jonathan452 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 As an aside isn't there a 'new GNER' (open access operator) who wish to procure additional sets for the ECML? I don't know what the latest state of play is regarding this, but it may broaden the models appeal depending upon how these additional sets measure up to the originals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 As an aside isn't there a 'new GNER' (open access operator) who wish to procure additional sets for the ECML? I don't know what the latest state of play is regarding this, but it may broaden the models appeal depending upon how these additional sets measure up to the originals. There was also talk of an operator using the WCML, using Pendolino's. Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2014 £250 for a 9 coach set you say? No need for tilting, gimmicky in n gauge. I'd sign up right now for that though. Your original suggestion Dave on a 4 car book set, with an additional pack for the extra coaches (ala Kato Eurostar/TGV) is a great way of doing it. In reality I suspect most people modelling in N will want one either purely to have one, or they'll want a full rake, I doubt many would want (say) a 7-coach rake, so the associated costs of producing each coach as a separate item would probably not be worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 I think what has to be considered here is that full 9 car sets, sold after the 1000 reward models have been sent our will be around £350 per 9 car set. As mentioned I will have to recoup lost profit etc etc, and then there will be shops mark up too, so at £250 per set it is a great price. But I would say that wouldn't i? Lol Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2014 Even at £350 it's not exactly bad - if you think of it as £120 for loco and less than £30 per coach. It's in the same ballpark as the TGV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 One thought that occurs is that it might be worth offering 2 cars separately at a later date. Some Pendolinos have been lengthened from 9 to 11-cars. If the 2 new cars are the same pattern as existing ones (a big "if" here) then Dave could offer a run of these at some point in the future, separately from the Kickstarter. As well as allowing 11-coach trains, it would allow people with a 4-car set to extend their without going all the way to a 9-car set. Assuming that Dave still plans to offer a 4-car "core" book set. I don't know if this is feasible but I thought it would be worth chucking the idea in the mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Matt, thought I'd said that. Lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 To add to the point made by alibuchan about another operator using Pendolino sets on the West Coast line, I read in the July edition of Modern Railways, that a new open access operator 'Great North Western Railway Company' which is part of Arriva UK Trains, which is owned by DB Schenker, has reached agreement with Network Rail for 2 West Coast main line open access services. One from London to Blackpool from 2017 and the other from London to Huddersfield via Manchester Victoria and then on to Leeds from 2018. The interest for this thread is that both services intend to use a new fleet of 8 six car Pendolinos. This indicates they will be new builds and likely to differ from the current Virgin stock, however an added interest in Pendolino types methinks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Dave, I would definitely take 2 full 9 car sets with additional coaches. I would agree that 'tilting', wouldn't add much to the model for me and would be quite happy without it. Given the different configurations people might want to run (9 / 11 car sets), would it be an idea to leave the sets un-numbered and include number decals to apply later. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi If I was to back the project on Kickstarter is the money taken from my account at the time of backing or when the project reaches its target amount? Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi If I was to back the project on Kickstarter is the money taken from my account at the time of backing or when the project reaches its target amount? Cheers Paul When, and only when, the project reaches it's target amount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 1000 pendos in N? What do people think about whether thats achievable for kickstarter? Or should i say 1000 pledgers..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hello, So then, if I understand it right the offer is, in essence, a 9-car Pendolino for those that sign up for £250. A thousand such sign ups are required. Those that sign up will receive a 9 car Pendolino from the initial batch as their reward. The spec of the Pendolino would be to *current* standards with lights, DCC socket, and internal close coupling. Dave Jones will project manage, and in return he will fund the packaging, shipping and research and his payback is that he will then own the tooling and be entitled to produce further runs of this model from these toolings. He can retail these at whatever price he chooses - the suggestion is £350. Of course, none of the £350 models will become available if the original Kickstarter scheme falters. I would be prepared to sign up under these terms. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Dave I'l definitely take two 9 car sets. Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hello all, One further point, according to Wikipedia (not always the best source, admittedly) the make up of a 9-car Pendolino is: DMRF + MF + PTF + MF + TS + MS + PTSRMB + MS + DMSO. This is actually seven different vehicles, though I acknowledge that some of these may be externally identical. The 11-car units include an additional TS and MS, meaning that with clever packaging it may be that those who do not want the full rake could sell off an MS and TS to those who do - leaving them with a seven car rake and also amortising the cost of their original committment. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Well there are 3 pledges to get things moving Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi I have no need for a Pendolino for any current or planned layout but then thats the same as the Blue Pullman that I own. I would be interested in one 9 car set. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2014 I would also sign up on Ben's basis, which is also my understanding. Do we need a rolling tally? 4/1000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 In for a penny..... 5/1000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Interesting, it would be nice to replace my 3D printed version with a fully-spec'd RTR model, but...I would be beyond stunned if you got 1000 people to sign up to a kickstarter. I am certain Dave is very well aware of the size of the N gauge market, and the poor sales of AC electrics at both Farish and Dapol, and that (as myself and as several others have commented regarding Dave's new model plans) DJM is an entirely unproven manufacturer with not a single model released for review and inspection. I cannot see 1000 people putting up £250 for a model that they have no idea of the end quality. We need to see some beautiful, reliable, accurate models under the DJM brand first, then get onto the ambitious stuff. Once I've had the chance to examine some models in my hands, if they are as good as promised, I will happily sign up for a pair of Pendolinos. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu from EGDL Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Gang, I would pledge for two sets, but only if QC can be guaranteed and that there is a suitable fallback option for a dud.... These sets ( as Ben alluded to) must be to current standards of finish and detail, but must also include the following; Reliable motor with sufficient 'grunt' Reliable coupling system (not a la Kato Eurostar power cars) Reliable PCBs that don't go up in a puff of smoke if you look at them the wrong way Guarantee of repair/replacement similar to current manufacturers warranties. Spares back up for the occasional 'accident' repair. I wouldn't want to pledge my hard earned cash on a display ornament. I don't wish to sound negative because I would relish seeing a pair of Pendolinos on a future layout of mine.... Later, Stu in LCRA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I believe Dave's spec for all models includes british designed PCBs, 1 year warranty and spare parts availability. I assume that any models produced via Kickstarter funding would also adhere to these specs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted August 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't believe for one minute that you would get 1000 individuals signed up for a Kickstarter, but you don't need to - you need pledges for 1000 units which given that anyone who wants a Pendolino for a layout (rather than a nice to have) is likely to want more than one which makes life slightly easier. If you produce one set number and livery and get sufficient publicity then it might well be possible. I'm sure Dapol sold at least 1000 86s split across multiple liveries, not that the two are really comparable. As others have mentioned the proof will be in the pudding ie would people sign up and pledge through the Kickstarter. I might be tempted to co-ordinate a Kickstarter campaign if there was sufficient interest expressed on here. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Stu, I cannot really stress enough the differences that I will bring to market. Spares, warranty, QC checking etc. But as David says, ( apart from Kernow's O2, and the pics of my J94 tooling) I've bought nothing to the market yet, so I'm not really a known quantity. However, I'm not asking to start the Kickstarter / crowd sourcing myself. This will be done by anyone who wishes to do so, and I'd prefer milestone payments rather than have £250k in my account ( no matter how nice that will look). So I'll gladly produce the model, but someone else has to get the numbers. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Looking at the reactions on here, there does seem to be a fair bit of time for the idea of a Pendolino. As I have sad a few times, I would love one and I think importantly I would be prepared to wait a little while to get one. Why do I say that? Others have mentioned that as yet DJM has not produced a completed N gauge model, so perhaps the best bet would be to continue to raise to profile of this idea, trying to push beyond the bounds of just RMweb whilst we wait for the first N gauge model to appear. If Dave can continue improving where he left off at Dapol with high quality N gauge models then it would look to me like it is game on and we can prove that DJM can do the job to all potential investors. For this to progress more than an idea it will need a lot of research and promotion. Naturally a thorough investigation of the potential market for a Pendo, looking at how similar units have fared on the market (i.e. would the be another 350 in terms of sales or a Blue Pullman?) and of course assess all of the funding options available, £250,000 is a big sum to find. I suppose an important question to raise now would be about the projected availability of production slots over the next two years and whether the Dave sees any potential problems going forwards for this model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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