OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[Shroomy]

Well received mine today

Loco looks fine running in as we speak no apparent problems

Mine only gripe if you can call it that is body removal felt like it was going to break before it gave way with all the fantastic detail maybe something similar to Dapol four screw fixing system would of been better but happy with mine many thanks DJM

[Gwiwer]

Popped into my "local" shop today and collected my 71 in person. From tissue to track it is magnificently presented and looks a real treat.

 

I've had many items delivered with tissue on the box but none where it was neatly folded, sellotaped and looked to be more than cosmetic. Until now.

 

The loco inside - in my case it's the green fye E5010 - is superb but first one has to read the various insert cards which have already been discussed. I shall add crew and a light weathering in due course. It seems almost offensive to consider dirtying her up but tve bogies, underframes and roof will be improved by it.

 

Not being an expert I cannot pass judgement on the minutiae but it looks like a 71 to me and it looks like a precision model where the opposition looks rather less refined.

 

Well done Dave and his Chinese partners for bringing us these and for using crowdfunding. And to Chris and his hard-working team who have one less to mail out (so yours have all moved a step closer ) and whose shop is filled with cartons of these. I'm sure there was smoke coming from the back room where they were being packed for mailing as fast as possible.

[Roy Langridge]

Well received mine today

Loco looks fine running in as we speak no apparent problems

Mine only gripe if you can call it that is body removal felt like it was going to break before it gave way with all the fantastic detail maybe something similar to Dapol four screw fixing system would of been better but happy with mine many thanks DJM

 

Dapol latest models (Class 68 for example) don't have screws - same approach as the DJ 71.

​Roy

[Shroomy]

Dapol latest models (Class 68 for example) don't have screws - same approach as the DJ 71.

 

​Roy

the 73s I bought did so was basing in on that but hey ho it wasn't really a criticism just a niggle as said

[Roy Langridge]

the 73s I bought did so was basing in on that but hey ho it wasn't really a criticism just a niggle as said

 

Didn't take it that way - just an observation that they all seem to be going down the clip on body shell route. Personally I prefer it as it makes fitting DCC easier.

 

Roy

[dasatcopthorne]

Or you could read the comments of many people who are happy? People are always quicker to complain then compliment. Given the balance so far, I think these are very good models and I look forward to mine.

 

Roy

Although mine may have gone back, something that can happen to any makers' models, I look forward to a replacement without the paint defects. The rest of the model was Brill.

 

Can't wait for my 74.

 

Dave

Edited May 20, 2017 by dasatcopthorne

[PeteB]

Back on the 17th, tetsudofan (Keith) posted:

 

 

Within a few hours Bif had provided me with a list of CVs to change on my decoders and within minutes I had a smooth-running loco.

 

Any chance of posting that list of CVs here?

 

I have my lovely class 71 here, and I robbed an ESU decoder from another loco to get it running, but I am suffering from the jackrabbit at slow speed, and I havn't been able to find the right combination of motor CVs to get it running smoothly. Unusually the automatic motor setup on the ESU decoder didn't work for this one.

 

If the settings could be posted here, that would help anyone struggling to set up an ESU decoder for this loco in the future.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

[YesTor]

Well, my model of E5003 arrived yesterday, beautifully packaged and presented.

 

Firstly, did I need a Class 71?  Answer, no, as it's nowhere even close to the era I model.

Secondly, do I therefore have a use for a Class 71?  Answer, no, for the above reason...

 

BUT... I somehow felt this project would deliver in terms of fidelity and was therefore more than happy to support the project, and ordered pretty much as soon as the model was announced if I recall correctly.

 

Do I feel the model was worth the wait?  Answer, absolutely yes!  First impressions are that this is a model of fine precision.  I'm no expert on the Class 71, but to my eye the general appearance and shape seems to be well-captured.  However, the most notable praise should go to the exceptionally well-detailed bogies and underframe.  The detail in this area in particular is very sharp, with very convincing representation of the coil springs, and the separately added cables and cable clips are an absolute delight to behold.  All too often the bogies are an area of many models that seem to take second consideration and can, in my opinion, easily let down an otherwise great model, but not so in this instance.  The material used is also more of a dull matt finish as opposed to the often shiny and plastic-looking material used by many other manufacturers, and to my eye the matt finish here results in the detail looking impeccable without necessarily requiring weathering to remove that plastic look.  Very nice too are the chequered plates above the buffers, all very neatly produced and fitted, and so too the bufferbeam detail.  Overall I think it's these small touches that really push the model in terms of detail/finesse.

 

Another notable plus is that the model not only feels, but also looks very solid - the body sits very well on its bogies and everything appears as one solid unit, again as opposed to bogies sometimes looking like a bit of an 'add on' that kind of float around underneath.  Features such as bogie steps and all cables etc are all affixed correctly, with no signs of excess glue or steps not being glued in straight (Bachmann, please kindly take note!)

 

I admit that I had doubts about the pantograph being manufactured in plastic, however it does, in the flesh, appear to be very finely produced, and looking at the photos on the DJ Models website of the assembly of this item alone, I can only imagine that this was quite a fete in itself.  The finished pantograph certainly doesn't feel to be the most robust of structures (but then do they ever?), but I think the compromise in strength is perhaps a worthwhile one for the added finesse.

 

If I can find one gripe, and it really is a very minor one, then it would be with the pre-attached etched works plates.  A nice addition for sure, however one is very, very slightly not straight on my example, and also I notice, as I have indeed noticed with other models with pre-attached plates, that the small tabs that attach the plate to the etch frame are rarely removed fully, and although this really is minimal on my example, it is quite annoying as I just know that if fitting these myself I would have taken the time to rub the edges with a piece of wet 'n' dry before attaching to remove all trace of said tab.  Anyway, whilst I'm not advocating that production line staff should be expected to individually sand etched plates, my thoughts are that I do not think it is perhaps realistic to expect any member of production line staff to manage to attach all plates to all models absolutely perfectly every time, which leads me to suggest (especially in the light of the plight of other manufacturers recently (Dapol 68 anyone?)), that etched plates in a bag really is the best method.

 

So, overall am I happy?  Yes, absolutely!  This is one mighty-fine looking and smooth-running model.  If nothing else, it's worth buying if only to stare at the bogies alone!

 

As said before it doesn't fit into my modelling era whatsoever - it looks mighty odd amongst my GBRf 66's and Freightliner wagons - but even so I'm trying to resist picking up a second model, as I'm sure they would look great running as a pair.  Did Class 71s ever run as pairs incidentally?  Maybe I can find an excuse for a double-header preserved special...  Hmmm, now there's a thought... 

Edited May 20, 2017 by YesTor

[amwells]

Dave, you mentioned previously that the numbers for some of the locos were pretty low. From memory (which is no reliable source!), I thought that you had said c120 of each were being produced, with any excess being sold at the higher price than those of us crowdfunders. Will you be revealing how many of each have been produced?

 

I ask on the presumption that this is not commercially sensitive given that these number / livery combinations won't be repeated anyway.

 

Kind regards,

Andrew

[RFS]

Dave, you mentioned previously that the numbers for some of the locos were pretty low. From memory (which is no reliable source!), I thought that you had said c120 of each were being produced, with any excess being sold at the higher price than those of us crowdfunders. Will you be revealing how many of each have been produced?

 

I ask on the presumption that this is not commercially sensitive given that these number / livery combinations won't be repeated anyway.

 

Kind regards,

Andrew

 

My E5004 came with a certificate saying it was a limited edition of 200. 

[JSpencer]

Well received mine today

Loco looks fine running in as we speak no apparent problems

Mine only gripe if you can call it that is body removal felt like it was going to break before it gave way with all the fantastic detail maybe something similar to Dapol four screw fixing system would of been better but happy with mine many thanks DJM

 

Body removal on mine was dead easy, the chassis fell out as soon as I picked it up. Between this and the stiff bogies (won't easily follow curves), I am starting to think I got a duff.

[tetsudofan]

Back on the 17th, tetsudofan (Keith) posted:

 

 

Any chance of posting that list of CVs here?

 

I have my lovely class 71 here, and I robbed an ESU decoder from another loco to get it running, but I am suffering from the jackrabbit at slow speed, and I havn't been able to find the right combination of motor CVs to get it running smoothly. Unusually the automatic motor setup on the ESU decoder didn't work for this one.

 

If the settings could be posted here, that would help anyone struggling to set up an ESU decoder for this loco in the future.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

 

Hi there,

 

As the CV changes referred to relate to the programming done by legomanbiffo specifically for the sound decoders sold by DCKits I'm not sure that I should post the details here without asking prior permission from legomanbiffo/Charlie Petty.

 

Keith

[mikesndbs]

Body removal on mine was dead easy, the chassis fell out as soon as I picked it up. Between this and the stiff bogies (won't easily follow curves), I am starting to think I got a duff.

 

Body should be tight and require inserts to disengage the clips, I think my video featured this bit?

 

4:10 in 

Edited May 21, 2017 by mikesndbs

[DoverPriory]

Body removal on mine was dead easy, the chassis fell out as soon as I picked it up. Between this and the stiff bogies (won't easily follow curves), I am starting to think I got a duff.

I have only got one of my 4 running so far. Body clips were fine. But there doesn't seem to be as much vertical/ side to side movement of bogie units as you get with for example with Bachmann Bo Bo locos and I dont wonder if this isn't behind the rather demanding nature of my current running 71? I have had to sort out track around some points (on a small but complex layout) so that it is perfectly level. Additionally I have had to impose speed restrictions of not> 6/28 on ordinary Peco Setrack points (no problem with the 4 sets of express points tho). Some of the more knowledgeable  on here will probably say this is what happens for real anyway. Did try adjusting b2bs  but they just spring back to their factory position. 

 But I continue to be pleased with my 71's. And look forward to getting the rest of the fleet running later in the week.

If the gent with the information on how to smooth out the running of locos with the early version of DC KITS sound chip could post on here that would be good. Charlie isn't an easy person to get hold of.

Once the initial little niggles with loco and sound chip are sorted these locos are going to be right at the top of the quality league........not bad for just under £250 (loco + chip). 

[davesol]

Well, my model of E5003 arrived yesterday, beautifully packaged and presented.

 

Firstly, did I need a Class 71?  Answer, no, as it's nowhere even close to the era I model.

Secondly, do I therefore have a use for a Class 71?  Answer, no, for the above reason...

 

BUT... I somehow felt this project would deliver in terms of fidelity and was therefore more than happy to support the project, and ordered pretty much as soon as the model was announced if I recall correctly.

 

Do I feel the model was worth the wait?  Answer, absolutely yes!  First impressions are that this is a model of fine precision.  I'm no expert on the Class 71, but to my eye the general appearance and shape seems to be well-captured.  However, the most notable praise should go to the exceptionally well-detailed bogies and underframe.  The detail in this area in particular is very sharp, with very convincing representation of the coil springs, and the separately added cables and cable clips are an absolute delight to behold.  All too often the bogies are an area of many models that seem to take second consideration and can, in my opinion, easily let down an otherwise great model, but not so in this instance.  The material used is also more of a dull matt finish as opposed to the often shiny and plastic-looking material used by many other manufacturers, and to my eye the matt finish here results in the detail looking impeccable without necessarily requiring weathering to remove that plastic look.  Very nice too are the chequered plates above the buffers, all very neatly produced and fitted, and so too the bufferbeam detail.  Overall I think it's these small touches that really push the model in terms of detail/finesse.

 

Another notable plus is that the model not only feels, but also looks very solid - the body sits very well on its bogies and everything appears as one solid unit, again as opposed to bogies sometimes looking like a bit of an 'add on' that kind of float around underneath.  Features such as bogie steps and all cables etc are all affixed correctly, with no signs of excess glue or steps not being glued in straight (Bachmann, please kindly take note!)

 

I admit that I had doubts about the pantograph being manufactured in plastic, however it does, in the flesh, appear to be very finely produced, and looking at the photos on the DJ Models website of the assembly of this item alone, I can only imagine that this was quite a fete in itself.  The finished pantograph certainly doesn't feel to be the most robust of structures (but then do they ever?), but I think the compromise in strength is perhaps a worthwhile one for the added finesse.

 

If I can find one gripe, and it really is a very minor one, then it would be with the pre-attached etched works plates.  A nice addition for sure, however one is very, very slightly not straight on my example, and also I notice, as I have indeed noticed with other models with pre-attached plates, that the small tabs that attach the plate to the etch frame are rarely removed fully, and although this really is minimal on my example, it is quite annoying as I just know that if fitting these myself I would have taken the time to rub the edges with a piece of wet 'n' dry before attaching to remove all trace of said tab.  Anyway, whilst I'm not advocating that production line staff should be expected to individually sand etched plates, my thoughts are that I do not think it is perhaps realistic to expect any member of production line staff to manage to attach all plates to all models absolutely perfectly every time, which leads me to suggest (especially in the light of the plight of other manufacturers recently (Dapol 68 anyone?)), that etched plates in a bag really is the best method.

 

So, overall am I happy?  Yes, absolutely!  This is one mighty-fine looking and smooth-running model.  If nothing else, it's worth buying if only to stare at the bogies alone!

 

As said before it doesn't fit into my modelling era whatsoever - it looks mighty odd amongst my GBRf 66's and Freightliner wagons - but even so I'm trying to resist picking up a second model, as I'm sure they would look great running as a pair.  Did Class 71s ever run as pairs incidentally?  Maybe I can find an excuse for a double-header preserved special...  Hmmm, now there's a thought... 

For information, there is insufficient power available from the third rail, and the electric sub station to enable two locomotives to run together. I believe the only electric units the type HA (and the HB) could run with were a single 2-EPB or a MLV.

 

As it was the HA was the most powerful loco of its type at the time.

 

Any help?

 

Dave Solley

[RFS]

I have done some more investigation on the top speed of my loco.  As I reported earlier, I was getting 55mph with the Lenz Silver and approximately 60mph with a Zimo MX600R (on an 8/21 converter).  The Zimo has much better slow control so I'm sticking with that for the time being. These speeds were recorded using RR&Co Traincontroller's profiling whereby it uses three track sections with occupancy detectors to determine exactly what speed the loco travels on a given speed step. However these speeds were recorded light engine and TC assumes Back EMF will take care of loads but it seems it doesn't: add load to the loco and it slows down. With 9 coaches (7 Hornby Maunsells and 2 Pullmans - a typical "boat train") recorded speed drops to 49mph - it really is noticeably slower.

 

The issue here is that the motor is a coreless one, and therefore Back EMF needs to process accordingly.  The default Zimo parameters do not work here. However the decoder does have support for coreless motors, and using their recommended defaults the problem is solved for me: the loco runs much better, and at a consistent speed with its load.  For the record I've set CV9=51 and CV56=133.

 

So to get the full benefit of this loco you need a decoder with 5 functions to work all the lights, plus one that has Back EMF support for coreless motors. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by RFS

[mikesndbs]

Think I am going to add a couple of small diodes to the headcode feeds on mine so it only lights in direction of travel (that's the plan) would anyone else be interested in this project? 

[roundhouse]

Just fitted number 20 Kadees to mine. Now to find a spare decoder.

[RFS]

Think I am going to add a couple of small diodes to the headcode feeds on mine so it only lights in direction of travel (that's the plan) would anyone else be interested in this project? 

 

How would this work as the head code lights are not directional? One possible option might be to swap over the wires between the head code and the cab lights.  That would make the head code lights operate independently on F1 and F2, and the cab lights (both) on F3.  No doubt you'd be invalidating the warranty though ....

[Roy Langridge]

How would this work as the head code lights are not directional? One possible option might be to swap over the wires between the head code and the cab lights.  That would make the head code lights operate independently on F1 and F2, and the cab lights (both) on F3.  No doubt you'd be invalidating the warranty though ....

 

If somebody is going that far, is it not worth rewiring them to have separate feeds and use a six function decoder?

 

Roy

[mikesndbs]

How would this work as the head code lights are not directional? One possible option might be to swap over the wires between the head code and the cab lights.  That would make the head code lights operate independently on F1 and F2, and the cab lights (both) on F3.  No doubt you'd be invalidating the warranty though ....

 

Hi, just to clarify I am DC only, the headcode lights must be an LED, I plan to just add a diode into the circuit of the feed to them, either from the PCB or direct within the cable. 

[RFS]

If somebody is going that far, is it not worth rewiring them to have separate feeds and use a six function decoder?

 

Roy

 

That would require a major rewire compared to reversing the head code/cab lights, and only necessary if you wanted to retain the cab lights on separate functions.  Personally I'm not bothered with the cab lights, but I'd like to be able to switch out the rear head code lights. 

[No Decorum]

The headcode inserts seem to be quite light proof. Perhaps if Dave had provided an all-black one, it would have shut off the tail light. Perhaps a bit of black tape on a spare headcode insert might do the job without invalidating the warranty.

[skin_2]

 But I continue to be pleased with my 71's. And look forward to getting the rest of the fleet running later in the week.

If the gent with the information on how to smooth out the running of locos with the early version of DC KITS sound chip could post on here that would be good. Charlie isn't an easy person to get hold of.

Once the initial little niggles with loco and sound chip are sorted these locos are going to be right at the top of the quality league........not bad for just under £250 (loco + chip). 

I have the' later' version of the sound decoder and it's fine out of the box as far as the running is concerned. I'm also waiting to hear back from Charlie about how to get the headcode lights to work with it as that's a serious issue for me. I have a feeling the situation is that although the Loksound decoders have 6 function outputs in total, only 4 of these outputs are amplified (able to drive loads directly) with the remaining 2 being logical (only supplying a control signal). This is due to the fact the the ESU decoders conform to the NEM (MOROP) Standards with Aux 3 & Aux4 specified as logical outputs. I think that you just need a suitable NPN transistor and a bias resistor to make a 'physical' output that will control a device - in this case the head code LEDs.

[PeteB]

As the CV changes referred to relate to the programming done by legomanbiffo specifically for the sound decoders sold by DCKits I'm not sure that I should post the details here without asking prior permission from legomanbiffo/Charlie Petty.

 

 

Fair enough, I've no doubt bif will be happy to advise in due course.

 

However, I have made progress.  I took the Zimo MX634D out of my Dapol Class 68 and put it into the Class 71, and much better running immediately just on the default settings - so Zimo 1 ESU nil for the class 71at that point. However as a bonus, putting the ESU decoder in the Class 68 has enabled me to map all the class 68 functions so they work sensibly (the Dapol wiring is strange!) - so ESU 1 Zimo nil in the class 68 for the clever ESU function mapping capabilities.

 

I then refined the Zimo decoder settings in the class 71 using the CV values that RFS kindly posted and the slow running is now even better.

 

Top speed would definitely be an issue for a main line layout where you want to run expresses - but I like to trundle my trains so not really an issue for me.  When I get into implementing automation it might be a problem, speed step 55 is still crawling, so I might need to set a speed table that ramps the speed up initially at a rate similar to most other locos and then max's out when it hits the fastest the class 71 can do.

 

I will try tweaking the track voltage up a bit (within NMRA DCC limits) to see if that makes a difference - I'll report back if it helps.

 

Pete

Edited May 21, 2017 by PeteB