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Mark Saunders

Stewarts & Lloyds 30t IU & 20t Mainline Tippler

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Yes, I agree that the reason for the raised ends is probably related to the tippler mechanisms.

 

Most tippler mechanisms involved a counterweighed beam rotating over and 'clamping' down on the wagon ends thereby holding the wagon firmly on the rails. There is some leeway but I would imagine that, once set, this works best for wagons between a certain range of heights.

 

This illustration of a Mitchell Engineering tippler makes it clear;

 

post-6861-0-43982800-1428140229_thumb.jpg

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And in the photo of the derailment, the 31T wagons are without end beams - to make their height the same as the 20T wagon in the foreground maybe? I can't find any photos of the bigger wagons in use with the end beams fitted.

 

Mark, I for one am keep to learn more about these S&L wagons, so do feel free to share any more info you might have please!

 

Tony

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Arthur,

 

Yes, I agree that the raised ends are to facilitate their use in the tippler, with the lower over-all body height of the 20 ton examples to reduce over-loading

 

The video below shows the mechanism of a tippler slightly better than a diagram, and shows that the "sustaining beam" in the diagram above is not at a fixed height above the wagon, and one suspects that they are designed to accept a level of variability in wagon height, as you say.

 

 

There are no examples of any of the Corby wagons surviving, unfortunately. 

 

I would suggest that there were 3 examples in internal use at Corby: 20, 30 and 31 ton examples. I have some evidence to suggest that there were rebuilt versions of the larger wagons in circulation also. I have seen preserved plans of a rebuilt 31 ton example, but I didn't take a copy as I'm almost certain that it was a "might have been" and none were ever turned out in this guise - it also confusingly references the Scunthorpe CEW....

 

Paul A. 

Edited by 1whitemoor
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Her's a pic showing alternative location of ladder:

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

It's almost likes the shortened one is cut and shut from an accident? Except it appears riveted, and the slopped base of the hopper has been squared off? Bit of an odd ball?

 

seems to be 6 vs 7 stanchions, tie bars and different ladder now that I look the difference between 20t vs 30t. Totally agree Osgood and Mark.

 

Might be the angle but the latter image you post make looks a lot smaller than the 30t version. It looks like the 20t =10ft WB and the 30/31=12ft. But that could be to do with stanchion spacing? The heights look the same (overall body, not including the raised ends)? Interesting point Osgood about the end height. I'd noted that image before, but not made the connection with a tipplers.

Edited by Down_Under

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Apologies if confusing matters, but what I see is;

 

Post 1; 7 stanchion raised ends,tie bars, 30t marking.

 

Post 4; derailment, mix of 6 and 7 stanchion wagons

 

Post 17; 7 stanchion, tie bars, no raised ends, presume 30t?

 

Post 22; 6 stanchions. No tie bars. Raised ends. 20t?

 

Post 25; 6 stanchions, tie bars , raised ends 20t.

 

Happy to correct where wrong.

Edited by Down_Under

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Sadly my informed authority on all things S&L Minerals passed away a few months back so I'm reliant on my memory of his answers to my questions over many years. IIRC, from construction of the original ore handling plant in the 1930s, the original tippler arrangement was an end on type which might explain something of the raised ends, but taking the previous posts into account, I'm not sure what.

 

Work carried out in WWII to increase capacity might have added additional tipplers. Certainly by the 1970s there were side tipplers in use but these might have been added when the project to build the new Sinter Plants and rebuild No 3 blast furnace was underway in 1972-3

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Mark... Out of interest, now that the range of the prototype have broadened and some of the details have started to emerge is there a plan to model them? If so, what type of construction are you thinking?

 

Andy

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Mark... Out of interest, now that the range of the prototype have broadened and some of the details have started to emerge is there a plan to model them? If so, what type of construction are you thinking?

 

Andy

 

Andy

 

My initial thoughts on building models of them (4mm) was to scratch build the body using evergreen section and a cut n shut Parkside LNER chasis to get the 10' 6" wheelbase and 17' over headstocks, for the 20 ton ones and for a 30 ton the same with just adding heavier springs!

 

The body may have to be built like a Parkside hopper; upside down to stay square but at least the end stanchions will mean it is able to sit square on the chassis!

 

Alas they are well at the back of the queue as other projects have been started and not finished!

 

The rivets not sure yet?

 

Mark

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Looks like these Irlam tipples were used on the main line.  I wonder if the S&L were only ever intended for private line use, and - if so - whether there were any differences between the two?

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Looks like these Irlam tipples were used on the main line.  I wonder if the S&L were only ever intended for private line use, and - if so - whether there were any differences between the two?

 

The Corby 20 ton ones were main line registered, in 1973 BSC purchased a number of ex BR tipplers to relace them but BR could not provide enough so 40 remained in use!

 

This was in addition to the 35 that were purchased new in 1966 to a similar design to the BR ones!

 

Mark Saunders

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Looks like these Irlam tipples were used on the main line. 

 

Irlam was about 125 miles from the Northants ore fields so these wagons did round trips of around 250 miles.  Much of the works ore was imported via its own wharf on the Manchester Ship Canal.

Edited by Arthur

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Lancs steel also used their own 27t tipplers based on the BR design for this trip. I don't know if steel production had finished at Irlam and they were being used by Corby but they were frequently to be seen in the two sidings adjacent to the head shunts at the South end of Lloyds Sidings, Corby in the mid-70s.

 

Co-incidentally Hornby have just produced a model of one of these in Lancs Steel colours.

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Iron making ceased at Irlam in 1971, so ending the need for ore, with steelmaking finishing in 1974.

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There is one of the Corby 27 ton design preserved

 

 

http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9523 

 

Ignore the info on the vintage carriage trust website about it being re-bodied - it's plain to see that the chassis is not from a 16 ton slope sided mineral!

 

Paul A.

 

The one at Cottesmore is one of the ex BR wagons that was refurbished by WH Davis in 1973 for BSC!

 

Mark

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Well, this has turned into a interesting thread! Awesome information Everyone!

 

On a construction front, the 20t version had a 10ft 6" wheelbase, 17ft over head stocks, and what appears to be a 10" sole bar?

 

The 30t/31t varients appears to be the same wheelbase, but slightly deeper body? Or was the wheelbase stretched ( and going from 6 to 7 stanchions on the side) and the body height kept the same?

 

James

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Well, this has turned into a interesting thread! Awesome information Everyone!

 

On a construction front, the 20t version had a 10ft 6" wheelbase, 17ft over head stocks, and what appears to be a 10" sole bar?

 

The 30t/31t varients appears to be the same wheelbase, but slightly deeper body? Or was the wheelbase stretched ( and going from 6 to 7 stanchions on the side) and the body height kept the same?

 

James

 

Just on a quick count of Rivets on the end it appears that there are 13 on the 30 ton and 9 on the 20 ton so I would put them as lower as photo's next to locomotives seem t bear this out!

 

It would be nice to have the build details for the 30t ones as at least the mainline registered ones are available in surviving  PO registers at either Kew or York for the 20ton ones!

 

S&L 5725 in the official is in the Chas Roberts pictures but does not have a CR plate!

 

Mark Saunders

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There is a drawing of the 20 ton version in "Turton" vol vii on page 116 of these and it shows clearly the inward slope! Shame it is 1/4'" to a foot but it shows the same drawing was used for both S&L and Lancashire Steel.

 

However it also perpetuates the myth the 16 ton Chas Roberts wagons were for ore rather than Coal but it gives the build details for the 20 ton ore tipplers!

 

Numbered from 5601 to 5850 giving 250.

 

Mark Saunders

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Thanks for that Mark, copy duly ordered which might spur me on a little....

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There is a drawing of the 20 ton version in "Turton" vol vii on page 116 of these and it shows clearly the inward slope! Shame it is 1/4'" to a foot but it shows the same drawing was used for both S&L and Lancashire Steel.

However it also perpetuates the myth the 16 ton Chas Roberts wagons were for ore rather than Coal but it gives the build details for the 20 ton ore tipplers!

Numbered from 5601 to 5850 giving 250.

Mark Saunders

Looks like I'll be ordering one of those. Thanks for the info Mark. I note some of the wagons have a double row of rivets along the body side, while others have a single row, adjacent to the change in angle of the sides.

 

Out of interest, the 13t coal hopper (1/142 + 1/144) and occasionally seen in iron ore traffic, 22/24t iron hopper (1/161 + 1/162) and 20/30t IU S&L + Lanc. Steel all have 10f 6" wheelbases, 10" solebars,17ft over head stocks. With the BR wagons appear to be derived from Chas Robert designs, and the latter is a Chas Robert design. Coincidence, or same chassis? I have an unbuilt Dave Bradwell 13t I'll check against the drawings tomorrow....

Edited by Down_Under

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