Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanker

[Hroth]

I've several, acquired second-hand.  The previous owner had deflanged the middle wheelset and I've not had any problems with derailments.  From a normal viewing distance/angle, the lack of flanges is not apparent.

[Neal Ball]

What era would the different liveries be? Do they go back as far as the 1930's?

 

Thanks

[Karhedron]

What era would the different liveries be? Do they go back as far as the 1930's?

 

The brightly coloured liveries are generally of 1930s vintage (although there are some exceptions). Milk tankers were pooled during WW2 IIRC and it was then that the ubiquitous silver started to appear. Some colourful liveries were later in origin (the orange and white St Ivel livery was a 70s development IIRC). Also, some tankers lingered on in their pre-war colour schemes for a very long time as these vehicles were not a high priority for repainting.

 

I think that Express Dairies used a blue livery at one point after nationalisation (although I am not 100% sure on this). Are you looking for any area/livery/dairy company in particular? If you have something specific in mind, I may be able to date it or suggest something suitable for your needs.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

The following summary shows the rough dates for some of the liveries applied by Dapol to their N gauge milk tankers. This is not my work so I cannot accept credit for the effort or blame for any mistakes but it should be a pretty good guide.

 

NB-028 Express (dark blue) 30s

NB-031 United Dairies (white) 30s

NB-031 IMS (red) 30s

NB-032 Co-Op Wholesale (green) 30s

NB-044 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s typeface, but possibly fictional

NB-045 Milk Marketing Board 60s

NB-050 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60s

NB-054 IMS (blue) 30s

NB-056 Co-Op Wholesale (red) 30s

NB-115A Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictional

NB-115B Milk Marketing Board 60s

NB-115C Express (light blue) Uses 60s/70s logo, but possibly fictional

NB-115D IMS (blue) 30s

2F-031-001 United Dairies (white) 30s

2F-031-002 Express (dark blue) 30s

2F-031-003 IMS (red) 30s

2F-031-004 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60s

2F-031-005 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictional

 

Many of the liveries survived long after the original dates shown above. The photo below from Paul Bartlett's site shows a tanker still in rather worn 1930s IMS blue in 1968.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmilk/h3aa0837f#h3aa0837f

Edited November 8, 2016 by Karhedron

[hmrspaul]

 

Many of the liveries survived long after the original dates shown above. The photo below from Paul Bartlett's site shows a tanker rather worn 1930s IMS blue in 1963.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmilk/h3aa0837f#h3aa0837f

1968. I'm not that old (And touchy!)   There are also blue and red tanks in my collections. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks

 

Paul

[Karhedron]

The reddish tanker shown below at St Erth is an intriguing one.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/h3d9c41c5#h3d9c41c5

 

I had seen dirty reddish tankers dotted through rakes in photos from the 1970s and I assumed they were very old and faded pre-nationalisation liveries (I believe both IMS and CWS used red liveries during the 1930s).

 

But that photo is a good close up and shows no trace of any branding (the IMS liveried tanker at Clapham Junction above still has legible branding). So what livery is it wearing? Did some tankers receive a reddish livery after nationalisation alongside the more familiar silver one?

[81C]

The reddish tankers might be IMS livery CWS were green in the 30's, as for Dapol wheels the best place for them is the bin Hornby's latest wheel seem to be more robust but the back to backs must be check and check all the wheels sit on the track the chassis could have a slight twist in it.

[Fat Controller]

The reddish tanker shown below at St Erth is an intriguing one.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/h3d9c41c5#h3d9c41c5

 

I had seen dirty reddish tankers dotted through rakes in photos from the 1970s and I assumed they were very old and faded pre-nationalisation liveries (I believe both IMS and CWS used red liveries during the 1930s).

 

But that photo is a good close up and shows no trace of any branding (the IMS liveried tanker at Clapham Junction above still has legible branding). So what livery is it wearing? Did some tankers receive a reddish livery after nationalisation alongside the more familiar silver one?

There were some red tanks, along with others in blue (not the light blue of the MMB, but something darker), and orange or orange and white ones. I don't know who operated the first two types, but the latter two were St Ivels. Were pre-war ones ever in 'silver'? The 'silver' (more usually crud-coloured) ones had aluminium cladding covering the insulation, which I suspect would be a post WW2 innovation; prior to that, it would be painted mild steel.

[Karhedron]

There were some red tanks, along with others in blue (not the light blue of the MMB, but something darker), and orange or orange and white ones.

I was aware of the St Ivel livery but I didn't realise that red and blue were both used post-nationalisation. Would the dark blue have been MMB livery like this?

 

[hmrspaul]

I was aware of the St Ivel livery but I didn't realise that red and blue were both used post-nationalisation. Would the dark blue have been MMB livery like this?

 

This is the one I recorded http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e2f6286a5   http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e35ff1359

 

This is the red one, no sign of ownership http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e3d9c41c5

 

There were some lovely St. Ivels published in the HMRS Journal a few years ago, not dated unfortunately but I believe late 1960s. I only recorded this livery on the shorter, smaller diameter 2000 gallon tanks. Very different with the raked end stanchions and the tie downs inside the solebar. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e3fcbd9d4

 

Paul

[Ben04uk]

This is the one I recorded http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e2f6286a5   http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e35ff1359

 

This is the red one, no sign of ownership http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e3d9c41c5

 

There were some lovely St. Ivels published in the HMRS Journal a few years ago, not dated unfortunately but I believe late 1960s. I only recorded this livery on the shorter, smaller diameter 2000 gallon tanks. Very different with the raked end stanchions and the tie downs inside the solebar. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e3fcbd9d4

 

Paul

Any idea which edition of the HMRS Journal it was?

[Neal Ball]

The following summary shows the rough dates for some of the liveries applied by Dapol to their N gauge milk tankers. This is not my work so I cannot accept credit for the effort or blame for any mistakes but it should be a pretty good guide. NB-028 Express (dark blue) 30sNB-031 United Dairies (white) 30sNB-031 IMS (red) 30sNB-032 Co-Op Wholesale (green) 30sNB-044 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s typeface, but possibly fictionalNB-045 Milk Marketing Board 60sNB-050 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60sNB-054 IMS (blue) 30sNB-056 Co-Op Wholesale (red) 30sNB-115A Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictionalNB-115B Milk Marketing Board 60sNB-115C Express (light blue) Uses 60s/70s logo, but possibly fictionalNB-115D IMS (blue) 30s2F-031-001 United Dairies (white) 30s2F-031-002 Express (dark blue) 30s2F-031-003 IMS (red) 30s2F-031-004 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60s2F-031-005 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictionalMany of the liveries survived long after the original dates shown above. The photo below from Paul Bartlett's site shows a tanker still in rather worn 1930s IMS blue in 1968.http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmilk/h3aa0837f#h3aa0837f

Thanks for the replies. My era is 1930's GWR, plenty of suggestions above. Thanks again.

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the replies. My era is 1930's GWR, plenty of suggestions above. Thanks again.

Hi there,

 

The following Dairy companies operated on the GWR so are probably the ones you will be most interested in.

 

Express Dairies: South Acton, Frome, St Helier

Milk Marketing Board: Felin Fach, Pont Llanio

United Dairies: Lostwithiel, Yetminster, Ealing Bwy, Mitre Bridge, Wootton Bassett, Shepherds Bush, Carmarthen, Whitland, Buckingham, Hemyock, St Earth

Nestle: Lostwithiel, Martock, Holt Junc

CWS Dairies: Melksham, Wallingford, Llangadog

Dried Milk Products: Lostwithiel, Wincanton

London Co-operative: West Ealing

 

Some plants changed ownership as Dairies merged or changed. Lothwithiel was originally built by Nestle before going to DMP and finally ending up with Unigate.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Karhedron

[chrisf]

I think m'learned friend means Felin Fach rather than Felin Fran.  The reference to Acton should, I think, be to South Acton [bollo Lane] and that to Ealing Broadway puzzles me unless London Co-op shared with UD at West Ealing.  Did the list come from one of David Larkin's books by any chance?

 

Chris

[Karhedron]

Hi Chris, thanks for spotting the errors, I have corrected them in the OP.

 

The list comes from the 1956 Handbook of Stations although I didn't transcribe it myself. I agree that Ealing Broadway is a bit of puzzler so best to take that one with a large pinch of salt.

[adb968008]

Does St Helier come under GWR ?, Only ever seen pictures of SR stuff going here, from Clapham Junction ? 

Not sure where the origin point was.

(By St Helier I'm thinking you mean Morden, about a mile away from St Helier ?)

Edited November 18, 2016 by adb968008

[Karhedron]

That is a good question. There was a milk train starting from Weymouth (which was GWR and only transferred to the SR in 1958). I believe this carried milk from the Channel Islands and I assumed it meant St Helier on Jersey.

 

I am quite prepared to be mistaken about that though as I have not been able to find out much about the Weymouth milk train.

[chrisf]

FWIW I think the reference to St Helier in the list should be to Morden South.

 

While this correspondence has been going on I have found a reference in a CWP which I had half-recalled to the destinations of tanks conveyed by various milk trains.  The following comes from the Exeter CWP for winter 1961-62.  I am sorry that it does not specify dairies!

 

Weekdays, 5.40 pm Wellington to West Ealing: Wood Lane, Vauxhall, Wandsworth Road, Stewarts Lane, Mottingham, Morden South, East Croydon, Mitre Bridge, Queens Park, Bollo Lane, Cricklewood, Bow, Ilford, Stratford, Kensington Olympia, West Ealing.

 

The same destinations were served by the two up trains from Penzance to Kensington Olympia which were marshalled in a different order. 

 

Both originating points and destinations would have varied from day to day according to demand.

 

HTH

 

Chris

[Karhedron]

This is the red one, no sign of ownership http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks/e3d9c41c5

I wonder if that is a United Dairies/Unigate tanker? Their road tankers were painted in this sort of colour in the 50s and 60s.

 

[Hailstone]

That looks like White city stadium in the background, so I assume that this is Wood lane depot

 

Regards,

 

Alex

[LBRJ]

The following summary shows the rough dates for some of the liveries applied by Dapol to their N gauge milk tankers. This is not my work so I cannot accept credit for the effort or blame for any mistakes but it should be a pretty good guide.

 

NB-028 Express (dark blue) 30s

NB-031 United Dairies (white) 30s

NB-031 IMS (red) 30s

NB-032 Co-Op Wholesale (green) 30s

NB-044 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s typeface, but possibly fictional

NB-045 Milk Marketing Board 60s

NB-050 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60s

NB-054 IMS (blue) 30s

NB-056 Co-Op Wholesale (red) 30s

NB-115A Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictional

NB-115B Milk Marketing Board 60s

NB-115C Express (light blue) Uses 60s/70s logo, but possibly fictional

NB-115D IMS (blue) 30s

2F-031-001 United Dairies (white) 30s

2F-031-002 Express (dark blue) 30s

2F-031-003 IMS (red) 30s

2F-031-004 Unigate Creameries (silver) 60s

2F-031-005 Co-Op Milk (white) Unknown, 60s/70s typeface, but possibly fictional

 

Many of the liveries survived long after the original dates shown above. The photo below from Paul Bartlett's site shows a tanker still in rather worn 1930s IMS blue in 1968.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmilk/h3aa0837f#h3aa0837f

 

Very useful list that thanks

Just for perspective the image taken by Mr B is 50 years old this weekend!! ( I noticed that cos my best friend is also that age )

[Oldddudders]

Morden South was indeed the site of the dairy - but St Helier was the controlling signalbox. The line first opened about 1930, so is actually younger than the competing Northern Line. It was the signalman at St Helier who, when asking if a loco could be sent to the dairy to do a shunt, opined that their own little loco, which had broken down, even on a good day couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. Given the milk content in that dish, I always thought it a very apposite comparison.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Oldddudders

[Karhedron]

That looks like White city stadium in the background, so I assume that this is Wood lane depot

It is indeed. The photo is dated 1968 so I am surprised to see all the tankers labelled as United Dairies as the company had merged with Cow and Gate to form Unigate in 1959.

[Hailstone]

It is indeed. The photo is dated 1968 so I am surprised to see all the tankers labelled as United Dairies as the company had merged with Cow and Gate to form Unigate in 1959.

 

I am surprised that there are so many Scammell lorries still in use, but I was a milk boy at Maida vale depot from 1969 to 1972 and the milk floats were still in United dairies livery for quite a while, the Unigate livery started to appear around 1970 - 71 ahh Happy days!!

 

Regards,

 

Alex