A 'Quickie' out of doors - now Palin's Yard

[peter220950]

No, behave yourselves, this is a quick O Gauge layout made using internal doors as the baseboards, if you were expecting something else you’re in the wrong place.

 

If you’ve seen my other thread on the Cadbury rail system in Bournville you will know that one of my many failings is lack of focus, - so now I’m starting something else to take ages to finish, (to add to Bournville, the military train, the PPM, the rake of coal wagons, the rake of Mk 1’s the storage boxes, the Class 59, the A3, the Class 20, the Duchess……. etc. etc etc………….) - however in my defence, there are several good reasons for this layout, which has been festering in my mind for several years.

 

• There are a number of things which I am using which I could do with testing out in a working layout before spending a lot of time and effort on what might be a wrong avenue. As examples automatic couplings, servo point motors, and foam board for buildings are all items which I’m not yet fully convinced by, having had some mixed results.

 

• I miss exhibiting; as a result there have been a couple of occasions recently when I have had to take some of the Bournville layout apart because I’m rushing things. Worse still is the risk I might commit to a finishing date in order to get it on the circuit and have to compromise. A car friendly ‘quick’ layout would enable me to get back out again and take pressure off the main layout.

 

• The club I’m in has a nice exhibition stand with an 8 foot gap designed to take a small layout, at present the N gauge boys are having it all their own way, it would be nice to have something to slip into the gap for a change. – Not sure who the dodgy looking geezer hanging around the stand is though!

• As I don’t have a home layout either in or out doors it will also be nice to have something more to play with than an 8’ 0” length of shelf with a length of track on, particularly to test loco’s and stock.

• Finally I would like to help dispel several myths about O gauge, - that it’s expensive, that it needs huge amounts of room, and that everything has to be scratch-built. I will try to provide as many alternatives to what I do, as a means of showing the different ways in which O gauge can adapt to whatever budget you may have, and also demonstrate how a bit of lateral thinking and planning can solve what may be perceived as problems.

So here’s the deal, I’m going to build a quick and easy layout, using mainly what’s lying around the house, and I will cost it in various ways. What it’s cost me, what it would cost if I had to buy everything, and what it would cost using proprietary track. Some people have an aversion to building their own track, or think they lack the skill, though I would always advocate having a go. During the build I shall keep an eye on e-bay to see what comes up that would help with a budget build, and will post examples to prove my case. If I can at lease shame one modeler into actually starting a layout instead of explaining why they can’t I shall be happy.

 

I am fortunate in two respects, after 43 years of the 9 till 5 grind, (well 6.15 to 7.30 for much of it), I finished working two years ago, though until September next year I have no income, then I start to pick up pensions, so costs do have to be kept in mind as a consideration. On the other hand I do have more time than many, also being an inveterate hoarder I have most of the items required for the layout already to hand, although I will cost everything used as far as I can, to keep the costing sensible and honest for anyone contemplating a build from scratch..

 

I’m not going to cost tools or materials like, fixings, or glue, but it will be interesting to see what the results are, and a guide for anyone intending to follow suit. I shall also attempt to put together a realistic minimum budget build cost.

 

There was a fascinating thread on RMWeb, that I came across recently, on an 00 layout build for £100.00, which I found very interesting, though for this money there was also a loco and some stock included. At the other end of the scale I note Phil Parkers’ 00 beer festival diorama in a recent BRM that totted up to over £130.00 for something on around 1 square foot of scenery! I would hope I can put the cost of a small O gauge layout into perspective.

 

I have no fixed idea on budget, but am not looking to spend anything I don’t have to, and I’m hoping to demonstrate that O gauge needn’t be expensive. I will keep a spreadsheet updated with alternative costs for each major stage, and I think some will be surprised at how little a working layout can cost.

 

 

The trackplan.

 

For me the bible in O gauge modeling is Gordon Gravetts’ pair of 7mm Modelling books (Wild Swan Publishing), in the second testament, ‘Building a Layout’, is an industrial layout that I have been eyeing up for over 7 years, he intended it as a Brewery, but I shall make it nondescript and thus changeable by altering the stock, accessories and signage.

 

 

 

 

His version is very clever in that it folds to form its own storage box, using low spaces on one half to make room for high buildings in the other.

 

 

Because of space restrictions I don’t think I shall be utilizing this system to hinge and fold the layout, I need the two boards to be as thin as possible, with demountable buildings.

 

Part of the appeal of this layout are the superb illustrations, which evoke an atmosphere that I can only strive to achieve, it’s a simple layout, with only 4 turnouts and a turntable, with a restriction of small loco’s and train lengths of 3 vans, but it suits me as a shunting layout. I shall try to maintain a 3’ 0” radius on any curves to allow the use of Industrial 0-6-0’s.

 

 

With many thanks to both Gordon Gravett, and Wild Swan Publishing for permission to reproduce drawings, I include the original track plan, and inspirational drawings which are in the book, sketched superbly by Gordon. I can only hope to achieve a poor copy of his vision for the layout, but who better to strive to emulate?

 

 

 

Gordon not only readily gave his consent to using the illustrations but obtained permission from Wild Swan as well, he further sent electronic copies of the originals within a couple of days of my initial request for permission to copy them from the book. I shall have to go and visit him at Telford to thank him personally for his kindness.

 

 

I’m not sure if the original intention was to hide the fiddle yard fully or not but I think I shall open it up for the public to see through the windows and doors at the rear of the loading deck, as if there’s a loading area within the building, as shown in the attached photo of Cadbury’s. This way while stuff is moving around the fiddle yard it keeps interest alive from the front of the layout.

 

 

 

 

Stock

 

I already have several suitable loco’s, with more in build, and the wagon requirements are not massive, half a dozen vans, a coal wagon or two, maybe a tanker, some open wagons, and that should do. - I shall also investigate the various budget alternatives.

 

Couplings

 

Part of the reason for the layout is to again try Sprat and Winkle couplings, I have had etches in the past, but never really got to use them in anger, I have also fitted Kaydees to some wagons, so I will hopefully get a resolution to the automatic coupling requirement for Bournville.

 

Control

 

Will again be DCC, with sound. Turnouts will be servo controlled, though anyone on a budget could just as easily use cheap DC 0-4-0’s and hand controlled turnouts. Again I don’t want to invest a couple of hundred pounds on equipment for Bournville only to discover it’s not suitable, or I don’t like it.

 

Transport

 

The aim is to get the whole layout, support, lighting and stock, in a family car, with room for a second operator.

 

Compromise

 

Partly because it was what I had, and partly so it would fit into the space available, I have reduced the width of the layout by 3” to 2’ 3”. I have a bookcase over the bed in the work room which allows a further 8” to be added to the available length but it won’t take a 2’ 6” board.

 

 

This shouldn’t create too much of a problem, the biggest obstacle being the turntable, which has to be 24” diameter to hold a loco and 3 vans, I shall be offsetting the turntable and cutting its sides down to allow for transport.

 

For anyone with real difficulties of storage I still think it might even be possible to compress the length to fit on a single 6’ 6” door at a pinch, then it would slide under a bed, but that’s a step too far for me.

 

 

Timescale

 

As the title infers I don’t want to hang about with this one, otherwise Bournville will suffer undue delay, the aim is to make something workable quickly that will test out various things and allow me to have a play whenever boredom with threading chairs onto rail sets in.

 

In fact the layout itself is already started and track laying has commenced as I write this, I shall detail progress at approximately twice the speed it was actually constructed to catch up on the layout, up to the point that it’s a working entity, omitting the days when I was doing other stuff, and then bring it up to date as and when buildings and scenery are constructed in real time. Having said that, sorting and re-sizing the photo’s could see it stretch out a bit, (I’m guessing around a fortnight). You might spot the odd continuity error as I have tried to keep the work sections in the order the work to date was done, but there have been a couple of bits done out of sequence.

 

I shall have removable buildings both to make the boards easier to store, and to allow upgrades in quality as time permits, or even a complete change to the layout (add scenic canal basin on the front and change buildings to wharfside structures etc.). In addition to budget I shall record the time taken to get to the various stages, to give some indication of the hours required to undertake such a venture.

 

So that’s it for the first post, I shall start with the baseboards shortly to get things rolling, if anyone wants to chip in please feel free, just don’t expect me to take a lot of notice of suggestions for improvement/change, it’s not that I'm ignoring you, it’s that it’s probably already been built…………………………………….

Edited December 12, 2015 by peter220950

[Brookers]

I shall be following this with great interest as I'm giving O gauge serious consideration.

 

I have just ordered both volumes of Gordon Gravett's books. Are there any others you would recomend?

 

Brookers

Edited July 28, 2014 by Brookers

[ThePurplePrimer]

This looks interesting - will be watching this

[81A Oldoak]

I know of a couple of  small RTR industrial locos to get you going.

[peter220950]

I shall be following this with great interest as I'm giving O gauge serious consideration.

 

I have just ordered both volumes of Gordon Gravett's books. Are there any others you would recomned?

 

Brookers

 

I haven't seen or used anything as good as these, I use them for reference and ideas all the time, one of the shelves shown in the photo of the workroom is full of modelling books, but those two are the ones that get used 95% of the time, the only other ones I tend to use are for track building, many of which are 4mm books, but the principles are just the same.

 

When you have stock and layout built, or in progress, the weathering, buildings, and scenery volumes from the same stable are also worth a look, but to get started these to me are the best source of inspiration. For anything else, once you are started, just have a browse on the book stands at any of the exhibitions where they are on sale, and see what takes your fancy.

 

If you want to get hooked just buy a Parkside or similar wagon and a length of track, I'm pretty sure we will then have you addicted! if not you should be able to get your money back on anything built.

 

It's also worth trying to get to one of the O Gauge Guild or ALSRM exhibitions to get a feel for what's out there,

 

http://www.alsrm.org.uk/

http://www.gauge0guild.com/

 

they are at several venues, my mate in Shepton comes up here to go to Telford with me but also goes to Reading on the train (from Castle Carey I think), and there's also a good show at Bristol in January.

 

You don't have to join, but it will give you a flavour of the kits, RTR and accessories that are now coming on stream, it's likely that you will find something to suit any budget, with RTR loco's coming on stream from under £200.

 

I moved 'up' in the 1980's, when you needed tin snips and a soldering iron to do anything in O, but it's remarkable what's now available.

[peter220950]

I know of a couple of  small RTR industrial locos to get you going.

Don't I know it! - I've been trying to resist one of those Fowlers with sound and stay alive's, but I think I'm weakening.

 

I started out intending it for 0-4-0's but have also eased curves and made a 3' 0" template to ensure track and turnouts suit a Hudswell, in preparation........

[Kenton]

Could you clarify the length please. You talk of a stand available with an 8ft gap, then of two doors, then of a reduction possible to one 6'6" door.

 

Just love GG's drawings - artistry.

[flexible_coupling]

That's a great little layout design, very cool....

[peter220950]

Could you clarify the length please. You talk of a stand available with an 8ft gap, then of two doors, then of a reduction possible to one 6'6" door.

 

 

Kenton,

 

Sorry for the confusion, I shall be building it to Gordon's original length of 8 foot, using two doors with 2' 6" cut off each, I was also just speculating that it might be possible to actually get it to fit on one complete door, to effectively avoid any woodwork.

 

There's about 3" at one end which is the road in front of the office building, the turntable could be shortened by 2" and moved to hang over the end, as well as my offset to one side, and a bit of compression here and there should make it possible, if slightly more restrictive, to 'lose' the 1' 6" needed to get it down to door size. That way it could fold flat against a wall over a bed, fit under, or what I have also thought about in the past, hang on the back of an existing door.

 

"Just love GG's drawings - artistry."

 

What I want to know is why one man has so much talent and a wife who can model better than most of us!

[2ManySpams]

"Just love GG's drawings - artistry."

 

What I want to know is why one man has so much talent and a wife who can model better than most of us!

 

Totally agree with both you and Kenton!

[3 link]

I know of a couple of  small RTR industrial locos to get you going.

 

Forever the salesman  .

 

Martyn.

[81A Oldoak]

Forever the salesman  .

 

Martyn.

As Robert Louis Stevenson wrote, "Everyone lives by selling something."

[peter220950]

Forever the salesman  .

 

Martyn.

 

I think of him more as a 'dealer'

 

 

Children all over the country are going hungry because 'daddy couldn't resist just one more loco'.

[Giles]

What I want to know is why one man has so much talent and a wife who can model better than most of us!

...... And two of the nicest people you could care to meet!

 

You're fighting a losing battle with the Fowler - there'll be one running there in no time, I'll be bound......

[alant]

I've had Gordon's book for some time now and have always been a fan of this layout idea. Good look with the build, will follow with interest.

 

Alan.

[flexible_coupling]

...... And two of the nicest people you could care to meet!

 

You're fighting a losing battle with the Fowler - there'll be one running there in no time, I'll be bound......

 

As someone that picks his up from layby tomorrow morning... I can attest to the lure of the little green (soon to be blue and hopefully S7!) loco. It had been taunting me in the shop window for months!

[hartleymartin]

36" radius is about a scale 2 chains. This is pretty darned tight, and only very short-wheelbase 0-6-0 locomotives would have managed to go around these. I hope that the new Dapol Terrier will manage the same.

[81A Oldoak]

36" radius is about a scale 2 chains. This is pretty darned tight, and only very short-wheelbase 0-6-0 locomotives would have managed to go around these. I hope that the new Dapol Terrier will manage the same.

Our Hudswell Clarke is 5'9" + 5'9" and will easily traverse a 36" radius curve. In trials it started to protest at 28" radius. The Terrier's wheelbase is 6' + 6' so I would expect it to be able to negotiate 36" radius. I've ordered two Dapol Terriers. I'm not a Southern Railway or Region type, but anything with Richard "Lionheart" Webster's fingerprints on will be worth owning. His Lionheart 64XX pannier tank loco is a peach, as are the autocoach and wagons from the same stable.

[peter220950]

Stage 1 The Baseboards

 

Bournville has baseboards, made from joinery shop cut timbers, of unusual design, built with cost as no compromise, and took many months to design and build. This time I was looking for something a bit quicker, easier and cheaper.

 

Why then am I using internal doors? – Well they are cheap, rigid and light. For those, (like me), with few woodworking skills they provide a simple way to provide a solid flat track base. A door similar to the ones I would need, but wider, has stood outside my front door, under cover but exposed to the elements, for longer than I care to remember, yet it remains as straight as a die. As well as building the layout I finally managed to get this one up to the tip.

 

 

The down side is that there isn’t such good access for wiring or mounting point motors, hopefully I can show that this isn’t an insurmountable problem.

 

Internal flush doors come in a variety of sizes from around 2’ 0” x 6’ 6” up, in widths of 3” increments, don’t use fire doors as they are solid cored and very heavy.

 

A quick search of websites indicates that they are available from next to nothing, for used or damaged doors, to around £25.00 for a new door. Damage isn’t really a problem as there’s a chunk to be cut off, and the finished surface will be covered with scenery anyway.

 

 

I need two 4’ 0” boards to suit the track plan, I could have  gone for a 6’ 0” board and a 2’ 0” one, to keep all of the turnouts on one board, and the turntable on the other, but storage and handling also come into the equation.

 

Starting with what might prove to be a recurring theme in the thread I started by hunting around to see what was lying about, sure enough a couple of correct width doors were located in the depths of the garage.

 

 

First job was to get the doors to the correct length, the required length was marked and scored with a Stanley knife. A timber batten was temporarily screwed to the door at the edges, (where the framing is), at an offset suitable to guide a jigsaw or circular saw blade. A strip of masking tape was stuck on to minimize edge damage, though again not really necessary, and the end was cut off the door.

 

 

For those with few skills and few tools the batten can be screwed on the cutting line as a guide for a hand saw, or the face of the door can be cut through with repeated strokes of the Stanley knife, allowing for just a bit of sawing to the side rails. There’s also a chance you will hit a solid block of wood used to house the door latch so don’t worry if it suddenly gets difficult to cut.

 

The timber end rail from the removed door section can be cut down, and the door face can be trimmed off to provide a filler for the uncut end if required, or if you’re feeling flush £3.00 or so will buy a 28mm thick timber to infil the ends, this being my first expenditure on the layout.

 

 

 

To join the two doors I am reverting to a pair of pattern makers dowels and holes for bolts and threaded inserts. For those on a budget these can be dispensed with, a thin ply ledge can be fixed to bottom of one of the boards at one end, to allow the adjoining board to sit on it, and a pair of clamps used to hold the boards together, or over centre catches on the front and back.

 

I made a simple drilling jig from a bit of foam-board to ensure that the holes were in the same position on each board, and pilot holes were drilled of about 2mm diameter.

 

Pattern makers dowels and brass threaded sleeves were inserted into the boards and to provide holes for bolts, access holes were cut in the bottom of the one of the doors to allow insertion and tightening of bolts. A length of 8mm studding is screwed into the brass bushes, the layout is pushed together, and the wing nuts are tightened up to assemble the layout, simple, cheap and cheerful.

 

 

The pockets formed for the wing nut access can be replicated to place point motors under the track if using conventional motors, once wired a cover of some sort will keep them protected.

 

For those on a tight budget the door off-cuts can be re-used as timber for back scenes and the like, or with further doors, as a support trestle for the layout.

 

 

Just to show my woodworking skills are about as good as my ballet dancing ability I show the joint, which has resulted in a flush board surface joint, but with a slight offset between the boards, not to worry, I will sort his out when installing front and back trims or take off the surplus with a rotary planer.

 

 

Costs for the baseboard phase.

 

To date everything has been using stock items, except for the infil to the board ends, so there’s been very little cost on my build (£2.20).

 

If buying new, a pair of doors and fixings should cost around £60.00 and if doing it on a budget it can be completed for anywhere between £15.00 and £25.00, using second hand or damaged doors, not bad for a pair of baseboards?

 

Time Taken

 

This phase has taken me two days, bearing mind that due to other commitments a ‘day’ represents about 3 hours modeling, there’s always plenty of other things that need doing around the house and garden, so it’s 2 ‘till 5 modelling time on a bad day, and 9 ‘till 12 as well on a good one..

 

[Brookers]

I haven't seen or used anything as good as these, I use them for reference and ideas all the time, one of the shelves shown in the photo of the workroom is full of modelling books, but those two are the ones that get used 95% of the time, the only other ones I tend to use are for track building, many of which are 4mm books, but the principles are just the same.

 

When you have stock and layout built, or in progress, the weathering, buildings, and scenery volumes from the same stable are also worth a look, but to get started these to me are the best source of inspiration. For anything else, once you are started, just have a browse on the book stands at any of the exhibitions where they are on sale, and see what takes your fancy.

 

If you want to get hooked just buy a Parkside or similar wagon and a length of track, I'm pretty sure we will then have you addicted! if not you should be able to get your money back on anything built.

 

It's also worth trying to get to one of the O Gauge Guild or ALSRM exhibitions to get a feel for what's out there,

 

http://www.alsrm.org.uk/

http://www.gauge0guild.com/

 

they are at several venues, my mate in Shepton comes up here to go to Telford with me but also goes to Reading on the train (from Castle Carey I think), and there's also a good show at Bristol in January.

 

You don't have to join, but it will give you a flavour of the kits, RTR and accessories that are now coming on stream, it's likely that you will find something to suit any budget, with RTR loco's coming on stream from under £200.

 

I moved 'up' in the 1980's, when you needed tin snips and a soldering iron to do anything in O, but it's remarkable what's now available.

 

Thanks for the reply, I will keep my eyes open for books.

I have looked at joining the guild already. I think I will take your advice and order a wagon kit and some track. I'm thinking about having a go at building my own, would C&L point in a bag kit be a good starting point?

 

Part two is good, I'm already looking forward to part three!

 

ATB

 

Brookers

[peter220950]

 

Brookers

I think I will take your advice and order a wagon kit and some track. - Gotcha!

I'm thinking about having a go at building my own, would C&L point in a bag kit be a good starting point?  

 

A C&LPoint kit is a good starter as they supply timbering in appropriate lengths, parts filed up, vee pre-made, and the variety of chairs you need. Otherwise you have to spend a lot of money buying packets of 250 chairs, only to find you don't take to it.

 

See how you get on and if you like it you will probably get confident enough to make the Vee's and blades yourself, saving quite a bit of money. C&L track is also probably better than Peco in an ideal world, the rails are slightly canted and it has a solid underside to the sleepering which I find easier to stick down.

 

I'm using Peco on this layout purely because there's several yards in the roof so it costs nothing, this is that sort of layout, it's primary function is testing stuff.

 

If you decide that track building is for you, have a look at the Exactoscale chairs, they are pricey but in my humble opinion much better mouldings. (On the left)

 

 

And for timbering I still think nothing beats timber!

 

[Kenton]

 

And for timbering I still think nothing beats timber!

 

at least for wooden sleepers

[peter220950]

I know of a couple of  small RTR industrial locos to get you going.

 

 

Bad news Chris,

 

I took the Octavia up to book an MOT yesterday, and to get an opinion on the ominous knocking, which I thought was a clutch release bearing, looks like its a new dual mass flywheel, and clutch, which together with air-con pump-up, overdue service, brake pads, reversing sensor repairs, looks like 1k+, the damn thing's only 7 years old. (Still it has done 180k!) so it's bye bye Fowler.........ta -ta Hudswell Clarke.

 

 

 

 

 

Good news Chris,

 

When I got home from leaving my garage mans' pension plan behind for repairs, I met with my own pensions man, to see if I had to do anything in the tax year before my 'official' retirement date.

 

One of the pensions, a final salary scheme, which was assumed to get me 6k a year, turns out to have had some sort of index linking from when I left in 2001, so it's now 8k+, added to which I can take it early for a loss of 4% per annum.

As I'm not going to pay any tax on it this year or next, I am picking up on that option, so I shall start to get some income again in October, a year early. - Hello Fowler..........Hi Hudswell Clarke, what's a nice pair of loco's like you doing without an owner at Christmas time!

[Guest Isambarduk]

Well done, Peter220950. 

 

It's a strange old world isn't it - and welcome to retirement!  It's not all beer and skittles but it certainly beats working full-time .... and a little part-time/pick and choose work is nice if that fits in.

 

I'm sure you'll enjoy your Ixion Fowler and Hudswell Clarke even if you just open the boxes and play with them, rather than spending lots of time modifying them or making them into something else (now I can't think who would do that?  :-)

 

David

[peter220950]

Well done, Peter220950. 

 

It's a strange old world isn't it - and welcome to retirement!  It's not all beer and skittles but it certainly beats working full-time .... and a little part-time/pick and choose work is nice if that fits in.

 

I'm sure you'll enjoy your Ixion Fowler and Hudswell Clarke even if you just open the boxes and play with them, rather than spending lots of time modifying them or making them into something else (now I can't think who would do that?  :-)

 

David

Thanks David,

 

I have been retired for two years but just haven't drawn down any of the pensions, as Annuity rates were so pathetic, which tends to deplete the bank balance a bit! Good job because of all the changes that are happening to pensions next April. By now I have reached that stage of 'couldn't do anything part time, I don't have the time.'

 

It will be nice to get some RTR loco's, to play with while I'm building all the other stuff I seem to have accumulated over the years. I thought buying it in advance it would mean modelling got cheaper in retirement, but every time I start something I find I need £50.00 worth of this and that to complete it - and I haven't dared open the boxes for the Blue Pullman, bogies, wheels, motors, chips, paint, transfers. - think it might have been cheaper to buy a Loveless set!  -  Not that it's particularly suited to an 8 foot layout.