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APT-E Factory Drawings


rapidotrains

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Greetings from the MLW factory in China, where the OO gauge APT-E is being designed.  We had a sample set made by CNC to test the tilt and the close coupling system.

 

Result: Tilt looks awesome. Close-coupling system an Epic Fail.  

 

  We've decided to try for a prototypical 3/8" diameter, but I suspect the mould shop will bump that up to 7/16" or 1/2".  In 4mm scale, any of those will look fine, as long as we're consistent... where the real one was!  There are several rivet sizes on this thing!  I blame Kit.

 

Why not? Everyone else blames me for everything, ESPECIALLY their spilt coffee! :no:

 

While the curving pics show the first bit of hardware on this project :no: the overhanging nose of the Power Car does look a bit strange, but the model curves are really tight compared to the real thing. There were some sharp curves we had to traverse in the RTC yard but they didn't cause the nose to swing out more than its entire width. But what else can be done? An HO model of a Mallet steam loco does exactly the same and they never went over curves that sharp in the real world, and modellers still run them, more often in the USA of course.

 

The APT-E used a silica gun Rob, which didn't work very well and we reverted to sand. But the RTC did do some work on a plasma torch to clean the rail head at around the same time. I think we used one of the DMU cars we had as a test vehicle for it on the Mickelover test track.

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Having had a second look at the photos of the mock-up on the curve, and seeing how sharp that level of curve is, I'm 'inclined' :no: to think that the tilt angle ought to be greater on that tightness of curve. It's unlikely that anyone will run the train on any tighter curves than that so that ought define the 'tilt limit'.

 

Or have I got it all round my neck and the geometry of the tilt mechanism is what it is?

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Whatever you do Jason and Mr Tilt, please do not compromise on the model for the sake of No 1 radius curves. A lot of us modellers have compromised on the design of our layouts in order that we can have larger radius curves and a realistic look when scale length vehicles are on said curves. My own minimum visible radius is 3'0" with a minimum radius of hidden track of 2'6".

 

Progress is looking great by the way.  I don't know if I'll make it to Warley, but if I do, I'll be making a bee line from the entrance gate to the Rapido stand.

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Whatever you do Jason and Mr Tilt, please do not compromise on the model for the sake of No 1 radius curves. A lot of us modellers have compromised on the design of our layouts in order that we can have larger radius curves and a realistic look when scale length vehicles are on said curves. My own minimum visible radius is 3'0" with a minimum radius of hidden track of 2'6".

 

Progress is looking great by the way.  I don't know if I'll make it to Warley, but if I do, I'll be making a bee line from the entrance gate to the Rapido stand.

Hi Colin

 

Jason and Bill will be sharing our spot at Warley so look out for the Locomotionmodels stand and you should find them there along with a top notch sample

 

Cheers

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Having had a second look at the photos of the mock-up on the curve, and seeing how sharp that level of curve is, I'm 'inclined' :no: to think that the tilt angle ought to be greater on that tightness of curve. It's unlikely that anyone will run the train on any tighter curves than that so that ought define the 'tilt limit'.

 

Or have I got it all round my neck and the geometry of the tilt mechanism is what it is?

 

Once the factory confirms that the train has no trouble going around a #2 radius curve (should be today or tomorrow) I will have the sample sent here where I can test it myself. The photo is a 24" radius curve, and it is noticeably tilting.  

 

Most importantly, the train is tilting quite nicely on a 30" radius curve in the CAD renderings.  I fear if we increase the tilt it may look rather silly on a lot of layouts that have tight curves.  Tight curves are a reality on UK layouts.  You guys don't have massive basements like we do.  The tightest curve on my layout is 36" radius.  But even in North America most people have much tighter curves.  So if I designed Rapido models just for my layout, most people wouldn't be able to run them.

 

-Jason

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I take the point Jason. It really is a case of 'You can't please all of the people all of the time'.

 

I suppose I'm so used to seeing E-Train tilted over onto its bump stops (Oh no, not ANOTHER servo-valve pilot jet blockage!) that seeing  lesser angles of tilt just don't get through to me any more.  :no:

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I take the point Jason. It really is a case of 'You can't please all of the people all of the time'.

 

 

Hi

If you are you referring to post # 57, no offence was intended - just a request that you don't compromise the APT-E because of small radius curves. Full length vehicles may look odd on a 15" curve, but I don't want shortened vehicles, or boige pivot points in the wrong place just to avoid  a unrealistic overhang on sharp curves that I don't have? To me the tilt, while a nice idea, is secondary to the train "looking right"

Regards

Colin

Ju

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 To me the tilt, while a nice idea, is secondary to the train "looking right"

 

 

The APT-E wouldn't "look right" if it wasn't tilted.................           :jester:

 

Cheers,

Mick

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Hi

If you are you referring to post # 57, no offence was intended - just a request that you don't compromise the APT-E because of small radius curves. Full length vehicles may look odd on a 15" curve, but I don't want shortened vehicles, or boige pivot points in the wrong place just to avoid  a unrealistic overhang on sharp curves that I don't have? To me the tilt, while a nice idea, is secondary to the train "looking right"

Regards

Colin

 

No offence taken Colin, no problem.

 

In any case I'm only in an advisory capacity for Jason and Co.'s amazing engineering talents. Jason asked Paul Leadley and I if we'd help out on getting the model accurate, which we were very pleased, and indeed honoured, to do. I'm with you on an accurate shape being vital, and thanks to good research and the amazing 3D scan business the model will be very accurate, even to to bits that you don't normally see on the underside of the vehicles, a trademark of all Rapido models.

 

As the E-Train has never been in a position to be seen from below, at least in public, people may think that's not vital, but it goes to show the lengths that Jason's crew go to in order to get things right. You'd all be laughing like drains if you'd seen some of the email attachments that Paul has been sending across the Atlantic in recent days. :no:

 

I think that any marketable model of E-Train would HAVE to tilt in one way or another as so many people know it as 'The Titling Train' rather than by its proper name. I doubt the Hornby P-Train would have sold in anywhere near as many numbers as it did if it hadn't tilted. I've seen a few privately built E-Train models in 4mm and all of them have attempted to tilt to a greater or lesser extent, but I've never seen an N gauge model that tilted! Having built some parts of an N Gauge E-Train myself I'd venture to suggest that it's not really a practicable proposition in the smaller scale, but it's folly to predict potential advances in engineering.... :nono:

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I think that any marketable model of E-Train would HAVE to tilt in one way or another as so many people know it as 'The Titling Train' rather than by its proper name. I doubt the Hornby P-Train would have sold in anywhere near as many numbers as it did if it hadn't tilted. I've seen a few privately built E-Train models in 4mm and all of them have attempted to tilt to a greater or lesser extent, but I've never seen an N gauge model that tilted! Having built some parts of an N Gauge E-Train myself I'd venture to suggest that it's not really a practicable proposition in the smaller scale, but it's folly to predict potential advances in engineering.... :nono:

I think we could pull off a tilt in N gauge. Actually it would be easier than in OO....

 

Kit and Paul have been essential to getting this model correct. It's going to be amazing.

 

-Jason

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  • 2 weeks later...

Most weeks there's a bunch of emails going back and forth across the Atlantic as Jason and Bill refine the CAD model and they send the files across for Paul and I to check and comment. In a remarkably short time the drawings gave gone from a 'schematic' to a finely detailed version of the real thing but shrunk a bit.

 

I'm very familiar with the shape of the real bogies of course, but as they weigh tons and tons I could only look at them from one view at  a time. I found it amazing that I could swivel the things around with the graphics software and see this very familiar shape from all directions, seemingly holding it in my hand! :imsohappy:

 

We've just seen the very latest drawings prior to them starting work on cutting the moulds in China and I was SO impressed with the whole thing that I sent this email to Jason and Co. :-

 

'Going through the vehicle dawings and hiding the bits part by part so I could view the vehicle ends made me realise just how many ZILLIONS of parts there are in this model! Almost as many as the real thing! Emoji_1F632.png

The ends look great, and as accurate as is possible while still retaining the capability to have the cables running through the joint modules. And the TC2 details, like the VIP compartment partition AND the sandwich Emoji_1F60A.pnglook perfect to me. The HK brake hose goes to exactly the right place too, and I'm sure that the end fittings are threaded 3 " BSP just like the real thing....... Emoji_1F603.png

It has the most amazing 'feel' to it looking around and through the virtual model, I'm totally amazed and very impressed.'

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Hi all,

 

It's about time we shared some more drawings. All of the designs should be finished by tomorrow and we start cutting the tooling this week.

 

I'll be sending out a newsletter in the next few days to our UK subscribers with more info. You can sign up here:

 

http://www.rapidotrains.com/signup

 

Any and all constructive feedback is appreciated!
 

Thanks and regards,

 

Jason

 

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post-20909-0-80635200-1410732697_thumb.jpg

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Hi all,

 

It's about time we shared some more drawings. All of the designs should be finished by tomorrow and we start cutting the tooling this week.

 

I'll be sending out a newsletter in the next few days to our UK subscribers with more info. You can sign up here:

 

http://www.rapidotrains.com/signup

 

Any and all constructive feedback is appreciated!

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Jason

 

attachicon.gifAPT_E_1.jpg

 

attachicon.gifAPT_E_2.jpg

 

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attachicon.gifAPT_E_4.jpg

 

attachicon.gifAPT_E_5.jpg

 

attachicon.gifAPT_E_6.jpg

 

attachicon.gifAPT_E_7.jpg

Looks fantastic, just where's the sandwich holding the door open? ;)

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Hi Jason,

 

Are you still planning to accommodate drop-in replacement wheel sets for EM and P4?

 

The reason I ask is that there doesn't seem to be much space between the bogie side frames on shot 6, but it's probably just the angle of the render. Maybe you could post a rendering from head-on or below?

 

CAD looking good. I've just put my order in!

 

Guy

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Looks really great, my only comment comes from being an end user. Which may be summed up as "How do I get her apart?"

 

On most 00 gauge diesels, I can slide bits of plasti card between the body clips and the chassis and lift the body off with damaging the loco (although some can be very tight in my experience). 

 

Here the APT-E upper body clips onto the lower body and is held into place by 6 clips and the outer sides are flush with each other. Clearly it could not be moulded any other way but.... to remove the upper body, I cannot insert plasti card as the upper body sides  will need to be pulled out by a mm or two. If I tried to prise the upper and lower hulls apart first with a screw driver, we would almost certainly damage the body.

 

On a positive note, the fact that the sides are not perpendiculer with the roof, might mean that a little force will pull the body top away. If so, I hope the 6 lugs on the upper body will be designed soft enough to allow that to be an easy operation and are not a brittle design that snaps with the first effort.

 

I am still suffering from trauma from when lima putting clips on the cab ends of their class 59, which ensured they snapped as soon as you tried to remove the body.

 

My point is I don't want to become the incredible hulk trying to remove the upper body, the thing snapping in two or lugs breaking away....

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Thank you Jason for posting the images they are most excellent.

 

Can I ask will a set of Crew figures be available as a purchasable extra item or is there a plan to include, as you have gone to the trouble to give us such a nice lit interior?

 

May be a scale Mr Tilt at his post?

 

Pete

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Hi Jason,

 

Are you still planning to accommodate drop-in replacement wheel sets for EM and P4?

 

The reason I ask is that there doesn't seem to be much space between the bogie side frames on shot 6, but it's probably just the angle of the render. Maybe you could post a rendering from head-on or below?

 

CAD looking good. I've just put my order in!

 

Guy

 

Hi Guy,

 

Good question!

 

See the attached image, which is from a few weeks ago (so the bogie design is much simpler than the final version).  The bogies have been designed for OO, EM or 4mm/P4 wheelsets.

 

I am sure someone in the UK will design drop-in EM and P4 wheelsets before too long, and when we start production we will be happy to share wheelset dimensions with any UK after-market producer that wishes to make them.  We'll also be sure to include extra "Swiss Cheese" circles in the box so the wheelset supplier does not need to make them again.

 

-Jason

 

post-20909-0-94594400-1410796237_thumb.jpg

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