SimonF Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Placed my order at lunch for the LNER green version - that's me almost spent for the year! Don't tell the wife! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 ...how much of the Brighton Atlantic tooling is applicable here?... The major shared element is surely the design of a good mechanism and weight distribution to deliver the perfomance required of the model if it is to replicate the prototype's capability. Which leads to... I personally found it quite expensive for a small express loco ... ... but not if you think of it as the first UK big engine, which is what it was. The 30 square feet of grate, and a boiler with enough volume to allow development to an 18:1 superheater to grate area ratio enabled power delivery quite beyond what its size might lead you to expect. Only the largest of UK 4-6-0 types could match it for power output at express speed. The pointer to the right way to build a high output express loco for UK service. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Saw this in MR last week, but pleased to see it officially launched all the same. I've just ordered the GNR version, but the LNER version is seriously tempting as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 £179?! I hope this model is a proper exclusive for that money. I am still struggling to placate my wife over the £140 she paid for my Christmas present for the 'exclusive' MR 1000 that is now to be available in a general release set complete with coaches for £120 . I'm not sure why price and exclusivity are linked. Either you want one or you don't. The price is what you have to pay if so. Surely it doesn't matter whether there are 1000 made or 100,000? If you want the model that's the deal. If you see "exclusive" as a designer label guaranteed to retain higher value, then I'm not sure our hobby will often bear that out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ah, well. The moths in my wallet can sleep on undisturbed for a while longer......... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 ... but not if you think of it as the first UK big engine, which is what it was. The 30 square feet of grate, and a boiler with enough volume to allow development to an 18:1 superheater to grate area ratio enabled power delivery quite beyond what its size might lead you to expect. Only the largest of UK 4-6-0 types could match it for power output at express speed. The pointer to the right way to build a high output express loco for UK service. They were seen on such a variety of traffic, and were more than capable of filling in for the larger Pacifics on the heaviest of duties too. Seeing photographs of those running the Pullman trains to Leeds makes one realise what little pocket rockets they were. It is a shame in some respects that they did not survive to the end of steam as the Marsh versions almost did, but 62822's final runs did prove what brilliant workhorses they had been for the LNER and GNR before that. One of Britain's greatest locomotive classes in my honest opinion, and one which to this day still doesn't quite get the recognition it deserves. It has now in the model railway world. (Now can we talk about potentially steaming the surviving one in ten years time please?) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 It would be interesting to know if the model is exclusive for a limited time (like the midland compound) or totally exclusive (like the prototype Deltic appears to be)? The details on the website are sparse. Andy did a brilliant review of the compound which mentioned a time limit for it, the only mention I have ever seen regarding this info. R-O-T I'm purely speculating here, but I think Locomotion Models will keep that info close to their chest. If it became known that an LNER C1 would be in Bachmann's catalogue next year, who would buy the exclusive LNER Apple Green version being sold by Locomotion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 Gawd that's tempting, shouldn't have spent so much time watching Gresley Beat! The LNER version would make sense to go with the teaks I have but GNR too . . . Good job I resisted the APT now. If they do bring out Hardwicke eventually I might actually get somewhere near Froth level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarttrains Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Preproduction model Edited July 29, 2014 by stuarttrains 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) If Bachmann have tooled up to cope with the necessary differences between 251 as preserved and the various Atlantics as in service after 1927, then unless Locomotion Models have paid out quite a sum for exclusive rights on the tooling I feel sure that Bachmann will have to put versions of the models in their main range in due course. Big-retailer discounts will then apply, so I'm unlikely to sign up without further thought for one of the NRM items. After all, as far as GNR Atlantics are concerned I can paraphrase the French guard on the castle battlements in Monty Python's Holy Grail: "I've already got one, it's very nice" - well two actually, one not yet being painted and de-snagged. And now I've just seen the above picture pop-up before my own post appeared, that looks very nice too! Edited July 29, 2014 by gr.king Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thank you Stuart! Looks fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarttrains Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) version Edited July 30, 2014 by stuarttrains 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Bit confused about tender types. Locomotion release anouncement says "Two tender versions are being produced in the form of an original Great Northern Railway and later LNER types". From what I'm reading up, large Atlantic tenders up to 1907 were class B 3670 gallon types, equally spaced wheels. (So presumably the first of class no. 251 would have had that from new). From 1908 3500 gall tenders were introduced with unequal wheel spacing (6' and 7') which in time were attached to all large Atlantics. My reference says "all....by the early 1920s". So my question is, what tender type should the model of 251 have, and what I can't find a pic of at the moment, what tender type does the full sized one have now?, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarttrains Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) version Edited July 30, 2014 by stuarttrains 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 When will people just realise: 1). Size of the loco bears little relation to r&d, tooling, and manufacturing costs. Only difference with size is that a small extra amount of plastic is used in the bigger model. It is the amount of extra detailing parts (ie labour) that increases costs. 2). A manufacturer bases (trade) price on his forecast sales over a given period, with an expected time for payback of design costs (and hence cheaper costs beyond that giving more profit). 3). rrp is a retail price estimate from the manufacturer; very often not paid by the consumer anyway due to discount selling by the retailer. 4). Commisions (and especially exclusive editions) have limited production runs, so (2) doesn't apply. Development costs must be paid back - along with profit of course - in 1 batch. 5). Commision have no competition from other sellers so no discounting (except for the likes of Model Rail subscriber discounts). Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Not what I hoped it would be but my wallet is safe this time... Entirely what I'd hoped for and my wallet has just taken a severe pounding! With the APT and now the C1 triumvirate, it looks like this year will eclipse last year which, with the L+Y Tank, 47 798 and ER-flavour DP1 issues was a pretty bl**dy good one for Locomotion/NRM. I just wish they'd give in to the inevitable and get Bachamnn to tool up a Stirling single.... Cheers Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Have just seen the EP photos - very tasty. Interesting to note that the LBSCR H2 is not at this advanced level of pre-production. Does this imply that the C1 was started first and that Bachmann decided to release the H2 once they'd done a lot of the leg-work? CheersAdrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 When (if) Bachmann produce there own nonexclusive non NRM version of the C1 I'm going to turn it into 4419 with the pacific cab and booster. Rhys 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi Stuarttrains. Has there been a mix up in the photos you posted ? BR version you show, looking at the tender has no handhole in it where as looking at the prototype photo on the website...the BR version should have the hole in the tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) When (if) Bachmann produce there own nonexclusive non NRM version of the C1 I'm going to turn it into 4419 with the pacific cab and booster. Rhys Hear hear, best looking one of the lot. How about a compound C1? Edited July 29, 2014 by railroadbill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm not sure why price and exclusivity are linked. Either you want one or you don't. The price is what you have to pay if so. Surely it doesn't matter whether there are 1000 made or 100,000? If you want the model that's the deal. If you see "exclusive" as a designer label guaranteed to retain higher value, then I'm not sure our hobby will often bear that out. The point is that I (well more accurately my wife!) paid £140 because I wanted MR 1000 and at the time of that models release the implication was that paying £140 to the NRM was the only way of getting one. I had no problem with that and rationalised that with the contribution to the NRM and the implication that the model wouldn't be a general release in that livery and condition, £140 was a reasonable price to pay. We are now being asked to pay £179 for 251 with scant detail of future production plans for the model. I am not a collector (and rather resent the suggestion that I am buying models for their possible future value) but I want to be clear what I am buying into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 My understanding is that the Ivatt C1 is exclusive to Locomotion/NRM in all variations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ok, been and gorn and done it. Order placed. Oddly enough, didn't think I'd be buying anything today, but they've really hit the spot with this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hard to see on the prototype models if they have depicted the saddle which I think the two later ones should have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Bit confused about tender types. Locomotion release anouncement says "Two tender versions are being produced in the form of an original Great Northern Railway and later LNER types". From what I'm reading up, large Atlantic tenders up to 1907 were class B 3670 gallon types, equally spaced wheels. (So presumably the first of class no. 251 would have had that from new). From 1908 3500 gall tenders were introduced with unequal wheel spacing (6' and 7') which in time were attached to all large Atlantics. My reference says "all....by the early 1920s". So my question is, what tender type should the model of 251 have, and what I can't find a pic of at the moment, what tender type does the full sized one have now?, Now answered my own query by finding 1) a pic of 251 with original tender in 1903 2) a pic of 251 numbered 2800 in wartime (ww2) black with later tender. But still can't find a side on pic of 251 as of now with it's tender. This model is going to look sooooo good gliding into the platform......... Edited July 29, 2014 by railroadbill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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