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OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive


DJM Dave
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  • RMweb Gold

I'm not installing any wires. Mine was broken fresh out of the box and, examining it, I do not think it fit for purpose. Two light shunts and it would break ... or perhaps reaching across and catching your sleeve on it .... that's a Sod's Law easily done. Anyway,  I've sent mine back and will be getting the Hornby version

 

And don't think the Hornby panto...delicate as it is....is anything but fragile too.,,as I discovered when a slight knock caused it to self-dismantle.Re assembly is a nightmare.Hope you find it,as you say "fit for purpose"

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And don't think the Hornby panto...delicate as it is....is anything but fragile too.,,as I discovered when a slight knock caused it to self-dismantle.Re assembly is a nightmare.Hope you find it,as you say "fit for purpose"

Yes I know but at least there is a fighting chance to repair it. Once the DJM pan is broke ... it's broke. 

Good points and bad points with both. If the Hornby pan is available as a spare, fitting that to the DJM might be a good idea.

Edited by SGP
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  • RMweb Gold

And don't think the Hornby panto...delicate as it is....is anything but fragile too.,,as I discovered when a slight knock caused it to self-dismantle.Re assembly is a nightmare.Hope you find it,as you say "fit for purpose"

 

I am sure either would have been fine in a show case: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88264-oo-gauge-class-71-electric-locomotive/page-70&do=findComment&comment=2726450

 

As an aside, can you just return a crowdfunded model for a refund? I would have thought not but that is what SGP seems to intimate.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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Nor should they have at the prices they charge.

Roco prices are variable. Some of the newer tooling is expensive but some of the older tooling is no more expensive than OO these days and is still competitive on looks and detail.

LE models and Lima Expert (part of Hornby) use beautifully modelled pantographs on their E636 & E646 models which I'm finding to be both robust and very accurate. The models cost me less than £150 from a shop in the Uk and are wonderfully detailed and finished. Maybe Italian HO is cheap but I've found that the old assumption that HO was much more expensive stopped being true a while ago.

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Yes I know but at least there is a fighting chance to repair it. Once the DJM pan is broke ... it's broke. 

Good points and bad points with both. If the Hornby pan is available as a spare, fitting that to the DJM might be a good idea.

 

Indeed, but overall, having read your many posts here, I am reminded of Hamlet, Act III, scene II line 222 (for 'lady', read 'gentleman') !

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All of which means that to use function outputs 5 and 6 (aux3/aux4 or FO3/FO4) from the Zimo on the DJM Class 71, some wiring changes will be needed.

 

Well, I took the plunge and got it sorted.

 

A few minutes with the meter sussed out what was occurring with the headcode lights on the DJM circuit board - it is indeed wired for logic level output on this one.

 

This pic shows the transistor that is used to covert the logic level output from aux 3 (or FO3 in Zimo terminology) to drive the LED.  As the Zimo FO3 output is a standard function output, we don't want it going through the transistor.

 

 

Fortunately, the FO3 output on the decoder socket is connected to the transistor by a resistor and the transistor is connected to the LED and its series resistor by a zero ohm link, so by removing these the function output and LED connection are now isolated.  This can be done without any scalpel surgery to the PCB, so they could always be refitted later if required:

 

gallery_12961_4249_959633.png

 

 

And here it is with the two components removed.

 

 

Interestingly, the zero ohm link is identified as D1, indicating a diode, and underneath there is diode symbol, but it is definitely a zero ohm link.

 

 

 

gallery_12961_4249_1138483.png.

 

 

Now the FO3 output and the LED (with its series resistor) are isolated from everything else, all I had to do was join them together with a wire link:

 

gallery_12961_4249_29911.png

 

And hey presto - we now have working headcodes:

 

gallery_12961_4249_559533.png

 

The headcode was over-bright to start with, but I have dimmed it, and the cab lights, using the decoder settings so now it looks much better.

 

I also set the cab lights so, if you have them turned on, they go off automatically when the loco starts moving.

 

I can post Decoder Pro screenshots if anyone wants to know how to do those settings in a Zimo decoder.

 

Since I also have AUX4/FO4 available on this decoder, the next step will be to separate one end from FO3 and connect it to FO4 instead, so each end can operate independently, and then make them operate directionally. I think I will have to lift up the DJM decoder and cut a track to achieve this, because I think the track linking the headcodes at both ends is under the PCB. I will also have to add a resistor for the other end, and probably change the value of the resistor which will now only feed one LED. I can post details of those changes if/when I get around to it, if anyone is interested.

 

Pete

Edited by PeteB
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Lol - but its line 230 in my version.

 

Roy

 

It's actually line 225

We obviously have different versions, but you got my meaning, anyway !

Mike

Edited by olivegreen
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I am reminded of Hamlet, Act III, scene II line 222 (for 'lady', read 'gentleman') !

Some sort of abuse no doubt but not the courage to say outright. 

I've put my findings on here and just because it goes against what you want to read you become two of the three wise monkeys. 

Fact is ... a flimsy plastic pantograph that once broken cannot be fixed IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE even for us who don't play trains.

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A question for Dave, regarding the lighting: 

the lighting connections appear to be connected to the PCB through three plugs at each end. Would it be possible to swap the connections by simply swapping plugs for the headcodes and the marker lights, so the headcodes illuminate directionally and the marker lights remain on (if selected) on DCC? If it is possible, can you tell us which plugs feed what lighting units, please?

I am using a LokSound v4 on E5003, and personally would rather have the headcodes than the marker lights, which were rarely used in any case.

Edit: I have now realised the plugs have different numbers of pins. Even so, if the wires to the relevant pins on the plugs were swapped, is my idea feasible/achievable?

 

Thanks. :)

Edited by SRman
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If anyone has a older ESU V4 Legomanbiffo Class 71  Sound Decoder which when fitted causes you loco to judder slightly, please see the Fix below:

 

These CV changes should make your DJ 71 run more smoothly;

CV5 to 255
CV6 to128
CV49 to17
CV51 to 0
CV52 to 0
CV53 to 140
CV54 to 40
CV55 to 28
CV56 to 255
CV124 to 4

All Current decoders have been tuned to suit the current production model, so non of the above issues should arise.
 
ANY issues please let us know directly @ [email protected], and not contact Dave at DJM directly.  All are available to order on our website, not from DJ Models.
 
Charlie & Ian 
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  • RMweb Gold

Well, I took the plunge and got it sorted.

 

A few minutes with the meter sussed out what was occurring with the headcode lights on the DJM circuit board - it is indeed wired for logic level output on this one.

 

This pic shows the transistor that is used to covert the logic level output from aux 3 (or FO3 in Zimo terminology) to drive the LED.  As the Zimo FO3 output is a standard function output, we don't want it going through the transistor.

 

 

Fortunately, the FO3 output on the decoder socket is connected to the transistor by a resistor and the transistor is connected to the LED and its series resistor by a zero ohm link, so by removing these the function output and LED connection are now isolated.  This can be done without any scalpel surgery to the PCB, so they could always be refitted later if required:

 

gallery_12961_4249_959633.png

 

 

And here it is with the two components removed.

 

 

Interestingly, the zero ohm link is identified as D1, indicating a diode, and underneath there is diode symbol, but it is definitely a zero ohm link.

 

 

 

gallery_12961_4249_1138483.png.

 

 

Now the FO3 output and the LED (with its series resistor) are isolated from everything else, all I had to do was join them together with a wire link:

 

gallery_12961_4249_29911.png

 

And hey presto - we now have working headcodes:

 

gallery_12961_4249_559533.png

 

The headcode was over-bright to start with, but I have dimmed it, and the cab lights, using the decoder settings so now it looks much better.

 

I also set the cab lights so, if you have them turned on, they go off automatically when the loco starts moving.

 

I can post Decoder Pro screenshots if anyone wants to know how to do those settings in a Zimo decoder.

 

Since I also have AUX4/FO4 available on this decoder, the next step will be to separate one end from FO3 and connect it to FO4 instead, so each end can operate independently, and then make them operate directionally. I think I will have to lift up the DJM decoder and cut a track to achieve this, because I think the track linking the headcodes at both ends is under the PCB. I will also have to add a resistor for the other end, and probably change the value of the resistor which will now only feed one LED. I can post details of those changes if/when I get around to it, if anyone is interested.

 

Pete

 

Glad you got it sorted, even though you had to get out the soldering iron! I have been trying to sort this out with the Zimo MX634D decoder on the assumption that AUX3/FO3 required to be normal output, not logic output.  The MX634D has this as a normal output so I didn't understand why the lights didn't work.

 

But the loco's PCB expects a logic output and the Lenz Silver has AUX3 as logic level which is why the lights work. But the FO3/FO4 output of the MX634D are supposed to be switchable between the two states, with CV8=3 making them logic level.  However I've tried that and the lights still do not work. I can only assume the logic outputs on the decoder are somehow incompatible with the loco's PCB. Zimo have confirmed that CV8=3 should convert the outputs to logic so I've asked them why it still does not work. 

 

So I've reverted to the Lenz Silver decoder. There are a couple of parameters with the Lenz for coreless motors but they're not well documented. Setting bit 6 in CV50 increases the maximum speed, and increasing the BEMF sampling in CV9 improves the BEMF accuracy too. CV9 has a range of 0-63 with a default of 15.  So I've tried the loco with CV9=63 and CV50=32 and performance is much better.  It reaches 62mph but on speed step 110 after which it will not go any faster.  Here's the output from Traincontroller's profiling (vertical axis is speed, horizontal is speed step, left is backward, right is forward):

 

E5004L_zpsrsvkvm4w.jpg

 

With an 8-coach load it barely drops speed and I'm happy with that. 

 

As far as the head code lights are concerned they're far too bright.  CV 118 on the Lenz reduces the brightness: its default is 255 but I've reduced to only 25 to get it to look realistic. As I intend to run the loco only in one direction (so that all the extras can be plumbed into the front) I've put an insert into the rear blind with a piece of black masking tape over it.  There's now hardly any light showing.

 

So now I'm at last happy with the loco!

Edited by RFS
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  • RMweb Gold

Thank you RFS very helpful

If using the lenz on here which cv's do we change for the cab lighting please

 

Do mean to reduce the brightness levels? In which case it's CVs 116 and 117. 

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So now I'm at last happy with the loco!

I'm glad that I didn't say that. Someone would've been on my case. I'm not allowed to pick fault with the 71 even when I have a valid point.

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  • RMweb Gold

I'm glad that I didn't say that. Someone would've been on my case. I'm not allowed to pick fault with the 71 even when I have a valid point.

 

You are allowed a view, no problem. What got my back up and no doubt others was your evolving story. For example, you claimed that you only got the DJ 71 because of you wanted it to match the DJ 74, this despite you having ordered the 71 long before the 74 was announced, you state it for a showcase and then say the pantograph is not rugged enough for use. Perhaps let those who want to use the loco determine whether it works or not?

 

To many, me included, you had a downer on this model before you even got sight of it and seem hell bent on picking faults.

 

That is my opinion anyway.

 

​Roy

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You are allowed a view, no problem. What got my back up and no doubt others was your evolving story. For example, you claimed that you only got the DJ 71 because of you wanted it to match the DJ 74, this despite you having ordered the 71 long before the 74 was announced, you state it for a showcase and then say the pantograph is not rugged enough for use. Perhaps let those who want to use the loco determine whether it works or not?

 

To many, me included, you had a downer on this model before you even got sight of it and seem hell bent on picking faults.

 

That is my opinion anyway.

 

​Roy

 

 

OK seriously guys, let this rest now, far more important things to be upset about out there.

No blame to anyone but please, let it rest now.

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I'm not installing any wires. Mine was broken fresh out of the box and, examining it, I do not think it fit for purpose. Two light shunts and it would break ... or perhaps reaching across and catching your sleeve on it .... that's a Sod's Law easily done. Anyway,  I've sent mine back and will be getting the Hornby version instead.

 

The Hornby Version I agree has a better pantograph, BUT it to falls apart quite easy, as for DCC its a Crap model, as for DCC Sound its a disaster, I know because I have fitted some, the dcc bit I think was designed by 'Mr Bean'   Honestly in the 21st Century its pathetic.   Charlie

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  • RMweb Gold

The Hornby Version I agree has a better pantograph, BUT it to falls apart quite easy, as for DCC its a Crap model, as for DCC Sound its a disaster, I know because I have fitted some, the dcc bit I think was designed by 'Mr Bean'   Honestly in the 21st Century its pathetic.   Charlie

 

Charlie, I may be dreaming but here goes...

​Did you post with an special offer on sound decoders for the DJ 71? Mine are arriving tomorrow and I was going to order sound for at least one of them. I have gone back through this thread and tried using the search (which I never seem to win with) and no joy.

 

I may be going mad, if so please excuse me.

 

Cheers,

​Roy

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