RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2014 Should we/could we target the Japanese audience in some way with this? Links into their modelling press or anything? Obviously using the royal 'we' there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 LOL the very royal "we" That is up to Ben, Mike and Dave to decide, I would say long term why not to if anything fund other projects but it would be safer to just target the local (UK) audience at this time mainly, although there are guys from all over the world on here especially the US so that will in itself giver a wider awareness of the project Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2014 There's a postage issue with foreign backers, but a) you can't stop them backing anyway and b ) you often get a footnote saying "plus postage for foreign backers" on KS campaigns. As you say, one for Mike/Ben, but not sure I see a downside. I'm mildly like an excited puppy at this whole prospect, sorry, I'll try and rein myself in! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ha don't worry your not the only one! I need to get back to work and do something useful (well work useful) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2014 I wouldn't know where to start to publish it to a Japanese audience, though I would see no harm (at all) in doing so! Managing the postage for foreign purchasers is OK with Kickstarter. Cheers, Mike PS acko - you may or may not know that the CJM Eurostar is just the Kato one re-painted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Well I do now! 1000 for a repaint!! Cheaper to repaint the real thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Would anyone consider a lower detailed one similar to the Hornby offering? I know it's not what many of the serious modellers want and probably not want Dave wants to produce either, but I think that it would add an ability to market it to kids, thus getting more orders from retailers and making it more likely that it will be produced? Just a thousand orders at £250 a pop seems like a lot (as already mentioned) Just my thoughts on it anyway, and I hope you get the model one way or another N gauge modellers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 For those who want a 9 car Pendolino, I think £250 a pop is remarkable value. Dave has already quoted for a model with a decent spec (everything bar tilt) and in my opinion to try include within the project separate tooling for a lower spec model will only serve to fragment the potential market while increasing costs. If anything I would have thought the option of a shorter set to the same spec more desirable than that, but can also see why even this could compromising the 9 car set, and therefore not be considered. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I am in the same mind as Roy, Plus a limitation of n gauge is it's not a very child friendly layout well less so than OO gauge so making less detailed wouldn't really serve to make it child friendly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumpkin Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 How come it won't have the tilting mechanism? It's been achieved in N gauge before by the likes of Fleischmann in its ICE-T and by Kato in numerous EMUs. These all look fairly decent when traversing curves. After all, the tilting mechanism is what stands the Pendolino out in the UK rail network. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2014 Dave is investigating the possibility of adding a tilt mechanism, but is it a deal-breaker for people? There are all sorts of things that could be done (tilt, interior lights etc etc), but everything adds to the cost. I imagine for most people the key things are to get an accurate, well running set with a DCC socket and working head/tail lights. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Surely given the relatively small degree of tilt on a Pendolino it isn't really worth the extra expense of doing it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 How come it won't have the tilting mechanism? It's been achieved in N gauge before by the likes of Fleischmann in its ICE-T and by Kato in numerous EMUs. These all look fairly decent when traversing curves. After all, the tilting mechanism is what stands the Pendolino out in the UK rail network. Sadly, I don't have £250 to commit as it is, even though I appreciate that's good value. Adding a reliable tilt mech in N would only increase the price (probably?). For the effect of tilt, superelevate your tighter curves with small plastic shims. Even N gauge set track (Kato and Tomix) include realistic banked curves in their respective ranges. I appreciate that if you already have a layout you plan to run the Pendolino on, you won't want to butcher your track, but I think we should concentrate on getting the thing into production. The funding itself may even be a "bridge too far". Adding production complications isn't going to help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 talk about a can of worms. everybody will have their own idea of whether to have tilt or interior lights. tilt less so but interior lighting on a 9 coach set......what will that add to the cost? i think given the space constraints interior lighting is just going to kill this project dead. if taking track power will every axle have pick ups or through wiring from one car?? one could argue that tilt would be a nice addition as layout curves are much tighter than the real tracks out there ..... great following the twists and turns of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hello all, The specification of this model has yet to be completely finalised, so any input of would-be backers here gratefully received. The model will definitely have working directional lights and DCC sockets, and almost certainly the motor will be in one of the power cars, so only two DCC chips are required. Provided the trailer vehicles are sufficiently weighted this should not cause derailing issues; it is the system used in the Kato Eurostar and this works operates well in either direction up to 16 cars in my experience. My own feeling with tilt is that the real thing does, the. Hornby one does, so a decent spec n gauge model should too. The Fleischmann ICE in n tilts and looks great as it rolls gently into curves. If tilt is designed in to the mouldings (usually done via ramps on the bogie) then I don't see it adding significantly to the cost, if at all. The Kato Eurostar is a model with a personal resonance for me: in 1994 I was lucky to travel in a press trip to Paris when working in radio and a short whole later I saw the model in a hobby shop near where I worked at the time. The quality was so good that I decided to buy it and take up n gauge; and here I am! Incidentally, I paid £180 for the eight car base set in 1994 - the equivalent of about £320 today.... In terms of the Japanese market, we can try our best to publicise this far and wide though it's hard to know what the best method for raising awareness is in Japan. Anyone here know? Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 with all thats been said on the rapido thread before the apt-e was announced how about going the same way and produce the best pendolino possible with every bell whistle and bit of detail? folk aplenty were saying on there that price isnt an issue for the most highly detailed well equipped model......maybe those same thoughts apply here. maybe not but im sure i could find a good crossover of folk on here that said those exact words on the rapido thread...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 heres an idea re; lighting. fit bogies with the pick ups and wired through to a socket like Dapol did with their Mk3 coaches. then make available a light bar for retro fitting by those modellers that want full interior lighting??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2014 Thing is the real Pendos have such a strong window tint from the outside you can barely see the interior lighting at all. I really wouldn't see that as a plus, wouldn't want to pay extra for it certainly. Light bar compatible would be a better option, but must add significant complexity? Tilt would be nice if well executed, but quite honestly I'd not be fussed either way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Got to admit, if it was an all singing all dancing then brill, as ben said the tilt may not be such an issue, it all just comes down to price. People have already said to much in one go so they cant, if I was honest if to add some things such as tilt, and internal lighting that may not add much cost as individual things but can soon add up! I am sure Ben, Mike and Dave will look at the issues and decide what they feel is best in their experience, its just got to be a compromise I would rather have better quality across the board than coach lights per se Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The complexity of lighting (or even being wired "ready" for it) and tilt will must surely add significant cost both in terms of tooling and complexity of assembly. Bells and whistles is a fine aspiration, but this is not a 00 model targeting a market more than three times as big, it is an N Gauge model that needs to achieve "backers" for a 1000 units to succeed. Why then over complicate it, adding further cost, complexity and potentially delay when part of the attractiveness of what is currently being discussed is the price point of £250 for a thoroughly up to date well equipped model which will hopefully work and work well? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Attracting the Japanese market? I am informed that when Kato launched their Model of the Swiss RhB Glacier express which is designed to run on 9mm ( N Gauge trackwork) but as the prototype is Metre Gauge the scale has been errr "adjusted" a little! The item is also designed to run on very tight curves, anyway all this is besdie the point, the thing is apparently the Glacier express attracts many japanese tourists, as we are all aware N gauge is very big in japan, so the rate of sale of the RhB set has exceeded all expectations in japan. I am sure that there are quite a few visitors to Britain from Japan who may just use Pendolinos. All that has to be established is a method of publicising the proposed N gauge model, perhaps some sort of flyer in Travel |Documentation/Itineries? I have been involved in Marketing for many years but the scope did not cover selling models so over to whoever may be able to add more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Anyone wishing to look at the Kato N Gauge SWISS items goto www.traintrax.co.uk click on European section on the left panel £140 for a high quality loco + 6 passenger cars not bad I am very tempted myself!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Personally I partly agree with njee20. As the glazing is so dark I wouldn't worry about having it pre-lit. Personally I wouldn't want the sockets in, as I affects the controller method on the layout as the power is cut after the loco has passed a track break. if a coach has wires in like the Dapol mk3 it puts power in to the isolated section pushing the loco in to the next one. But to be honest, I would quite happily strip the coach down and snip the wires out as I did with my mk3's. I'm going to completely sit on the fence with regards the tilting if it's on great, if it's not on I'm going to buy it anyway! As long as it doesn't add too much to the cost I'm ok with it. Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'd be worried about reducing margins with things like lights - frankly I'd sooner more people made a bit of money on this, increasing the viability of the project as a whole, rather than focusing on adding every single feature ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumpkin Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hello all, My own feeling with tilt is that the real thing does, the. Hornby one does, so a decent spec n gauge model should too. The Fleischmann ICE in n tilts and looks great as it rolls gently into curves. If tilt is designed in to the mouldings (usually done via ramps on the bogie) then I don't see it adding significantly to the cost, if at all. If the tilt mechanism was incorporated them I feel that the best option would be the route of the adding it to the mouldings as this works well on the Hornby model and wouldn't cost that much more as opposed to a fancy pendulum used in Kato's models. In my opinion this seems like the best course of action if the tilt is to be incorporated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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