Miss Prism Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I've copied CK's method of putting a small piece of brass between the sleeper and the railhead to raise it up enough to fit a cosmetic chair more easily. Is there a forum reference for this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted August 22, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Is there a forum reference for this? I think it was on Tim's old workbench thread, I just remember seeing it from years ago. But myself and John (Re6/6) have discussed this method over the last couple of months for the Bodmin rebuilt work. I'll see if I can find it. Edit - Found it! Here is the link - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=81&start=125 Edited August 22, 2014 by Brinkly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I can't claim any personal experience of building pointwork (that on my Delph/Holt layout being built for me by Tony Wilkins) but I would have thought that the prototype wouldn't have gone to the trouble and expense of fitting check rails if they didn't perform a critical role in the safe passage of wheels through the crossing gap. Perhaps in model form they don't have quite the same effectiveness due to scaling/vehicle mass effects? Also, check rail gaps and the back-to-back dimension were compromised in the P4 standards, so perhaps again, this has affected the effectiveness of the check rails, especially if the back-to-back dimension is at the top end of the tolerance range? I deliberately set the wheels on my stock a bit loose to gauge to reduce side play and then discovered that my gauge was on maximum tolearance already! This has helped when my locos ran on Ray hammond's S4 standard track, where the flange-ways are exact scale and significantly narrower than P4, but has caused the ocaisional bump on crossing noses on P4 track. Anyway, whatever the theory, the main thing is to end up with reliable track and running and no-one appears to be recommending leaving the check rails off completely, as far as I can see. Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think it was on Tim's old workbench thread, I just remember seeing it from years ago. But myself and John (Re6/6) have discussed this method over the last couple of months for the Bodmin rebuilt work. I'll see if I can find it. Edit - Found it! Here is the link - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=81&start=125 From which: In another world a long time ago I once did something very similar using single-side Vero pins to lift the rails. It was much quicker to do than the above looks to be. Use a softish workboard material under the template. Drill 1mm hole with minidrill, through copper-clad and into board, abrade off any burrs, and push in pin. They have ribs under the head and are a firm push fit. No need to solder them separately -- solder all in one go when you are soldering the rail. Prise the finished the turnout from the workboard and trim off flush the protruding pins from the underside. You could leave a few for invisible electrical connections. Make sure when laying that nothing can short the underside of the pins (as you would also with Brook-Smith rivets). We are talking 40 years ago, and much to my surprise the Vero pins are still available, and not desperately expensive: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/terminal-posts/6319596/ Here's the manufacturers drawing of the pin: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0e57/0900766b80e578ba.pdf Templot can produce a drilling template of rail-centre lines over timber centre-lines (generator > generator settings > rails > rail head centre-lines only). Print on tracing paper and lay over the copper-clad timbers: regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2014 Interesting point re using the pins, Martin, and thanks for links and confirmation that they are still available. However, in defence of my own method, the drilling of lots of holes would personally put me off, plus the above crossover was built on the workbench, as one of the photos on the old forum showed, I think, which for me was a distinct advantage in terms of personal comfort... Perhaps the most tedious bit was cutting out all the little pieces of shim, and I didn't take that much care to ensure that they were all the same shape, but in the end the point went together fine (and is still in storage waiting for the day it's needed!). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Nick An interesting project and I wondered why Maurice was building baseboard after baseboard on his thread; now I know............. How are you going to deal with the bridge? As you say it is really quite unusual and given that it has an open deck on the running line position that is not in use you are not going to be able to fudge it! How are you with drawing or CAD packages? It is a gift for rows and rows of rivets and then you can pop it up PPD for etching. It is neither particularly difficult or expensive as long as you can perceive things in 3D in your mind. The other option is to get the GW Models rivet press but you might loose your marbles doing the number of rivets that I suspect you will have too! I would give you the nudge that you really ought to be leaving the trackbed cut out over the bridge and then inserting the bridge into the gap, like the real thing. It will be the only way that you can make it look real I feel. A recommendation I would make for baseboard joints on trackwork is to use the Exactoscale etched cast brass chairs. They are not cheap but they are much stronger than even the soldered joint you would get with the copper clad/spacer that you are using here? Sorry, edited - they are cast chairs not etched. Edited August 22, 2014 by Portchullin Tatty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Love this thread about Horrabridge but after reading the above, I'm glad I switched back to tinplate trains!! Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted August 23, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2014 Nick An interesting project and I wondered why Maurice was building baseboard after baseboard on his thread; now I know............. How are you going to deal with the bridge? As you say it is really quite unusual and given that it has an open deck on the running line position that is not in use you are not going to be able to fudge it! How are you with drawing or CAD packages? It is a gift for rows and rows of rivets and then you can pop it up PPD for etching. It is neither particularly difficult or expensive as long as you can perceive things in 3D in your mind. The other option is to get the GW Models rivet press but you might loose your marbles doing the number of rivets that I suspect you will have too! I would give you the nudge that you really ought to be leaving the trackbed cut out over the bridge and then inserting the bridge into the gap, like the real thing. It will be the only way that you can make it look real I feel. A recommendation I would make for baseboard joints on trackwork is to use the Exactoscale etched cast brass chairs. They are not cheap but they are much stronger than even the soldered joint you would get with the copper clad/spacer that you are using here? Sorry, edited - they are cast chairs not etched. Hi Mark, Thanks for your advice and interest. I thought about using brass chairs, then forgot about them - thank you for the reminder! An order has been duly placed with C&L. With regard to the bridge, I did think about building it from brass, then sort of stopped as it seemed quite complicated! I think your ideas are worth considering and will send you a PM, as you clearly seem to have a greater understanding of this than me! Kind regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How is it going Nick? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2014 Regarding the importance of check rails. Yes a single vehicle on its own will often run through with no problem without check rails however moving a vehicle by hand and putting a little side pressure on you can feel contact at the nose without the check rails. I often push a short string of wagons through a turnout pushing from the rear to test it. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted October 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 How is it going Nick? Greetings followers, No progress has been made to date with regard to the layout, as job and other things have got in the way. Having said that I have made time to work on some wagons over on my layout thread and with the October half term starting on Friday at 3:16pm work on the layout should resume in some form next week! Kind regards, Nick. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm glad I retired from the profession some few years ago now so I don't have to wait for half terms etc, but just the muse and mojo to coincide. I will continue to follow with interest. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hi Nick, just wondered how Horrabridge is getting on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hi Nick, just wondered how Horrabridge is getting on? Alan I'm so sorry I have only just come across your post. Sorry I would have replied sooner. As it stands not a huge amount has taken place since last summer. Back in September I moved up to Kent to work for a year and really getting the layout up and working on it has not been practical due to my ‘two home status!’ (I have been plodding on with stock, which you can see on my workbench thread.) However, the last day of term is Friday 24th July and my intension is to crack on with the track work from Monday 27th July onwards. What I have done in the meantime is to make sure that I have all of the required track components to hand, which will speed up construction. I’m also going to build the track off the boards more than I did last year, as this should speed up construction and will mean that I won’t have to put the layout up in the front room for as long again. Currently this is the only real space I can use. My goal is to lay the track for the four main boards over the summer, which should be achievable, with wiring of the track and point motors taking place over the October half term. I have a bit of a deadline to work to. Unfortunately one of our members won’t be attending our DRAG demo area at Scaleforum this year, so I have been asked if I could bring a board to the show. If there is space I would like to bring the two main boards (level crossing down to the coal yard) to Scaleforum, however there might not be space, so I could be limited to just one. Next year Horrabridge may be going to one of the local Devon shows as a ‘work-in-progress’, so if this is the case I really would like to be able to operate the layout properly, with full train movements. Granted scenery will be sparse, but hopefully it will provide a bit of inspiration to the punters! So come back in a month and hopefully something should have happened! Kind regards, Nick 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted June 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2015 I have a bit of a deadline to work to. Unfortunately one of our members won’t be attending our DRAG demo area at Scaleforum this year, so I have been asked if I could bring a board to the show. If there is space I would like to bring the two main boards (level crossing down to the coal yard) to Scaleforum, however there might not be space, so I could be limited to just one. Next year Horrabridge may be going to one of the local Devon shows as a ‘work-in-progress’, so if this is the case I really would like to be able to operate the layout properly, with full train movements. Granted scenery will be sparse, but hopefully it will provide a bit of inspiration to the punters! So come back in a month and hopefully something should have happened! Kind regards, Nick Will look forward to seeing it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2015 Will look forward to seeing it! Thank you Rich. If nothing else you can see some fine carpentry by Maurice Hopper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I am pleased that progress is/will be made over the summer, Nick. When you have made some , progress and track that is, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would welcome some photos. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Nick, I've been waiting for an alert from the 'content I follow' system and I'm delighted that you plan to kick-start the thread back in to life next month. Really looking forward to it. Good luck and I hope your plans fall in to place without any drama, Kind regards, Jock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2015 Alan I'm so sorry I have only just come across your post. Sorry I would have replied sooner. As it stands not a huge amount has taken place since last summer. Back in September I moved up to Kent to work for a year and really getting the layout up and working on it has not been practical due to my ‘two home status!’ (I have been plodding on with stock, which you can see on my workbench thread.) However, the last day of term is Friday 24th July and my intension is to crack on with the track work from Monday 27th July onwards. What I have done in the meantime is to make sure that I have all of the required track components to hand, which will speed up construction. I’m also going to build the track off the boards more than I did last year, as this should speed up construction and will mean that I won’t have to put the layout up in the front room for as long again. Currently this is the only real space I can use. My goal is to lay the track for the four main boards over the summer, which should be achievable, with wiring of the track and point motors taking place over the October half term. I have a bit of a deadline to work to. Unfortunately one of our members won’t be attending our DRAG demo area at Scaleforum this year, so I have been asked if I could bring a board to the show. If there is space I would like to bring the two main boards (level crossing down to the coal yard) to Scaleforum, however there might not be space, so I could be limited to just one. Next year Horrabridge may be going to one of the local Devon shows as a ‘work-in-progress’, so if this is the case I really would like to be able to operate the layout properly, with full train movements. Granted scenery will be sparse, but hopefully it will provide a bit of inspiration to the punters! So come back in a month and hopefully something should have happened! Kind regards, Nick S*d Devon shows - one in Zummerset might be just the place for it next April (er, HINT) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 30, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2015 S*d Devon shows - one in Zummerset might be just the place for it next April (er, HINT) Well I haven't had that chat with the good captain yet! But I will ask him. Regards, Nick 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Brinkly Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2015 Schools out for summer! Greetings chaps, As promised the first update for the summer, showing progression to date. In a post further up the page, I said that part of Horrabridge would be making an appearance at Scaleforum in September. On Monday evening an additional booking has also been pencilled in for the Exeter model railway show next May. Ekk!! My plan is to have the layout operating by that point, although no signals or scenery will be completed. The appearance at Scaleforum is only really to show off what we do as an area group, so it will appear as a static display, where the boards can be turned over to look at. It will also be an opportunity for me to tap into other modeller's ideas and hopefully spark someone to build a layout! Horrabridge was never really planned to be an exhibition layout, however the middle boards were designed to be part of an alternative set-up. So a quick begging email to Mr Hopper was sent and he very kindly agreed to build two new boards to straighten the layout up. This new set up has done away with the reverse curve (which will still feature on the home version) and has made the model look closer to the prototype - a stretched C shape. The footprint for the layout will now be 28ft including two 5ft turn table fiddle yards. Behind the station additional foam boards will be attached, to enable the hillside to be modelled in greater depth, although this is a long way off for the time being! Great care has been taken to ensure that the two middle boards fit into both schemes and I have to thank Maurice once again for all his hard work. Having boards built to such a high standard is wonderful and a huge time saver. Maurice and I spent part of Saturday and Monday completing the two new boards, only problem was getting it all into the car! BMW 3 Series saloon, with non-folding rear seats! It all fitted, just! Anyway I've attached a couple of photos showing Maurice's adaption of Iain's plan, the bridge board under construction and the complete set up on Maurice's drive. No reverse curve needed, so ignore that! The topography has changed slightly, with the bridge entering into a very shallow cutting to mask train movements. Straight and slightly shorter than the home version. Inside Maurice's workshop. Paper plan beneath the plywood. All done and ready to go by 5:27pm! (DRAG at 7:00pm) Anyway today was the first opportunity to put the new version up at home, make some notes and do a bit of fiddling about. First job was to put some lining paper down and mark the current track bed in. This will be used for tweaking and testing of the track off the boards. Testing the down Lie-by siding. This siding should be able to hold a 12-15 wagon train with a 43xx loco and a brake van. Further moving of pointwork might shorten the siding from 15 down to 14 wagons, but still a very respectable length. The brake van represents the end of the up siding. The 43xx might well come closer towards the end of the board, although I'd rather not have the buffer stops in the back scene! Looking towards Tavistock - the small really useful box represents the signal box and the 55xx in the platform represents the longest trains that could cross - the rear coach sitting on the goodshed point as per the prototype. So the next job will be to take the plastic track up, as I wasn't ever fully happy with it. Sand and fit the cork on the two new boards and then start laying track. I've decided to go for plywood sleepers with Exactoscale chairs. Nickel silver rail will remain. Since June (when the Exeter show became a possibility) I have been planning a simple operating sequence, to focus stock construction. I will write a separate post on that later. Anyway thanks for reading. Any thoughts/comments please do say. Kind regards, Nick. 22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You're too young to remember "Schools Out" Wow, suddenly changes the look of the layout. Coming to Railwells? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 You're too young to remember "Schools Out" Wow, suddenly changes the look of the layout. Coming to Railwells? Home version stays the same - this is just for Exhibitions. So I'm doing my bit for the society! And yes to Wells on the Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Looks good. Nice to see you checking out the train capacities, to often people do not check. I agree with you regarding the use of wood timber I tend to use ply although Walnut has been recommended. I have used this for staining 0 gauge ply timbers I never minded drilling out the wholes for rivets it was the prospect of all the cosmetic chairs that was daunting. I soon opted for the plastic sleepers I still have a turnout kit from Alan Gibson who marketed them first. It was not used as I changed scale. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) an additional booking has also been pencilled in for the Exeter model railway show next May. May? Next years Exeter Show is a month later than usual; on the 2nd & 3rd of JULY, due to the venue not being available. See here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99127-exeter-2015/page-2 Layouts looking great though! Cheers, Dave. Edited July 29, 2015 by DLT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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