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OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive


DJM Dave
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Interesting video. Some additional things, the DJM wiper arms are black though they were silver when new. The ride height is quite different is this due to the wheel/flange sizes or are they closer when on rails? The area above the cab windows also seems quite different with the Hornby capturing the peak better it seems to me. I do think the cab door handrails let down the DJM model quite alot, they are too baggy. Generally the assembly does not look as precise, but the colours are better than Hornby, as is the running gear by quite some margin. I'm not convinced by the head-on profile of the DJM model however, it's just not curved enough to my eyes.

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If you read Dave Jones' comments which are stronger Hatton's Dave then there it appears there was no option but to reject the whole batch.

 

Apparently no pantograph or pantograph well either, mu cables on the front, seemed heavier and the blue version had a 4 in the second character of the TOPS number.

Do you not get what I am describing?

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Do you not get what I am describing?

If that was meant to be a joke then it was not made very clear. Thank you Porcy for actually explaining it rather than just coming back with a smart comment.

Edited by Hilux5972
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I am impressed by Dave's unequivocal support for Hatton's findings. He can't be rich right now, but is putting his good name before cash-flow. Hard to argue with.

The bonus is the factory will have to take this financial hit, not Dave. It's their quality finish that is the issue, not Dave's product itself.

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Can we just have a bit of discussion about the top speed of these lovely models please?

 

My ones top scale speed is 55 mph, and the load seems to make little difference which is good.

Others have told me they are getting even less.

Like I said about its not a problem for me as i don't run fast but others I know do.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what other owners are getting.

 

Dave, are you able to share any specs about the motor?

 

Just tested the loco for current consumption, at mid speed off load it draws just 80mA which is astounding given there are also LEDs adding to the draw. You could run this on batteries for a long time lol

 

Thanks, happy weekend to those that are off.

Edited by mikesndbs
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Can we just have a bit of discussion about the top speed of these lovely models please?

 

My ones top scale speed is 55 mph, and the load seems to make little difference which is good.

Mines the same.

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The bonus is the factory will have to take this financial hit, not Dave. It's their quality finish that is the issue, not Dave's product itself.

.

 

I sincerely hope that that is so - but it depends on several things, e.g. ;

 

1:  How much has Dave paid the factory to date.

 

2:  How much work has he got with them now or booked for the future.

 

3:  What does the contract say about the particular issue ?   What are the remedies specified in the contract (e.g. full re-work, new manufacture, replacement parts ????) and is transport both ways included.

 

4:  How easy is it to enforce the contract conditions (such things as performance bonds MIGHT be involved).

 

These sorts of things are NOT simple "letter of the law", they are negotiations where relative positions of power (mainly money) are important.  

 

I can IMAGINE that Dave wants a simple "factory pays ALL COSTS for returning items to China, re-working and transport back to UK", otherwise I will pull your bond and never place any more orders.  p.s. Give me my moulds, paint screens etc. back.

 

Likewise, I can IMAGINE that the factory would like something like "o.k., sorry we messed up, we will send a new set of finished bodies to you in the UK as long as YOU fit them, and you will not pull our bond and will continue to work with us", otherwise we will sell off any models we still have and your moulds, etc...."

 

I SINCERELY hope that Dave has chosen to work with a businesslike and honourable company who will stand by their commitments.

 

(Business negotiations, particularly international ones, are NOT simple matters and I laugh when you see some of the comments/pre-negotiation tactics, that arise out of Brexit  -  amateurs playing to their respective galleries.  I sincerely hope that there are some professionals around behind the scenes.)

 

.

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.

 

I sincerely hope that that is so - but it depends on several things, e.g. ;

 

1:  How much has Dave paid the factory to date.

 

2:  How much work has he got with them now or booked for the future.

 

3:  What does the contract say about the particular issue ?   What are the remedies specified in the contract (e.g. full re-work, new manufacture, replacement parts ????) and is transport both ways included.

 

4:  How easy is it to enforce the contract conditions (such things as performance bonds MIGHT be involved).

 

These sorts of things are NOT simple "letter of the law", they are negotiations where relative positions of power (mainly money) are important.  

 

I can IMAGINE that Dave wants a simple "factory pays ALL COSTS for returning items to China, re-working and transport back to UK", otherwise I will pull your bond and never place any more orders.  p.s. Give me my moulds, paint screens etc. back.

 

Likewise, I can IMAGINE that the factory would like something like "o.k., sorry we messed up, we will send a new set of finished bodies to you in the UK as long as YOU fit them, and you will not pull our bond and will continue to work with us", otherwise we will sell off any models we still have and your moulds, etc...."

 

I SINCERELY hope that Dave has chosen to work with a businesslike and honourable company who will stand by their commitments.

 

(Business negotiations, particularly international ones, are NOT simple matters and I laugh when you see some of the comments/pre-negotiation tactics, that arise out of Brexit  -  amateurs playing to their respective galleries.  I sincerely hope that there are some professionals around behind the scenes.)

 

.

Hi,

 

Rest assured I'm on the case, and there will be a resolution very soon. I have faith in the factories much vaunted ISO9004 to be at the forefront of their minds.

 

Will report when I know something.

Cheers

Dave

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They're both good - it's just a shame H couldn't have used their vast resource to have done something else like a 4-CIG

 

 

Well I stand corrected - the Hornby one is good but the DLM one (Blue 71009) is SUBLIME !!!!!

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Can we just have a bit of discussion about the top speed of these lovely models please?

 

My ones top scale speed is 55 mph, and the load seems to make little difference which is good.

Others have told me they are getting even less.

Like I said about its not a problem for me as i don't run fast but others I know do.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what other owners are getting.

 

Dave, are you able to share any specs about the motor?

 

Just tested the loco for current consumption, at mid speed off load it draws just 80mA which is astounding given there are also LEDs adding to the draw. You could run this on batteries for a long time lol

 

Thanks, happy weekend to those that are off.

 

Mine also has a top speed of 55 mph using a Lenz Silver 21-pin decoder. Track voltage on my Lenz DCC system is 14.5v after allowing for the 1.5v drop caused by using LDT RS8 occupancy detectors. I've tried it with a Zimo MX634D decoder and top speed is much better at 68 mph but the head code blinds do not light up.  These are on function output 3 (AUX3) and work with the Lenz as it's a 5-function decoder.  They should work with the Zimo as it has 6 functions and I'm trying to find out why they don't.  Waiting on a response from Zimo.

 

55 mph is not good enough for me, but 68 mph is fine.

 

Also the loco is still very noisy and I'm hoping that will ease when it's run in more. 

 

One concern I have for other DCC modellers is that I suspect many will install a 4-function 21-pin decoder and wonder why the head code blinds do not illuminate.  Most 21-pin decoders generally available only have 4 functions. With this model the 3rd and 4th functions have been used up by the cab lights which I suspect many people are not really bothered about.

Edited by RFS
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Mine also has a top speed of 55 mph using a Lenz Silver 21-pin decoder. Track voltage on my Lenz DCC system is 14.5v after allowing for the 1.5v drop caused by using LDT RS8 occupancy detectors. I've tried it with a Zimo MX634D decoder and top speed is much better at 68 mph but the head code blinds do not light up. These are on function output 3 (AUX3) and work with the Lenz as it's a 5-function decoder. They should work with the Zimo as it has 6 functions and I'm trying to find out why they don't. Waiting on a response from Zimo.

 

55 mph is not good enough for me, but 68 mph is fine.

 

Also the loco is still very noisy and I'm hoping that will ease when it's run in more.

 

One concern I have for other DCC modellers is that I suspect many will install a 4-function 21-pin decoder and wonder why the head code blinds do not illuminate. Most 21-pin decoders generally available only have 4 functions. With this model the 3rd and 4th functions have been used up by the cab lights which I suspect many people are not really bothered about.

Choice of decoder seems to have a huge impact on top speed for many locos. As for functions, most modern locos now need more than four, and I assume decoder manufacturers will follow what is needed.

 

Roy

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Choice of decoder seems to have a huge impact on top speed for many locos. As for functions, most modern locos now need more than four, and I assume decoder manufacturers will follow what is needed.

 

Roy

Yes, the head code lights don't work using a four function decoder. I have emailed Charlie Petty to ask how the ESU sound decoder can be configured to provide an output on AUX3 so that the head code lights will illuminate. It's a bit of a pity that the head code illumination wasn't wired to AUX1 or AUX2 as most people will be more interested in head code lights than cab lights.

 

Keith

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My 71 is still on its way, so I'd better see about a decoder. Just to be clear: 21pin or Plux?

 

21-pin with at least 5 functions. 

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I am now the proud owner of 71.013 which arrived last evening. I have fitted the extra piece to the front valance and later this afternoon the collector shoes will follow. After running in, I will have one of Charlie's sound chips fitted. The loco was well worth the wait and my thanks go to Dave and the staff at the Kernow Model Rail Centre and anyone else involved in it's production. 

post-276-0-90737400-1495284871.jpg

Roll on the Class 74 now!

 

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I received my blue model today. Many very nice features, however one end has several indentions likely there before painting. I will have to return it.

The doors have sliver print or paint marks, these might be easily removed, but its already going back.

Only feature not impressed with is the handrails, front cab ones have too big holes allowing them to be miss placed (or too thin wire), door ones don't follow the body profile.

Nice model in the main.

Cheers.

What a great pity. I really do dislike moaning about a model from a specialist like Dave but I feel I can't let this go and it's the bloody chineese factory that's to blame.

 

I was well excited to receive mine but I've not even run it. On inspection I found a 'blob' of varnish on the roof and the yellow above one cab had been retouched, leaving a raised additional layer of paint. Sorry but it's on its way back.

 

An email via Kernows contact page went unanswered for 3 days and had to call them. I think I got the guy with no telephone manners.

 

Hope they have a replacement but lord knows what will happen to my original all.

 

Dave.

 

Ps. The silver stuff just rubbed off.

Edited by dasatcopthorne
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Hi

 

Was looking at getting one off hattons when they arrived then when I looked at hattons website they said that they where not happy with the quality of them and have sent them back witch is disappointing and to read the 2 comments above its more disappointing

 

 

Thanks

Alan

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Hi

 

Was looking at getting one off hattons when they arrived then when I looked at hattons website they said that they where not happy with the quality of them and have sent them back witch is disappointing and to read the 2 comments above its more disappointing

 

 

Thanks

Alan

 

Or you could read the comments of many people who are happy? People are always quicker to complain then compliment. Given the balance so far, I think these are very good models and I look forward to mine.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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Hi

 

Was looking at getting one off hattons when they arrived then when I looked at hattons website they said that they where not happy with the quality of them and have sent them back witch is disappointing and to read the 2 comments above its more disappointing

 

 

Thanks

Alan

 

It is only the Hatton's specials that have not been put on sale, because a batch quality issue puts them below the expected standard. Surely this is the mark of a brand and a retailer that will not knowingly sell at less than the intended quality? Plenty of postings on here by happy customers for the batches sold through Kernow so far. The Hatton's exclusives should re-emerge in acceptable form in due course. 

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