OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[Andy Y]

Get yourself building - http://www.marcmodels.co.uk/Night%20Ferry%20Page.html - they're lovely kits to make.

[dibber25]

Get yourself building - http://www.marcmodels.co.uk/Night%20Ferry%20Page.html - they're lovely kits to make.

They are, indeed. Mike Radford developed them for Model Rail at my behest. I have one which George Dent built for the magazine article. MARC also does the SNCF Fourgons and that fascinating SR baggage van with the French-style cupola. All because I wanted to model the 'Night Ferry'!! (CJL)

[JSpencer]

One can always cheat with HO stuff:

 

 

I have to say that the slow running characteristics of this 71 is astounding.

[leopardml2341]

One can always cheat with HO stuff:

image.jpg

I have to say that the slow running characteristics of this 71 is astounding.

 

Very slow I would expect, what with no third rail or overhead

[JSpencer]

Very slow I would expect, what with no third rail or overhead

 

To be honest, I have had a hard time trying to find a model shop which has IL-1 (peco 3rd rail) in stock and will also post it! When I visit the UK, it is miracle if they have IL-1 in stock as well.

 

The layout is fiitted-for overhead on the outer circuit but I have not had time to put it back up since the house move.

Despite its age, I'm still developing this layout further basically because I will not have time to scrap it and start all again.

 

The 71 needs to have bits added, this I will do only after a proper running in and sound conversion.

The 71 has the best slow speed control on a Diesel or Electric I have ever seen, beating Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan by some margin. However the trade off is a low top speed and pulling power (for which the Hornby 71 is more suited).

[andybuttterworth1962]

Hi All

 

Lights on and sound fitted - Hats off to Biff and Charlie - another great project. I do like the cab light on/off when moving/stationary - nice tough that.

 

If its any help to others I have used Hob-E-Lube Premium Gear Lube HL664 and ran it in for an hour - it is noticeably quieter.

 

As others have found top speed is approx 60mph but slow speed control is superb. Maybe that is the compromise with a coreless motor?

 

Haulage wise I have 2xBG + 9xNPV/NAV hanging off the hook with no problems.

 

 

 

All in all another fine model!

 

Regards

Andy

[7013]

Or if you are on a budget and cannot afford a MARC models kit, try getting an old Tri-Ang pullman and a bit of paint and a set of transfers, and if you squint your eyes they look OK

Edited June 2, 2017 by 7013

[davesol]

I echo the hopes of previous recent posters regarding suitable stock for the HA electric loco.

Havng ordered the Hattons E5015, (and patient enough to wait) some type 'U' Pullmans are now needed.

Contemplating stretching a Dublo Aries but must visit the K&ESR to check the salient dimensions of the preserved coach.

Endorse the desire for some type 'F' Wagons-Lit, need four but a) cost prohibitive if using the admirable brass kits and b) are my skills up to it?  Could a resin body be designed and made?  One line I am investigating.  

Forgons for the 'Night Ferry' would be nice and ferry vans? Just keep hoping

Have drifted away from the core subject of this topic, but I am most satisfied with my E5004 and that I stuck with DJ model and think the end product is excellent and to be recommended.

 

Dave Solley

[JSpencer]

I echo the hopes of previous recent posters regarding suitable stock for the HA electric loco.

Havng ordered the Hattons E5015, (and patient enough to wait) some type 'U' Pullmans are now needed.

Contemplating stretching a Dublo Aries but must visit the K&ESR to check the salient dimensions of the preserved coach.

Endorse the desire for some type 'F' Wagons-Lit, need four but a) cost prohibitive if using the admirable brass kits and b) are my skills up to it?  Could a resin body be designed and made?  One line I am investigating.  

Forgons for the 'Night Ferry' would be nice and ferry vans? Just keep hoping

Have drifted away from the core subject of this topic, but I am most satisfied with my E5004 and that I stuck with DJ model and think the end product is excellent and to be recommended.

 

Dave Solley

You could get the Hornby Golden Arrow train pack with Appledore. While searching I came across a pick/article of Appledore and E5015:

 

 

Though I cannot remember where I found it.

[Al51]

You could get the Hornby Golden Arrow train pack with Appledore. While searching I came across a pick/article of Appledore and E5015:

 

image.jpg

 

Though I cannot remember where I found it.

Rails have the Festival of Britain 'U' type pullman coaches slit from the Golden Arrow Last Steam Run set.

https://railsofsheffield.com/set-of-3-festival-of-britain-u-type-pullman-car-coaches-r3400coaches-Hornby-JJJA33156.aspx?utm_source=Mailing+List&utm_campaign=0f39b2c572-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_04_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d01bc2ed-0f39b2c572-5471609

 

Al

[dibber25]

Rails have the Festival of Britain 'U' type pullman coaches slit from the Golden Arrow Last Steam Run set.

https://railsofsheffield.com/set-of-3-festival-of-britain-u-type-pullman-car-coaches-r3400coaches-Hornby-JJJA33156.aspx?utm_source=Mailing+List&utm_campaign=0f39b2c572-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_04_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74d01bc2ed-0f39b2c572-5471609

 

Al

These are standard Hornby Pullmans but with squared toilet and pantry windows to match the 'U' type cars but are not 'U' type cars. The 'U's - there were only parlour and kitchen firsts and one bar car - had shallower windows and reverted to the truss-type underframe. The only 'U' type car in RTR is the old Hornby-Dublo Aries which was an odd-ball one-off and the model is under scale length. (CJL)

[davesol]

These are standard Hornby Pullmans but with squared toilet and pantry windows to match the 'U' type cars but are not 'U' type cars. The 'U's - there were only parlour and kitchen firsts and one bar car - had shallower windows and reverted to the truss-type underframe. The only 'U' type car in RTR is the old Hornby-Dublo Aries which was an odd-ball one-off and the model is under scale length. (CJL)

Thank you for that, I thought I had rejected these models when Hornby first issued them. Not only were the windows and underframe incorrect, the roof was not cut back over the doors, the door windows were smaller and the bogies were 'Gresley' pattern. In spite of the length the old Hornby Dublo 'Aries' was more accurate. My visit to Rolvenden was to check window depth and spacings.  I think one other 'U' is 'Orion' at Peco's Seaton facility.

 

Biggest problem with this hobby is that when you know something is inaccurate it is rejected. However ignorance of errors can make a model more acceptable. We all have our pet hates, mine is brake shoes in line with bogie sideframes, losing track of how many I have corrected to MY satisfaction. Pernickety or what!

 

Dave Solley

Edited June 2, 2017 by davesol

[davesol]

LS Models do (did?  I bought some about 3 years ago) F type CIWL sleeping cars, but in HO, of course. I was thinking of scratch building some ex-Nord fourgons to some scale between 3.5 and 4 mm to the foot to make a gentle transition between the HA and the sleeping cars, to disguise the difference in scale. Not sure whether it would work visually, though. Also I have sought plans for those fourgons that are suitable for building a model, but have yet to find any.

I'd reckon that RTR F-type CIWL cars in 4mm/foot are probably as likely as finding a duff bottle of Hirondelle.

Mike

The Southern Railway's three to diagram 3091 are shown in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans' ISBN O 85361 428 8 if thats any help.

 

Dave Solley

Edited June 3, 2017 by davesol

[olivegreen]

The Southern Railway's three to diagram 3091 are shown in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans' ISBN O 85361 428 8 if thats any help.

 

Dave Solley

 

Thanks for the reference - I have Mike King's drawings of the SR vans in fact, but it is drawings of the French ones (ex- Nord railway) that seem impossible to find! 

[dibber25]

Thank you for that, I thought I had rejected these models when Hornby first issued them. Not only were the windows and underframe incorrect, the roof was not cut back over the doors, the door windows were smaller and the bogies were 'Gresley' pattern. In spite of the length the old Hornby Dublo 'Aries' was more accurate. My visit to Rolvenden was to check window depth and spacings.  I think one other 'U' is 'Orion' at Peco's Seaton facility.

 

Biggest problem with this hobby is that when you know something is inaccurate it is rejected. However ignorance of errors can make a model more acceptable. We all have our pet hates, mine is brake shoes in line with bogie sideframes, losing track of how many I have corrected to MY satisfaction. Pernickety or what!

 

Dave Solley

The Pullmans which Hornby have done for the Golden Arrow pack are OK - correct as far as they go. It's just not correct to call them 'U' type cars. They are older cars which were altered to better match the U types. Minerva, which Hornby shows as a Kitchen First, became a Guard Parlour car (so did Car No. 208) with one vestibule adapted as a guard's van and fitted with the distinctive door with a droplight instead of an oval window. This was because the Southern had few Pullman brakes (only those used on the Bournemouth Belle) and needed brake coaches to run with the U-Types. There were no third class or brake cars in the U-type series, though the First Class cars later received 2+1 seating instead of 1+1. Despite this, they were always classified as first class cars. (CJL)

[Ian Hargrave]

I echo the hopes of previous recent posters regarding suitable stock for the HA electric loco.

Havng ordered the Hattons E5015, (and patient enough to wait) some type 'U' Pullmans are now needed.

Contemplating stretching a Dublo Aries but must visit the K&ESR to check the salient dimensions of the preserved coach.

Endorse the desire for some type 'F' Wagons-Lit, need four but a) cost prohibitive if using the admirable brass kits and b) are my skills up to it?  Could a resin body be designed and made?  One line I am investigating.  

Forgons for the 'Night Ferry' would be nice and ferry vans? Just keep hoping

Have drifted away from the core subject of this topic, but I am most satisfied with my E5004 and that I stuck with DJ model and think the end product is excellent and to be recommended.

 

Dave Solley

I've just posted on the Hattons 71 thread with regard to the Arrow.You might find it useful to take a look.

[Hilux5972]

Personally, I feel like your just shamelessly promoting your own video again for personal praise. But I can't say much because I do the same lol.

[mikesndbs]

Personally, I feel like your just shamelessly promoting your own video again for personal praise. But I can't say much because I do the same lol.

 

Hardly, it's already done well so no point promoting it as you say, in fact like I said I was asking how it stacks up now that all the new bits are known about and was wondering if in fact, my efforts were not doing justice to Dave's model.

Clearly however if you are able to come to the wrong conclusion then others might so I will remove the question. 

[Hilux5972]

If you read my last sentence correctly, you would realise I was joking.

[7013]

I really don't know how to break this news to my fellow modellers as it may come as a great shock to some.

Today I fitted a 21pin Lenz Silver to my E5004

Below is the number of faults I have found and the adjustments I have had to make

ZERO.

 

The loco started as smooth as the driven snow, no juddering, no nothing other than silky smooth acceleration/deceleration.

Direction lights, headcode illumination and cab lights work perfectly.

Adjustments to CVs-none.

The only thing that is odd is that both headcodes are illuminated at the same time, probably not prototypical but I am sure some DCC wizard will be able to tell me how to make them directional if indeed that is correct.

Having read some of the adjustments that have been made to obtain smooth running I was armed with all the adjustments that people had made in readiness to start the process of altering the CVs.

I suppose I may be lucky or maybe others have been unlucky, but this model appears to run beautifully. I have yet to try top speed, that will have to wait until I next go to my club, but even if it is only around 60 mph that will not bother me too much as I rarely run locos at full speed

Have to say that this model is right up there with the best as far as I am concerned. 

[NIK]

 

A few more test results using Bachmann Mk1 coaches to load up the Class 71.

The speed is measured with a JMRI Jython script measuring the time between occupied indications from an NCE block sensor (current sensor) connected to a short section of insulated track. The Mk1 coaches don't have pickups so only the current from the loco is detected.

 

Nick

Edited June 4, 2017 by NIK

[metropolitan cammell]

I really don't know how to break this news to my fellow modellers as it may come as a great shock to some.

Today I fitted a 21pin Lenz Silver to my E5004

Below is the number of faults I have found and the adjustments I have had to make

ZERO.

 

The loco started as smooth as the driven snow, no juddering, no nothing other than silky smooth acceleration/deceleration.

Direction lights, headcode illumination and cab lights work perfectly.

Adjustments to CVs-none.

The only thing that is odd is that both headcodes are illuminated at the same time, probably not prototypical but I am sure some DCC wizard will be able to tell me how to make them directional if indeed that is correct.

Having read some of the adjustments that have been made to obtain smooth running I was armed with all the adjustments that people had made in readiness to start the process of altering the CVs.

I suppose I may be lucky or maybe others have been unlucky, but this model appears to run beautifully. I have yet to try top speed, that will have to wait until I next go to my club, but even if it is only around 60 mph that will not bother me too much as I rarely run locos at full speed

Have to say that this model is right up there with the best as far as I am concerned.

 

I too fitted a lenz silver that worked fine strait from the box.

 

The head codes are wired in parallel so both will come on at the same time, imo the easiest way to change it is to swap the wires for the cab lights and the head codes and forget about the cab lights.

[7013]

If that is the case with the head code lights I will probably leave them as they are as I can live with both being on at the same time

[miles73128]

Very interesting, if thats linear, it would do down to 35mph ish with 8/9 on?

TOP SCALE SPEED VS NUMBER OF COACHES A.PNG

 

A few more test results using Bachmann Mk1 coaches to load up the Class 71.

The speed is measured with a JMRI Jython script measuring the time between occupied indications from an NCE block sensor (current sensor) connected to a short section of insulated track. The Mk1 coaches don't have pickups so only the current from the loco is detected.

 

Nick

[NIK]

Very interesting, if thats linear, it would do down to 35mph ish with 8/9 on?

 

Hi,

 

I've run out of Bachmann Mk1 coaches to go up to 9 coaches.

 

I've got lots of Bachmann 2-EPB trailer cars but they trigger the Block detector (each trailer must have a circuit to regenerate the DCC return for the lighting effects - two independent lighting functions from just a two pole connector).

 

Regards, Nick