finishing off an Alan Gibson 2F

[sej]

I've decided to start a new thread so as not to clutter up my 7mm scratch-build one any more than it already is. I'll try to keep to the main topic on this one.

 

I've offered to finish off an Alan Gibson LMS 2F kit for a friend and to keep a diary of the process and where better to do that than on RMWeb?

 

The chassis' of both the loco and tender are semi complete and to P4 gauge. Pick-up is via split axles/split chassis and most of the work is done except to sort the tender wheels out, which will involve some lathing. That'll be exciting as I'm going to be taught how to do it! The motor will be mounted in the tender with a shaft driving the loco wheels, all newish stuff to me, I'm looking forward to it.

 

The loco body is very cleanly soldered up and nice and square. It requires detailing and as it's all ready to be marked up for handrail knobs that's where I decided to start.

 

 

It has been in its box in the secret kits cupboard for a few years so I cleaned it up a bit with a brass brush in the mini-drill.

 

 

I then marked the centre line of the handrail with the electric callipers, holding the body squarely on a metal rule. Not entirely recommended as it causes some wear to the measuring surfaces, but very convenient.

 

 

After some careful marking out, looking at the photos of No. 58213, and using the drawing on the kit box lid, I drilled the holes for the hand rail knobs and the washout plugs, (there were some lovely little turnings in the kit).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[macgeordie]

Nice model, the only Alan Gibson loco I have built is the Jinty and the chassis was a nightmare, I ended up throwing it in the bin and replacing it with a Comet one.

 

I shall follow your thread with interest

 

Ian

[sej]

Cheers Ian, sorry to hear about your chassis, lucky for me this one has already been done.

 

I do like Alan Gibson's stuff, particularly the range of castings and their service is always excellent.

 

This loco body is beautifully fine and the thinner brass parts can be rather delicate.

I decided to reinforce the back of the smoke-box with a shaped piece of rather stiffer nickel silver.

 

 

Looking closely at photos of No. 58213 I could see some further beading and stiffening strips(?) on the cab sides, so I soldered on pieces of 5 thou nickel strip topped with fine copper wire.

 

 

You can see also here that I had to drift the boiler hand-rail knob holes down a little, with a fine burr in the mini drill, to make sure the hand-rail lined up properly.

 

 

To fit the body to the footplate I needed to file these smoke-box locating pieces down a little to get everything snug and straight.

 

 

And all nicely soldered together with those beautiful little knobs on.

 

 

Does anyone know where I can get hold of some LMS mud-hole castings, or could lead me to a good photo so's I can scratch-build some?

 

 

 

 

[sej]

Struggling with a new computer here so, fingers crossed.

 

 

Bingo! Scratch-building's much more fun though.

 

I've added the cab handrails from 0.7mm brass rod tapered in the hand drill against files and wet and dry lying flat on the work surface. The small brackets attaching the rails to the roof are formed from slices of square section tube and the attachments to the cab beading are 16BA washers. 

 

Also added are the nicely cast brake injector on the right hand side plus the reversing rod which I beefed up with some strip and a 16BA nut. I'm not entirely sure what the brake injector does but I can guess. Still wandering about the mud-hole thingies.

 

 

[david.hill64]

. I'm not entirely sure what the brake injector does but I can guess.

<Pedant mode on>

I think it is actually a brake ejector, used for creating a vacuum in the brake pipe and hence releasing the train brakes.

<Pedant mode off>

 

Nice looking model coming along well.

David

[sej]

Cheers David, do you know why they were stuck out there on the smoke-box, and were they operated via a rod through the hand rail?

 

Simon

[david.hill64]

Cheers David, do you know why they were stuck out there on the smoke-box, and were they operated via a rod through the hand rail?

 

Simon

Not precisely: on more modern locos the ejector was in the cab with a steam exhaust pipe going to the smokebox. In its simplest form the ejector consists of a cone that is used to combine steam and air from the vacuum, pipe: the pressure of the steam can be thought to draw the air form the brake pipe creating a vacuum. The steam and air is exhausted through the smokebox which operates at  a partial vacuum when the loco is working, so that perhaps helps the process of evacuation. Early locos had teh ejector on teh smkebox and I am guessing that they were operated by a rod through the handrail as you suggest.

 

The depth of knowledge on this forum is such that I am sure somebody will know for certain!

[Stubby47]

Knowing zip all about these sorts of things, but I don't see any boiler bands.

 

Did the 2F not have them or are they only a livery addition ( where seen) ?

 

Stu

[sej]

Thanks David, I always find it very useful to know the function of things when I'm building, it helps to know why they're where they are. And it's interesting too.

 

Stu, well spotted, the photos I've got show a couple of boiler bands. They're just about to go on; from a nice little set of Gibson etches.

 

Cheers

Simon

[N15class]

Simon

Nice looking build. I did a 7mm one last year.

I use selotapes magic tape for boiler bands. Paint it body colour. ( can be lined if needed). Cut in strips and apply after painting, when varnished they are fixed. Much easier and look better than soldered on brass.

[sej]

Cheers Peter, I'm a bit of a fan of magic tape boiler bands myself.

 

The 2F already had one brass boiler band on the fire-box and I had some nice fine, etched bands so I thought I'd have a go with those. The J15 has magic tape ones. Now I'm not sure which I like best.

 

 

 

[sej]

Some fiddly stuff has gone on, I built up the frame fronts and piano lid (did the Midland call the cover over the piston fronts, (if that's what it is), the "piano lid"? It's a nice name.

 

In order to rivet the small shaped pieces of the frame fronts I soldered them to some scrap to fit into the machine.

 

 

The front end was then soldered up and some sand box filler caps added from 14 BA bolts and 16 BA washers.

 

More bits and pieces included the small box shaped additions to the cab sides (are they tool boxes or are they covering some mysterious mechanical bits and pieces?).

 

 

 

 

Nearly there.

 

 

[Quarryscapes]

Well that's a lovely looking little loco you have there, some very nice workmanship too. 

[sej]

Thank you very much everyone.

 

I'm really enjoying this build, I knew nothing of these little locos before I started and now I find them to be very charismatic and full of character.

 

Talking of which, after a great deal of thought (mostly during lane swimming) I think I've finally come up with a reasonably robust way of making the mud-hole mechanisms.The LMS didn't seem to go for those dinky little domed covers that the GWR used and allowed the clamps to rather indelicately flaunt themselves.

 

From close observation of photos, No. 58213 at least, appears to have circular discs on the surface of the fire-box with what I take to be the clamps sitting on top.

 

Meridian Models do a fantastic little etch of flanges and what-not and there are some spot on discs with rivets for exactly what I needed.

 

 

I filed each one as thin as I dared (very good pedicure practice).

 

 

Then shaped them to fit the curvature of the fire-box top by crushing between a small diameter rod and a block of balsa wood in the vice.

 

 

The mechanisms were filed up from a 16BA nut soldered to a bolt and held in the pin vice.

 

 

And then soldered through a hole in the centre of the "cap".

 

 

Only two more to go.

[sej]

I've had an interesting conversation with another RMWeb member regarding my resistance to resistance soldering.He had some excellent advice for making things a little less fraught, so I've unbuckled my probe and had another go.

My main problem was keeping the plate clean and I've bought a fantastic one from Mr Agenoria Models which I understand is produced by his apprentices. It's a fantastic piece of work in stainless steel with a choice of right-angled or rod clamps. And it stays clean, marvellous! Good value too.

It hasn't stopped me burning through hand-rail wires and I'm still not particularly keen on the process, but I will persevere. It's very good for holding small pieces down while soldering and it is BRILLIANT for unsoldering things.

 

Meanwhile I've reached the stage with the 2F loco body where I can stop and get on with the tender before adding the final last details such as the smoke-box front lamp iron and various Archer Transfer rivets. They'll go on during the painting process. I notice I still need to do some cleaning up too.

The last few things to do where the charming little tardis-like air vent on the roof, which I punched from a piece of thin brass before soldering on wire supports.

 

 

 

The loco is to be driven from a tender mounted motor so the back-head has to accommodate the drive-shaft.

 

 

I eventually drilled a hole through the back-head just about where the doors where and soldered up a temporary floor and splashers. The back-head is held in place with blue-tack 'til all the clearances are sorted out.

 

 

And now she awaits her tender.

 

 

 

 

[45609]

Hi Simon,

 

You are making a very nice job of finishing off the 2F.  Adding lots of subtle detail like this really makes the model.  I noticed your other thread asking about tenders for this loco and I agree with the other replies you've had that the tender hauled by 58213 is indeed a 3250 gallon.  Judging by the coal rails it appears that it is a low front tender but the addition of the tender cab, unsual in itself, makes it difficult to tell for sure.  Did you also notice the steps at the back of the tender?  Not a normal feature but added in conjunction with the tender cab.  Are you planning to finish the model as per the photo of 58213?  If so you ought really file the capuchon off the chimney.

 

Can I also ask where you got the Meridian Models fret of detail parts from?  I Googled "Meridian Models" and found a website for narrow gauge kits.  Is this right as I couldn't find any detailing parts listed.

 

Finally I thought I'd give a link to the 2F I acquired and refurbished a couple of years ago.  This loco has the wrong tender.  It should actually be hauling the smaller 2950 gallon version.  I'm in the process of building a replacement.

 

Cheers...Morgan

[sej]

Hi Morgan, thanks very much for your help and comments.

 

The Meridian Models you found is the right one. They do a range of Narrow Gauge kits, I bought the detail frets from their web-site although I can't find them listed now. They do two sizes: MP101 which is about 25% smaller than the one I show which is MP 104. I've used both for 4mm locos and the larger one for 7mm as well. You could email them and ask, they do other useful details too.

 

I've been staring at photos of 58213 for weeks and hadn't noticed the chimney at all, thanks for pointing it out, I shall be wielding the file as soon as I've finished this. Thanks also for your remarks on the tenders. I'll scratch-build the 3250 gallon sides etc., onto the kit frames (if they're appropriate). You can get a nice down-load of the tender dimensions and construction from the Alan Gibson web-site. Good luck with your build, are you going to put it up on the web-site?

 

Cheers

Simon 

[sej]

Here's the de-capuchonned chimney and the chassis showing the gearbox from which the drive shaft emanates.

 

 

Also, my marvellous Agenoria resistance soldering plate. I notice I need to give it a bit of a clean...

 

[EKR]

Thanks for the photo of your plate. I'll check it out at Telford.

 

As I said, liberation for me was throwing away that boat anchor of a plate which is far too cumbersome for a mobile worktop.

Using the clip allows me to twist and turn items for better visibility and access.

 

Love your probe though. Worn down by overuse (Btw LRM do fast and inexpensive replacements.)

 

It's also brilliant for just nudging an already soldered item a millimeter left or right for final tweaking.

[Clive Baker]

I have recently purchased a professionally built Alan Gibson 2F. Built for its previous owner some years ago to 00 gauge standards, I am converting the model to suit EM gauge. Although the original box label indicates that the kit included wheels (presumably Gibson products) , the model has been fitted with Romford driving wheels scaled to 4' 11" diameter. I note that the cab spectacles on your model are the usual four, two rectangular and two oval, whereas my model is fitted with the very rare two circular spectacles which I believe are only associated with a handful of locomotives with 5' 3" driving wheels. I would be grateful to know if the manufacturer offered an option for these cab details as I am aware that there was a choice of round top or Belpaire fire boxes. Thank you for a very informative and helpful article. Clive Baker.

[sej]

Hi Clive, thankyou. After much inactivity on the 2F front I've actually begun to finish things off so there may be some progress to post on this particular thread in the near future. Which means I've dug the original box out of the depths of the to-do pile and whilst I don't have the instructions, there is an alternative cab front with the circular spec plates, still in place on an etch. Mind you there are a ton of other bits and pieces in there too, including a set of plates for Great Western Dukes (!) so whilst I can't be exactly sure, it looks like Mr Gibson does allow for your variant.

 

These are cracking little locos, do you have a picture of yours? Mine has P4 Gibson wheels and it looks as if there should be a reasonable amount of space for some slightly larger drivers in EM.

 

Cheers

Simon

[PenrithBeacon]

Like the body, like it lots! AGW kits are not easy, not easy at all. More like scratch aids, and I think to get that result is an achievement.

 

But isn't there an issue with the chassis? The body seems to be sitting very high.

 

Regards

[sej]

Hi David, thanks for your interest, I'll have a check on the body/chassis height. The body was just sitting on the chassis in the photos so fixing it down may change the fit. I'll do some measuring!

 

Cheers

Simon

[Clive Baker]

Hi Clive, thankyou. After much inactivity on the 2F front I've actually begun to finish things off so there may be some progress to post on this particular thread in the near future. Which means I've dug the original box out of the depths of the to-do pile and whilst I don't have the instructions, there is an alternative cab front with the circular spec plates, still in place on an etch. Mind you there are a ton of other bits and pieces in there too, including a set of plates for Great Western Dukes (!) so whilst I can't be exactly sure, it looks like Mr Gibson does allow for your variant.

 

These are cracking little locos, do you have a picture of yours? Mine has P4 Gibson wheels and it looks as if there should be a reasonable amount of space for some slightly larger drivers in EM.

 

Cheers

Simon

Thank you Simon, Once I am certain that no small wheeled versions with that cab configuration existed, I will be investing in some 21mm driving wheels and will post a picture of the converted loco on one of its home layouts.

[Clive Baker]

Hi Clive, thankyou. After much inactivity on the 2F front I've actually begun to finish things off so there may be some progress to post on this particular thread in the near future. Which means I've dug the original box out of the depths of the to-do pile and whilst I don't have the instructions, there is an alternative cab front with the circular spec plates, still in place on an etch. Mind you there are a ton of other bits and pieces in there too, including a set of plates for Great Western Dukes (!) so whilst I can't be exactly sure, it looks like Mr Gibson does allow for your variant.

 

These are cracking little locos, do you have a picture of yours? Mine has P4 Gibson wheels and it looks as if there should be a reasonable amount of space for some slightly larger drivers in EM.

 

Cheers

Simon

Hello Simon

 

I found a suitable prototype no 3147, correct spectacle plate and 4' 11" driving wheels, unfortunately scrapped in 1929. Picture attached.