyers boxes, so perhaps that explains the different choice for bond. 

 

post-21854-0-86395000-1447607208_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Had a search through for Cambrian Duton signal boxes. Most photos not very clear but did find one where I could count bricks, and yes, it was garden wall bond. This variety of different brick bonds being used, is one reason I would like to see something about brickwork in one of the model railway magazines. I am sure there are enough experts out there to shine some light on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Had a search through for Cambrian Duton signal boxes. Most photos not very clear but did find one where I could count bricks, and yes, it was garden wall bond. This variety of different brick bonds being used, is one reason I would like to see something about brickwork in one of the model railway magazines. I am sure there are enough experts out there to shine some light on the subject.

 

I live near one of them which is handy :) Sadly no Tyer ones survived, at least I don't know of any. In fact I can only think of 3 that were ever built, all in spitting distance from Llanymynech Hill.

 

I was amazed at the variety of bonds on wikipedia, still I learnt a lot that will be quite useful I'm sure! 

 

What interested me most about this is the bond appears to have been imposed as part of the Signal Box design, I had it in my head that the building would have been in the charge of the railway co, and the Signal instruments only would have been supplied by the Signal companies. I guess they were a lot more involved than I had imagined. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the signal boxes were also designed by same companies which supplied signals. Granted some railway companies designed their own to their own style, the classic Midland design comes to mind, but like many building projects , jobs would be subcontracted, so similar designs may be shared by different railway companies.

It would be interesting to know why GW bond was used. I wonder what other buildings this company built. Are the bricks local? If there are any loose bricks around, possibly from demolished buildings, they should indicate which company made the bricks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've put my development of larger 3D printed brick structures on hold until the production costs drop dramatically. I'm sure they will eventually.

 

post-18634-0-53119100-1448625639.jpg

 

This OO scale terraced house (based on Scalescenes) I modelled, could be made available on Shapeways. It's uploaded there, but is flagged as not for sale. At 335 Euros, before I even add any margin for me, I didn't think there would be any takers.

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.