OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[SGP]

Well, mine has arrived. Has it been worth the wait? For me ... no. 

As I only want a representation of E5000 in a showcase, I'm not too bothered about the running qualities and as a limited edition I'm loathe to modify and renumber it. 

My main reason for waiting for the DJM model was the promise of a 74 to match it but that doesn't really look likely now. I've had time to hack a 74 from a Hornby 71.

Hornby's 71 model has the booster showing through the side window whereas the DJM 71 has a blacked out window. Surely with a smaller motor there was room to add that in such a large window? 

I'm not saying that the DJM model is crap, it is better than Hornby's in a lot of areas but I think I'll be buying a Hornby and considering my options. When two manufacturers bring out the same model there'll be good and bad in both. Why then are there four versions of the Class 52? There's Dapol wasting their time fixing something that isn't broken.

 

 

Nothing wrong with the handrails. Watch from 1.42 as the model rotates, and at 1.59, facing the camera, it all looks perfectly symmetrical to me. I think camera angles, perspective and parallax all have a role in deceiving us. This looks fine to me. 

My example (without a magnifying glass) has one handrail higher than the other at one end ... the same end as the previous photo and the same inclination. Going around the sides, at both ends the handrail is attached noticeably higher under the drivers side window than the other side. These handrails are flimsy and only attached at two points whereas Hornby's are attached at three points and a lot thicker. I've noticed that some Hornby versions have the same cock-eyed positioning of these handrails at the front ends.

[davesol]

Most satisfied, E5004 arrived this morning, superb example of miniature engineering.

Looks right and hope to visit the club soon to lubricate and run in this loco.

Complements to all involved.

Dave S

[RFS]

Just got my replacement loco today - the original had a paint mark on the roof that was clearly visible.

 

I've fitted it with a Lenz Silver21+ decoder and it took a while for me to work out that the headcode lights come on with F5. I would have thought the documentation would have listed what the function numbers are?

 

But my main concern is the top speed.  I'm using a Lenz LZV100 controller at default voltage, and use automation with RR&Co Traincontroller.  Using its profiling method (running the loco over 3 sections with occupancy detectors) it records the top speed in both directions as only 56 mph.  (Compare this to a Heljan 33 which has a top speed at maximim CV5 value of 120 mph).  Is this normal?  If so, I'm a bit disappointed. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by RFS

[amwells]

When two manufacturers bring out the same model there'll be good and bad in both. Why then are there four versions of the Class 52? There's Dapol wasting their time fixing something that isn't broken.

OT and with all due respect, the Dapol 52 is miles ahead of any of the other offerings (in my view!).

[John M Upton]

Why then are there four versions of the Class 52? There's Dapol wasting their time fixing something that isn't broken.

 

It is generally regarded that the Dapol Class 52 (which by the way was a product overseen by the very same man that has brought you this 71) is the definitive model of this popular class, the other three versions range from the acceptable (Heljan) through to the dire (Lima) and the awful (Hornby) all three of which are no longer made although the Hornby one may still resuface as a Railroad model from time to time I suppose.  I have owned Western's from all four manufacturers over the years and the Dapol was by far and away the best by far.

 

Back to the subject proper, once the Crowd Funders have theirs, will any 71's go on general sale to us?  I did not participate in the Crowd Funding as my layout at the time did not warrant it but my new under construction one most definitely can.

[DJM Dave]

It is generally regarded that the Dapol Class 52 (which by the way was a product overseen by the very same man that has brought you this 71) is the definitive model of this popular class, the other three versions range from the acceptable (Heljan) through to the dire (Lima) and the awful (Hornby) all three of which are no longer made although the Hornby one may still resuface as a Railroad model from time to time I suppose.  I have owned Western's from all four manufacturers over the years and the Dapol was by far and away the best by far.

 

Back to the subject proper, once the Crowd Funders have theirs, will any 71's go on general sale to us?  I did not participate in the Crowd Funding as my layout at the time did not warrant it but my new under construction one most definitely can.

Hi John,

 

Due to a rival model being launched prior to mine, some people decided to withdraw from the crowdfunding model, so I know Kernow has a very limited amount of all 5 models in stock available for order immediately. However I stress in stock now, as once they are gone........they are gone.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

[tetsudofan]

Hornby's 71 model has the booster showing through the side window whereas the DJM 71 has a blacked out window. Surely with a smaller motor there was room to add that in such a large window? 

I'm not saying that the DJM model is crap, it is better than Hornby's in a lot of areas but I think I'll be buying a Hornby and considering my options.

 

The blacked out window was discussed many moons ago and, if I remember correctly, it was a toss-up between seeing the booster or having the model prepared for dcc and sound. It was a case of having one or the other......

 

Try fitting sound to a Hornby Cl.71......

 

Keith

[Hilux5972]

The blacked out window was discussed many moons ago and, if I remember correctly, it was a toss-up between seeing the booster or having the model prepared for dcc and sound. It was a case of having one or the other......

 

Try fitting sound to a Hornby Cl.71......

 

Keith

I believe Dave said the reason was that on the real loco, the Booster isnt seen that clearly due to it not being right by the window.

[Budgie]

I've fitted it with a Lenz Silver21+ decoder and it took a while for me to work out that the headcode lights come on with F5. I would have thought the documentation would have listed what the function numbers are?

The Lenz Silver 21+ decoder uses F3 to change the output to shunting speed. You might like to take a look at the decoder's documentation for more info on that.

 

But my main concern is the top speed.  I'm using a Lenz LZV100 controller at default voltage, and use automation with RR&Co Traincontroller.  Using its profiling method (running the loco over 3 sections with occupancy detectors) it records the top speed in both directions as only 56 mph.  (Compare this to a Heljan 33 which has a top speed at maximim CV5 value of 120 mph).  Is this normal?  If so, I'm a bit disappointed.

According to my experiments, based on using a Lenz DCC system which puts the default 16 volts DCC onto the track, the Lenz Silver 21+ decoder sends just 9.7 volts DC to the motor. The decoder I use, the DCC Concepts Zen Z218 sends 11.6 volts DC to the motor. You may find it better to replace the Lenz Silver 21+ with a DCC Concepts ZN8D (Zen 8-pin mini, outputs 15.6 volts DC) plugged into a 21-pin to 8-pin adaptor (such as Bachmann 36-559 or DCC Concepts DCC-218), which should make your loco go a fair bit faster.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Budgie

[mikesndbs]

Just got my replacement loco today - the original had a paint mark on the roof that was clearly visible.

 

I've fitted it with a Lenz Silver21+ decoder and it took a while for me to work out that the headcode lights come on with F5. I would have thought the documentation would have listed what the function numbers are?

 

But my main concern is the top speed.  I'm using a Lenz LZV100 controller at default voltage, and use automation with RR&Co Traincontroller.  Using its profiling method (running the loco over 3 sections with occupancy detectors) it records the top speed in both directions as only 56 mph.  (Compare this to a Heljan 33 which has a top speed at maximim CV5 value of 120 mph).  Is this normal?  If so, I'm a bit disappointed. 

 

 

Class 33 had a top speed of 85mph my 71 has improved its top speed with running

[John M Upton]

Class 33 had a top speed of 85mph my 71 has improved its top speed with running

 

Well on paper a Class 33 has a top speed of 85 mph.  I traveled behind a pair that was pushing a ton once many years ago before the days of OTMR et-al...

[woodenhead]

Hi John,

 

Due to a rival model being launched prior to mine, some people decided to withdraw from the crowdfunding model, so I know Kernow has a very limited amount of all 5 models in stock available for order immediately. However I stress in stock now, as once they are gone........they are gone.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

F%&@

[Roy Langridge]

Well, mine has arrived. Has it been worth the wait? For me ... no. 

As I only want a representation of E5000 in a showcase, I'm not too bothered about the running qualities and as a limited edition I'm loathe to modify and renumber it. 

My main reason for waiting for the DJM model was the promise of a 74 to match it but that doesn't really look likely now. I've had time to hack a 74 from a Hornby 71.

Hornby's 71 model has the booster showing through the side window whereas the DJM 71 has a blacked out window. Surely with a smaller motor there was room to add that in such a large window? 

I'm not saying that the DJM model is crap, it is better than Hornby's in a lot of areas but I think I'll be buying a Hornby and considering my options. When two manufacturers bring out the same model there'll be good and bad in both. Why then are there four versions of the Class 52? There's Dapol wasting their time fixing something that isn't broken.

My example (without a magnifying glass) has one handrail higher than the other at one end ... the same end as the previous photo and the same inclination. Going around the sides, at both ends the handrail is attached noticeably higher under the drivers side window than the other side. These handrails are flimsy and only attached at two points whereas Hornby's are attached at three points and a lot thicker. I've noticed that some Hornby versions have the same cock-eyed positioning of these handrails at the front ends.

 

One has to wonder why you bought it in the first place? From your previous email it appeared you already wanted the cheaper option whatever that may be and had decided that the DJ model was not what you wanted. Oh, and if the booster is a problem, turn the loco through 180 degrees - problem solved.

 

If hacking a Hornby Class 71 into a Class 74 is fine for display, I suggest the DJ Class 71 is perfectly adequate.

 

Roy

Edited May 18, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[Roy Langridge]

The blacked out window was discussed many moons ago and, if I remember correctly, it was a toss-up between seeing the booster or having the model prepared for dcc and sound. It was a case of having one or the other......

 

Try fitting sound to a Hornby Cl.71......

 

Keith

 

Neither of these are my photos, but I think they show the "problem" well. The Hornby booster looks nothing like the real one in terms of viewing it

http://davejonesphotography.zenfolio.com/p139860472/h8a4ca2d4#h8a4ca2d4

http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/modelling/picture-gallery/img/hornby_r3374_71012_aside_775.jpg

 

Quite happy with the compromise made by DJ.

 

Roy

Edited May 18, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[Gwiwer]

Well on paper a Class 33 has a top speed of 85 mph.  I traveled behind a pair that was pushing a ton once many years ago before the days of OTMR et-al...

Diving off-topic briefly I can corroborate that. I have clocked single 33s at speeds well into the 90s on several occasions. On one memorable trip a pair of them (rostered as a loco-balancing move) with just six Mk1s in tow reached 97mph. Where and when will have to remain known only to me, the driver and perhaps a very few others for a while yet. He might still be driving.

[mikesndbs]

Diving off-topic briefly I can corroborate that. I have clocked single 33s at speeds well into the 90s on several occasions. On one memorable trip a pair of them (rostered as a loco-balancing move) with just six Mk1s in tow reached 97mph. Where and when will have to remain known only to me, the driver and perhaps a very few others for a while yet. He might still be driving.

And now doubt did untold damage to the traction motors and other gear!

[PrestburyJack]

Hi John,

 

Due to a rival model being launched prior to mine, some people decided to withdraw from the crowdfunding model, so I know Kernow has a very limited amount of all 5 models in stock available for order immediately. However I stress in stock now, as once they are gone........they are gone.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

 

Hi Dave, are you saying apart from the Crowdfunded 5, and the Hattons GA, no more DJM 71s will ever be made? 

Edited May 18, 2017 by PrestburyJack

[SGP]

 

 

One has to wonder why you bought it in the first place? From your previous email it appeared you already wanted the cheaper option whatever that may be and had decided that the DJ model was not what you wanted. Oh, and if the booster is a problem, turn the loco through 180 degrees - problem solved.

Here we go, I can't have an opinion that goes against the crowd.  

If you read the post properly instead of selecting the bits you want to read and then adding some of your own ... you'll learn that cost is no worry to me ... the Hornby one is about the same price and the reason I bought the DJM one AND FOR NO OTHER REASON is because I want the 71 and 74 to be of the same parentage. As it is, it looks like I'll be buying two Hornby 71's and bunging this one in cheap for px. Hows that for saving money?

[RFS]

The Lenz Silver 21+ decoder uses F3 to change the output to shunting speed. You might like to take a look at the decoder's documentation for more info on that.

 

 

According to my experiments, based on using a Lenz DCC system which puts the default 16 volts DCC onto the track, the Lenz Silver 21+ decoder sends just 9.7 volts DC to the motor. The decoder I use, the DCC Concepts Zen Z218 sends 11.6 volts DC to the motor. You may find it better to replace the Lenz Silver 21+ with a DCC Concepts ZN8D (Zen 8-pin mini, outputs 15.6 volts DC) plugged into a 21-pin to 8-pin adaptor (such as Bachmann 36-559 or DCC Concepts DCC-218), which should make your loco go a fair bit faster.

 

Thanks for the advice.  I did check F3 and it's definitely not that as I found out when I turned it on by mistake!  Another problem with the Lenz is that slow speed running is also not good - takes off at about 4-5 mph at speed step 1 (of 128).

 

I have now tried a Zimo decoder, firstly with an MX600R connected to an 8/21 pin converter.  This now gives me 61 mph forward and 71 mph backward compared to a fairly consistent 55/56 with the Lenz.  However slow-speed running is very much improved as you'd expect with a Zimo. But I cannot get the headcode lights to come on - previously this worked with F5 on the Lenz.  So I've "borrowed" a Zimo 21-pin MX634D from one of my 2-EPBs but that is doing the same: running is much improved, but I can't get the headcode lights on.  Must be something to do with the Zimo assignment but just wondered if anyone knows what to do?  F0 works the marker lights OK, as do F1 and F2 for the cab lights. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by RFS

[DJM Dave]

Hi Dave, are you saying apart from the Crowdfunded 5, and the Hattons GA, no more DJM 71s will ever be made? 

Nope,

 

Not at all, what i'm saying is the Crowdfunded models will not be remade in the same number/livery combination ever again.

 

Please remember that at least 2 of them have a very very low production run (under 3 figures) so they will be collectors items ;-)

 

However, when or if i announce another batch i don't think it will be for a while yet. Hattons and Kernow have to sell theirs first to play fair.

 

Cheers

Dave

[woodenhead]

Here we go, I can't have an opinion that goes against the crowd.  

If you read the post properly instead of selecting the bits you want to read and then adding some of your own ... you'll learn that cost is no worry to me ... the Hornby one is about the same price and the reason I bought the DJM one AND FOR NO OTHER REASON is because I want the 71 and 74 to be of the same parentage. As it is, it looks like I'll be buying two Hornby 71's and bunging this one in cheap for px. Hows that for saving money?

It's why I said I didn't see the point in have a comparison it will end up with an argument.  You're well within your rights to have a negative opinion of the DJM version, there is nothing on RMWeb which says different.  When there are two models of the same locomotive you have to make a choice and it's going to upset someone whichever side you plump for in this day and age of with us or against us.

[DJM Dave]

Here we go, I can't have an opinion that goes against the crowd.  

If you read the post properly instead of selecting the bits you want to read and then adding some of your own ... you'll learn that cost is no worry to me ... the Hornby one is about the same price and the reason I bought the DJM one AND FOR NO OTHER REASON is because I want the 71 and 74 to be of the same parentage. As it is, it looks like I'll be buying two Hornby 71's and bunging this one in cheap for px. Hows that for saving money?

Hi mate,

 

May i just ask.....

 

You said "My main reason for waiting for the DJM model was the promise of a 74 to match it but that doesn't really look likely now" , did you sign up for one? 

 

And secondly why doesn't it look likely now?

[woodenhead]

I am tempted, but why would a 71 be hauling a couple of BGs, SWMBO didn't seem concerned either.

 

Wheres my wallet

[mikesndbs]

Hi mate,

 

May i just ask.....

 

You said "My main reason for waiting for the DJM model was the promise of a 74 to match it but that doesn't really look likely now" , did you sign up for one? 

 

And secondly why doesn't it look likely now?

 

I've signed up for a 74, still happening isn't it? 

[mikesndbs]

Right, all this talk of top speeds etc made me go and test mine, and I thought I'd share it with you in this short film.

 

 

More than enough speed for my needs, I'd estimate 75MPH, not 90 I know but with my curves LOL

 

What do you think, does any know how I could get an accurate speed?