Experience with Peco Smartswitch

[Mike Storey]

MP1 - many thanks for posting this link and they certainly look the business at that price.

 

I have downloaded the instructions, and I am no electrician, but I do not quite understand the wiring diagram. I am much more used to the step by step instructions from the likes of DCC or Circuitron!

 

That said, DCC are about to release a surface mounted point (stepped-)motor  (as far as I can work out, it is not a solenoid) for not much more than this price.

[Bo P]

MP1 - many thanks for posting this link and they certainly look the business at that price.

 

I have downloaded the instructions, and I am no electrician, but I do not quite understand the wiring diagram. I am much more used to the step by step instructions from the likes of DCC or Circuitron!

 

That said, DCC are about to release a surface mounted point (stepped-)motor  (as far as I can work out, it is not a solenoid) for not much more than this price.

 

Well, Mike - I am not a whiz at the elecronics bit either, but it actually is very simple. One set of 3 connections (poz1, poz2 & COM) for the switch action (I used a DPDT toggle switch for this). The other 3 connections are for routing the frog power. I got it right the first time, so I guess pretty much anybody can also.

[Mike Storey]

Well, Mike - I am not a whiz at the elecronics bit either, but it actually is very simple. One set of 3 connections (poz1, poz2 & COM) for the switch action (I used a DPDT toggle switch for this). The other 3 connections are for routing the frog power. I got it right the first time, so I guess pretty much anybody can also.

 

Thanks - I think I now I understand! 

 

I have found the following link which explains it in far more detail than the MBT site, plus it also describes the new MP5.

 

http://www.modelrailroadcontrolsystems.com/mp1-switch-motor/

 

Apart from waiting to see the price of the awaited DCC Concepts version, its main advantage would appear to be the provision of three auxiliaries, to allow for frog switching, interlocking and panel indication. So horses for courses.

 

Have you found a UK supplier for the MP1? I can only see German, Dutch, Polish etc retailers, apart from the US site above.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Mike Storey

[Theakerr]

Initially there seemed to be a number of issues and I was wondering how things were progressing.  I have a project in mind and the speed control aspect makes the Smart Switch a potential drive source.  On that subject can anyone advise how slow is the speed on the slowest setting.  Specifically how long it takes to rotate about 120 degrees.

[dunnyrail]

I was in the borderline of ordering the Peco Servo setup for my Coal Mine Railway.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99508-coal-mine-railway-a-small-00-gauge-project/

 

This has been stalled for a while as I have got fedup with Cobolt Point Motors and their Clicking games. What I do like about them is the 2 wires that can be plugged in and out with ease when removing them when they need replacing due to Clicking issues, not really a good point. So I am thinking I may go down the Megapoint Route for my Servo set up. I will be keeping my Cobolt Lever Frame which I just love.

 

I have a 12 Lever frame with 8 levers for Points and the remaining 4 levers reserved for Dapol Signals, arghhh I know my Signals may need to be Servo'd as well. But at least I will be able use proper Scale Signal Supply kits for my needs and bin the Dapol ones.

 

As ever a few questions:-

1 What do I do about Crossovers where I want 2 points to move at the same time from 1 Lever in the Cobolt Lever Frame?

2 How do I wire the Servos to the Megapoint kit i.e. just using the Cobolt Lever as a simple switch?

3 I guess that I will have to face adding an extra wire to each Servo?

 

The good side with all servo operation is that I will be easier able to disguise the smaler Servos on too of my small layout. Thus far if you look at my thread I have managd to do this with the Cobolts so Servos will be a breeze. Do not like under board wiring! If the answer to my questions is elswhere in the Forum would much appreciate a link as sometimes much discussion has taken place as in this thread till answers appear.

 

Any help much appreciated before I invest real cash again.

JonD

[kirtleypete]

You can't change both points on a crossover at the same time using servos, they have to be changed separately unfortunately. 

 

Peter

[Suzie]

It is all down to how much power is available for the servos - if you have 2A you will be OK for a pair of servos on a crossover, even 1.5A will probably be OK if there is no stiffness in the action.

[John Max]

Suggest look at the ANE site, anemodel.com.tw

I have 28 of these working, unless they have now modified them don't touch the frog boards, they are a nighmare of wiring and problems. If you want live frogs use the Tam Valley frog juicers (brilliant). This is if you are using DCC not DC. The servos are quite big and I have still got to work out how to disguise them, other than having 28 sheds!

[dunnyrail]

You can't change both points on a crossover at the same time using servos, they have to be changed separately unfortunately. 

 

Peter

Hm that makes Servos a no no for me. Or does it? Can I use the Cobolt Point Lever to Operate 2 different Servo's there is a DPDT Switch in them somewhere?

JonD

[dunnyrail]

Suggest look at the ANE site, anemodel.com.tw

I have 28 of these working, unless they have now modified them don't touch the frog boards, they are a nighmare of wiring and problems. If you want live frogs use the Tam Valley frog juicers (brilliant). This is if you are using DCC not DC. The servos are quite big and I have still got to work out how to disguise them, other than having 28 sheds!

I have been using Frog Juicers (2) since starting my Coal Mine Layout, not sure of the make now. They came from Andy Rush's 20ft River Line and worked perfectly for him as well. Key thing to remember with them is that any long loco/train over more than one Frog, each Frog will need to be worked from separate juicer. Though with a big layout with 28 or more points this should be less of a problem. But it does take a bit of planning.

JonD

[njee20]

I throw up to 4 servos from one switch on my MegaPoints boards, agree that having to switch a crossover individually would be a pain.

[smokebox]

You can't change both points on a crossover at the same time using servos, they have to be changed separately unfortunately. 

 

Peter

Why?

 

Can't a "Y" servo cable be used, as is the case with (some) model aircraft servos?

[Gordon H]

Why?

 

Can't a "Y" servo cable be used, as is the case with (some) model aircraft servos?

 

There is no reason why you cannot control two servos with a single switch. The original statement was ill-informed.

However, using a 'Y' Servo cable would not be advisable because it assumes the required throw would be exactly the same for both servos - and in the same direction. Much better to use two separate servo control channels controlled by a single switch. This would allow the two points to be individually set up for end stops, including which way round they work.

[njee20]

I do use y-cables myself, and haven't had issue with different throws. I did it primarily for reasons of economy, as it saved a lot of outputs! Ideally one would have multiple outputs controlled by one switch though I agree.

[dunnyrail]

There is no reason why you cannot control two servos with a single switch. The original statement was ill-informed.

However, using a 'Y' Servo cable would not be advisable because it assumes the required throw would be exactly the same for both servos - and in the same direction. Much better to use two separate servo control channels controlled by a single switch. This would allow the two points to be individually set up for end stops, including which way round they work.

That was roughly what I hoped the situation may be. However it probably means that if I will have to go for 2 Megapoint Boards as I will ultimately have 1 more thing to throw rather than the 12 Terminals. That still does not tell me how I get my Cobolt Switch to throw 2 or even one of them though?

JonD

[John Max]

Using the NCE DCC system you can control up to 100 servos in one go (or other makes and types of switch machines). In my case I have programed up to six which work without the slightest problem. The system though is to fast, the secret is after programing the first servo from then on you have to add each servo twice to create a minute time delay or the program goes straight past to the next one without activating. For instance say 1+3+3+6+6+18+18 and so on any amount in any order. You do have to include normal or reverse direction when programing. This is ideal for a 3 way point which I have 2. you set a program for each of the directions. Also to activate a set of points you just put in say number 9 press enter and the whole series activates.

[Kris]

Peco have issued a recall for some of their Smartfrogs https://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=recall

[jcredfer]

Servos have the power to operate 2 sets of points from one Servo.  The Servo is at 1 and control rods to bell cranks either side to push / pull the switch blades at 2.  The bell cranks have second control rods to the piston in Peco twin microswitch frames and change polarity at the frogs 3 with the second switch in each frame switching the heel protection lines on / off 4.  Perhaps also of note would be the shape of the piano wire from the bell cranks to the switch blades, which allows some light springing to be applied to them.

 

 

Set up correctly, the following can be achieved:-

 

Both points controlled from one servo at speeds you can set on the controller board.

A 180 degree swing on the servo arm, will leave it in line with the servo axle and the piano wire to the bell cranks.  Use most proximal hole on the servo arm so all possible servo chatter is eliminated.

Given enough spring in the switch control arms, the points can either be swung together, or one followed by the other.  the video shows sequential, but I will probably go for swinging together, as that is often how full size do it.

The distance the switch control arm moves is controlled by connecting the servo to holes closer / further from the servo axle, on the longer bell crank arm.

 

Servo arm in line

 

PL-15 micro switch frame - it is just the black bit which has 2 x micro switches attached, with the activating pole / cylinder in the middle.

 

 

 

 

Like to see it work?  .....    Oh, Thomas! 

 

Top first then nearest and reverse

 

It would be perfectly feasible to throw more points by adding a further control rod to a bell crank, linked to the next bell crank etc.  Power from the servos is not a problem.  Even small ones are greater than 1 ft lb, and the hole on the servo arm is about 1/3  inch from the axle and we only want to swing a couple of points.

 

Kind regards

 

Julian

 

[Cyberspice]

I wouldn't buy the PECO system purely because of price. The servos are around 3 quid on eBay. Frog switching can be done with latching relays which are a similar price. I'm controlling the servos with an arduino tiny which costs under a tenner on eBay. Its probably the software that puts people off.

[njee20]

I paid less than £1 via AliExpress, admittedly buying 50 or so.

Edited August 20, 2019 by njee20

[jcredfer]

Servos are mostly value for what you paid, as there are many cheap, "inferior", china made look-alikes of the better brands.  I have model r/c aeroplanes, where that does matter, as one going wrong can cost anything from a couple of hundred to over a thousand pounds, given what it is attached to.  It doesn't matter quite as much on rail projects and is unlikely to cost more than a replacement servo, time replacing it and maybe a fried decoder or bits of a loco to fix.  I prefer to pay for the better ones, with the smoother, quieter, running and reliability, but can certainly understand why others might want to count the pennies, for what is only slightly less performance and little risk.

 

The Peco and several other kits cost very little more than clack machines, with their add-on items, when all is added in, as their kits come complete to fit, point control, with LED indicators/LED signals/alternate choice of control etc.  Peco types can operate several servos from one output, for crossovers, or several items from a single servo, sidings, run-arounds. signals, gates and the like, at which point they become cheaper than clackers.  They are also labelled plug and play items, which makes them simple to use.  Peco and some others can operate from switches, or decoder from either the controller accessory buttons, mimic switches, or both, no additional wiring, just plug in and play.  Like most items, if you want the functions included in the various servo kits, it will end up similarly priced, by the time you have done it all.  If you don't want all those functions, then Peco "et al" are simply not the thing to buy, but there are simpler ones.

 

Regards

 

Julian

[JeremyC]

4 hours ago, Cyberspice said:

I wouldn't buy the PECO system purely because of price. The servos are around 3 quid on eBay. Frog switching can be done with latching relays which are a similar price. I'm controlling the servos with an arduino tiny which costs under a tenner on eBay. Its probably the software that puts people off.

But you have the  knowledge to purchase the parts separately and programme the control unit. Products like the Peco units are aimed at the person who doesn't have that knowledge and wants a 'plug and play' system where all the parts are supplied in a package. 

Too many people on forums like RMWeb forget that a large proportion of those in the hobby are at the train set level of technical knowledge. 

[John Max]

I’m still using the Peco system very successfully, some items have been updated since. I control the turnouts with the Peco decoder unit. What I don’t use is the frog juicer, I had them many problems with them I got rid of the lot for (32) points. I use the Tam Valley frog juicers. Owing, they are absolutely superb, the only problem I had in about 3 years is when I accidentally pulled a wire out and with so many connections took a bit of finding.

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, John Max said:

 What I don’t use is the frog juicer, I had them many problems with them I got rid of the lot for (32) points. ............I use the Tam Valley frog juicers.

 

I am a bit confused.

 

Do you use frog juicers or not?

 

 

[John Max]

Yes I use frog juicers, I find them essential as I have a few very small locos. I use the make Tam Valley which are available in single, double or quad versions. They are available from a number of stockists in the U.K. like Coastal. DCC. I model HO American all DCC, most with sound.