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Didcot Newbury southampton railway revival


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Don't know if this has been posted previously, so here goes:

 

http://www.didcotnewburyandsouthamptonrailway.co.uk

 

There is a proposal to reopen the DNS using the original track formation between Whitchurch and Didcot and then running parallel to the A34 south of Whitchurch with proposals to open a link with the main line at Micheldever or further down towards Romsey/Southampton. Apparently re opening the station at Winchester Chesil and using the Hockley viaduct adjacent to the m3 are non starters. The benefits being suggested are a further route for the diversion of freight traffic from Southampton to the North and a direct route from southampton to Cambridge etc via the Evergreen 3 route.

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Yawn.... :boredom: . yet another bunch of fantasy revivalists desperate to find a use for their pet project - maybe they should have a word with the lot wanting to restore the Meon valley a few years ago. :fool:

 

In the real world the DNSR is well and truly dead and berried with very few bits existent today - and even fewer that would be of any use when building a brand new railway (which is what it would be classed as - remember the Borders railway has to be built to current standards even though the formation was previously used for a railway)

 

As far as passengers are concerned, Basingstoke and Reading are far too important to avoid.

 

As for freight you can get the same 'benefits' at a far lower cost by doing some of the following

 

(1) Dynamic loops between Eastleigh and Wortling Junction.

(2) Grade seperated junction at Basingstoke to remove conflicts

(3) Dito at Reading west.

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The problem with these 'schemes' is that local newspapers are incapable of telling the difference between a properly costed and funded Network Rail scheme that's actually going to happen, and a pressure group of a few local pensioners saying their pipe dream should happen. Next thing you know the reopening will be presented in the local news as a dead certainty.

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The (in)famous Newbury By-pass and associated link roads took out much of the formation in that area, as well as the woodland and SSSI areas that the protests were about. Other sections north of Whitchurch were used for the dual carriageway as the road was improved in the 70s and 80s.

 

Pete

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Ah, some one's trying to compete with the 'New S&DJR' as being a bunch of dreaming no-hopers. All that money spent, and still going to be spent, on Reading, and they're going to send freight up via Newbury - yeah right. 

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I've heard the term "Crayonista" to describe, in a derogatory way, people who draw lines on maps with crayons with little regard for practicality. The excellent London Reconnections site is a good one for crayonista proposals (and rebuffs) in the comment sections.

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I think its like a lot of these proposals... should it have closed in the 60s, knowing then what we know now? Probably not. Would there be a use for such a railway today if it had been retained? Probably Yes. Is it cost effective to rebuild it all now? Almost certainly not. 

 

Of the 4 North/South lines in existence in the 50s (GWR Bristol/Weymouth, S&DJR, M&SWJR and DN&SR) it is a shame that only one survives, and then in such a fashion to preclude much more than its current capacity. But rebuilding in a complete form any of these would be prohibitive - albeit that I can see cases being made for partial re-openings (eg S&D north of Poole to remove commuter traffic).

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Of the 4 North/South lines in existence in the 50s (GWR Bristol/Weymouth, S&DJR, M&SWJR and DN&SR) it is a shame that only one survives, and then in such a fashion to preclude much more than its current capacity. But rebuilding in a complete form any of these would be prohibitive - albeit that I can see cases being made for partial re-openings (eg S&D north of Poole to remove commuter traffic).

When you think about it, it's quite odd that we still have the Bristol-Weymouth service. When I consider the Castle Cary-Dorchester line, and particularly when I compare it with some lines that didn't survive, I can't really discern any outstanding qualities that would have ensured its retention: it doesn't serve any major settlement that isn't served by other lines, and the through journeys it enables could mostly be accomplished by other routes. (that's not necessarily my opinion, but it would be typical of Beeching-era thought)

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Its laughable - NR are putting in a grade separated junction at Reading to increase capacity. Would this harebrained scheme put them in at Didcot too or would Midlands/Southampton freight trains cross the GWML on the flat to/from the DNS formation.............and.....oh wait, the old DNS embankment has been removed between Didcot station and the Hagbourne road to make way for a new road and other developments.

 

DNS in this case stands for Do Not Start :)

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When you think about it, it's quite odd that we still have the Bristol-Weymouth service. When I consider the Castle Cary-Dorchester line, and particularly when I compare it with some lines that didn't survive, I can't really discern any outstanding qualities that would have ensured its retention: it doesn't serve any major settlement that isn't served by other lines, and the through journeys it enables could mostly be accomplished by other routes. (that's not necessarily my opinion, but it would be typical of Beeching-era thought)

 

Would have made more sense to have closed it and kept the S&D. Although that was hampered by poor connections with ex-GW lines at the northern end. Perhaps a spur connecting to the ex-GW line at Midford and send trains round via Limpley Stoke into Bath Spa?

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When you think about it, it's quite odd that we still have the Bristol-Weymouth service. When I consider the Castle Cary-Dorchester line, and particularly when I compare it with some lines that didn't survive, I can't really discern any outstanding qualities that would have ensured its retention: it doesn't serve any major settlement that isn't served by other lines, and it could have been argued that the through journeys it enables could mostly be accomplished by other routes. (that's not necessarily my opinion, but it would be typical of Beeching-era thought)

 

Didn't Bristol-Weymouth stay almost by default, because the S&D didn't - there was a need to keep one line through the area, and the Bristol-Weymouth one was the least costly to keep, not just on it's own terms, but because it shared the (mostly GWR) infrastructure that couldn't be abandoned at the North end whereas the S&D would have also meant the retention of duplicate Midland routes in Bristol/Bath?

 

As far as passengers are concerned, Basingstoke and Reading are far too important to avoid.

 

As for freight you can get the same 'benefits' at a far lower cost by doing some of the following

 

(1) Dynamic loops between Eastleigh and Wortling Junction.

(2) Grade seperated junction at Basingstoke to remove conflicts

(3) Dito at Reading west.

 

As far as passengers are concerned, how many folk in Newbury actually want to go to Didcot?

 

As far as freight is concerned, #3 is already under way AFAIK - and I suspect (gut feeling) capacity North of Didcot will become a limiting factor in how much freight can be moved before #1 needs to happen.  ;)

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As far as freight is concerned, #3 is already under way AFAIK - and I suspect (gut feeling) capacity North of Didcot will become a limiting factor in how much freight can be moved before #1 needs to happen.  ;)

 

Didcot - Oxford is already pretty full. Appleford, for example has a far worse service now than it had 30 years ago as stops have been withdrawn to free up paths. North of Aynho Junction I imagine you run into capacity problems again

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...

 

As far as passengers are concerned, how many folk in Newbury actually want to go to Didcot?

...

Judging from my last visit to Didcot (the town), the words "in Newbury" are a bit superfluous in the question above. (Sorry, Didcot).

On the other hand, when I lived in Newbury/Thatcham area, it was a right pain getting to anywhere but the Reading direction by public transport. A link to Didcot from Newbury would have made visits to Oxford and trips down the M4 corridor to the Swindon/Bristol direction a lot easier. 

Not going to happen though.

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As far as freight is concerned, #3 is already under way AFAIK - and I suspect (gut feeling) capacity North of Didcot will become a limiting factor in how much freight can be moved before #1 needs to happen.  ;)

 

I was actually thinking of doing something by Reading West station where the Berks & Hants line to the west interacts with Basingstoke - Didcot freights via the avoiding line as I am aware that the conflicts with Reading - Didcot services will be removed by the flyover under construction at Reading

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Judging from my last visit to Didcot (the town), the words "in Newbury" are a bit superfluous in the question above. (Sorry, Didcot).

On the other hand, when I lived in Newbury/Thatcham area, it was a right pain getting to anywhere but the Reading direction by public transport. A link to Didcot from Newbury would have made visits to Oxford and trips down the M4 corridor to the Swindon/Bristol direction a lot easier. 

Not going to happen though.

 

Though to be fair you can get to a lot of places from Reading.

 

The real Berks/Bucks/Oxon pain is getting to nothern Bucks from the Thames valley.  High Wycombe or Aylesbury might as well be on another planet - you have to go into London and back, or right out to Banbury and double back.  All because of the short-sighted Bourne End to High Wycombe closure.

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A few interesting points put forward by some, but in latter years the Bristol to Salisbury route was a preferred option for S&DJR re-routing, having said that, the Southampton, Salisbury, Bradford Junction , Thingley Junction, Didcot route would be better ( although a little longer) than a wholesale re-opening of the old slow DN &S.

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The A34 is a very, very busy road. Drive down there late evening and every lay-by (both north and southbound)is full of large articulated lorries parked up for the night.

 

But resurecting the DNS is not the way to go. The new electric spine and infrastructrue improvements at Reading will increase capacity.

 

The DNS was only ever a slow, meandering cross-country line. Whilst a lot of WW2 traffic went over it, it was never engineered for speed.

 

An example from February 1953:

 

Didcot d.1242 (direct via DNS) Southampton a.1558

Didcot d.1304 (change at Reading and Basingstoke) Southampton a.1520

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Bunch of raving nutters I reckon.  I can just see the cheery citizens of Didcot happily agreeing to the rebuilding of a railway embankment which was demolished to provide a sensible road link to their new shopping centre and to avoid the town centre.  Plus of course all the equally happy souls who will give up their houses and businesses built across the old roadbed in various places around both didcot and Newbury as well as in between teh two towns.

 

As for going south of Newbury I'm sure the citizens of that town will be delighted by the closure of the bypass and having its traffic rerouted through teh town - as will also be happening in Whitchurch and Winchester.  

 

I reckon it is really no more than a bit of a joke to see how many idiots will seriously buy into and support the idea - probably been started by a couple of 16 year olds who are already bored at the start of the holidays.

 

BTW for factual accuracy.  The junction at Reading West (Oxford Road Jcn) will remain a flat junction - and without major demolitions in the vicinity is ever likely to remain so.  Reading West Jcn, which is not at Reading West, is becoming a partially grade separated junction with the Main Lines going onto a flyover above that end of Oxford Road curve.  However as I understand things the curve will still make a flat junction with the Relief Lines and all the drawings continue to show that arrangement as do the works on the ground.

 

Capacity north of Oxford could be improved by resignalling although possibly loops might help - there is plenty of space for that to be done at Banbury where the old Relief Lines southwards towards Kings Sutton could easily be accommodated but less chance for long loops between Wolvercot Jcn and Aynho although additional Relief Lines are underway between Oxford North Jcn and Wolvercot of course.   Capacity north of Didcot has of course been eased following the end of the coal trains.   I also vaguely recall seeing somewhere a proposal to reinstate the Relief Lines between Didcot East End and Didcot North Jcn - presumably more as long loops rather than necessarily going back to through running lines?

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