cctransuk Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Should have gone to Specsavers, joking aside I have only just been directed to this site by a friend who wanted my opinion. Happy to supply you with a list of incorrect/missing details, but before I give up my valuable modeling time to produce a list I must ask one question, are you going to take any notice? Actually you do not need a list as these items are seen on the photograph of 1363 at the start of this topic and is where I got my information from. My GWR books and drawings are now with my son some 80 miles away near Didcot. As for my comments on the Kernow O2, I did the maths having spent most of my life in Manufacturing Engineering and know most of the problems one is going to meet using subcontractors in China, we also got them with the subcontractors in this country and when working to a dead line th No - we DO need a list ! Your have intimated that there are omissions / inaccuracies in the proposed model that we can't see; please show us the error of our ways. I am sure that you will be able to recall at least some of the problems that you identified, without referring back to your reference books. Thank you in anticipation. John Isherwood. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Happy to supply you with a list of incorrect/missing details, but before I give up my valuable modeling time to produce a list I must ask one question, are you going to take any notice? You waste plenty of modelling long time knocking products you seem to have no intention of buying, so, go on, waste a bit more and tell us where the faults are. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Should have gone to Specsavers, joking aside I have only just been directed to this site by a friend who wanted my opinion. Happy to supply you with a list of incorrect/missing details, but before I give up my valuable modeling time to produce a list I must ask one question, are you going to take any notice? Actually you do not need a list as these items are seen on the photograph of 1363 at the start of this topic and is where I got my information from. My GWR books and drawings are now with my son some 80 miles away near Didcot. As for my comments on the Kernow O2, I did the maths having spent most of my life in Manufacturing Engineering and know most of the problems one is going to meet using subcontractors in China, we also got them with the subcontractors in this country and when working to a dead line th Quite frankly I am amazed by your arrogance (go on report me). As it happens I, who commented on your previous post, and another who ticked 'agree' were those most deeply involved in the detail research for the Kernow model and we both studied the CAD in considerable detail and, in my case. at a far larger scale than it appeared in this thread. I also suspect that between us and a third person who has intimate knowledge of the class and also helped (as we again discussed at Railex on Sunday) we know just about all there is to know on that class. However I won't adopt your sort of arrogant stance and would love to see your PM and comment on it in detail. I am not prepared to enter into debate in public as there is a matter of commercial confidentiality regarding the development of the Kernow 1361 particularly as I am not prepared to offer free access to my time & research to the other manufacturer who also announced their intention to make a model of the class. I look forward to early receipt of your PM with a complete detailed list, thank you. PS By the way, and sorry to say it, but if you are comparing the CAD with certain photos of 1363 your ignorance of the class immediately betrays you. Edited May 26, 2015 by The Stationmaster 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Should have gone to Specsavers, joking aside I have only just been directed to this site by a friend who wanted my opinion. As you seem, once again, to be exhibiting the traits of a friend of yours I will give this as a final warning that disruptive approaches which appear to be little more than an attempt to damage the credibility of projects underway with claims of errors hidden behind a veil of 'I know something you don't' without substantiation or illustration will not be tolerated and may lead to removal of access to discussions or the site as a whole. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Quite frankly I am amazed by your arrogance (go on report me). As it happens I, who commented on your previous post, and another who ticked 'agree' were those most deeply involved in the detail research for the Kernow model and we both studied the CAD in considerable detail and, in my case. at a far larger scale than it appeared in this thread. I also suspect that between us and a third person who has intimate knowledge of the class and also helped (as we again discussed at Railex on Sunday) we know just about all there is to know on that class. However I won't adopt your sort of arrogant stance and would love to see your PM and comment on it in detail. I am not prepared to enter into debate in public as there is a matter of commercial confidentiality regarding the development of the Kernow 1361 particularly as I am not prepared to offer free access to my time & research to the other manufacturer who also announced their intention to make a model of the class. I look forward to early receipt of your PM with a complete detailed list, thank you. PS By the way, and sorry to say it, but if you are comparing the CAD with certain photos of 1363 your ignorance of the class immediately betrays you. I am not going to PM you, I would have done but AY stuck his nose in and accused me of meddling in something I know nothing about. The list:- The coupling rod had a Marine bearing on the end not a round boss Drain cocks on the cylinders, rather prominent on this class Brake rods finish at the leading brake shoes and not carry on to the front of the loco Springs over the centre axle missing Washout plugs missing from the front corners from the firebox Lamp iron missing from the top of the smokebox Steam Lance valve missing from the smokebox front Ashpan and Firebox detail missing from between the middle axle and trailing axle Also what is that pile of dog poo on top of the dome, it is a dainty fitting Need I go on as there are a number of other missing items. I do not think your friends know that much about the class even though one is still in existence and there is plenty of information in the OPC and Wild Swan books. You claim to have the original GA then why do you not look at it. Why were Martin Finney kits correct, because he took great pains in researching his subject. It seems to me that everyone who has a hooky 3D CAD package today thinks he is a great designer of models, not true as it takes more than just modeling them, research is the key. I am sorry if you find this offensive but I have been offended when all I was trying to do was help at no reward to myself. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I am not going to PM you, I would have done but AY stuck his nose in .............................................. but I have been offended when all I was trying to do was help at no reward to myself. Loconuts I 'stuck my nose in' because you were irritating a lot of people, not just me. It's your call (as with others before you); carry on posting like that and access will be removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Stepney Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Lamp iron missing from the top of the smokebox I'm by no means an expert on these engines but a quick search on the Kernow website shows a picture of 1365 in BR Black and it is missing the lamp iron from the top of the smokebox. And a quick google search brings up a picture of 1361 on railuk, also in BR black, which also appears to be missing the lamp iron from the top of the smokebox. Unless I'm missing something I would gather that the CAD drawing not having one is correct depending on which engine and era its representing. And since the CAD doesn't show paint schemes we can't tell exactly which era or exact engine the CAD shown to the public is representing. I'm a bit surprised that this detail was missed before speaking out about all the things that Dave and all those involved in the project have missed. As I said before, I'm by no means an expert on these engine nor have I ever seen the preserved one in person but I do know from working on locomotives that just because they come from the same class doesn't mean that every small detail will be the same from engine to engine. And I'm sure Dave and all those involved have done their research and know which details go on which ones. I look forward to the release of this model and all the other ones from Kernow and Dave Jones because what the CAD does show me is that this model will be a good model which from just a quick glance you will know immediately that it's a GWR 1361! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2015 I am not going to PM you, I would have done but AY stuck his nose in and accused me of meddling in something I know nothing about. The list:- The coupling rod had a Marine bearing on the end not a round boss Drain cocks on the cylinders, rather prominent on this class Brake rods finish at the leading brake shoes and not carry on to the front of the loco Springs over the centre axle missing Washout plugs missing from the front corners from the firebox Lamp iron missing from the top of the smokebox Steam Lance valve missing from the smokebox front Ashpan and Firebox detail missing from between the middle axle and trailing axle Also what is that pile of dog poo on top of the dome, it is a dainty fitting Need I go on as there are a number of other missing items. I do not think your friends know that much about the class even though one is still in existence and there is plenty of information in the OPC and Wild Swan books. You claim to have the original GA then why do you not look at it. Why were Martin Finney kits correct, because he took great pains in researching his subject. It seems to me that everyone who has a hooky 3D CAD package today thinks he is a great designer of models, not true as it takes more than just modeling them, research is the key. I am sorry if you find this offensive but I have been offended when all I was trying to do was help at no reward to myself. Loconuts Thank you for your list - don't overlook the fact that the first CADs are of course checked and changes are made before later stages in development. Don't forget also about detail variations and changes over the years - these were, after all GWR engines! As it happens the item from the top of the dome was separately photographed and measured and no doubt the designer did look at the GW drawing while he was doing the initial CAD because I understand that he has a copy of it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Thank you for your list - don't overlook the fact that the first CADs are of course checked and changes are made before later stages in development. Don't forget also about detail variations and changes over the years - these were, after all GWR engines! As it happens the item from the top of the dome was separately photographed and measured and no doubt the designer did look at the GW drawing while he was doing the initial CAD because I understand that he has a copy of it. Thank you for your response to my list. I fully realise that changes took place on any locomotive over the years and I am the first to admit that any changes that took place under BR are out of my sphere of knowledge as that era does not interest me. I based my knowledge of the locos under GWR ownership. The item on top of the dome was the nut fixing the dome in position and was quite fine in appearance, if this was changed under BR that is something I cannot comment on. I also realise that this is the first CADs and I feel commenting at this stage is not going to upset the applecart as commenting after metal is being cut is not the right way. Kernow has produced a very fine model of the Beattie Well tank and I would think that they would like to continue with future locos in a similar vein, It is not easy being a small manufacturer against the big boys so therefore they need to be the best. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hailstone Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The Item you refer to was an oiler for the regulator valve - as I recall, it had 2 tap screws, the bottom one would be closed, the top one would be taken out and cylinder oil poured in then the top screw would be replaced and then the bottom screw opened a little, crude but effective. Regards, Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) Hi All, Alex - Correct that is the regulator oiler. The picture from the GWT archive is of No. 1363 and if you have access to the works photo of No. 1361, it is exactly the same as that except it is in the 'proper' colours! I hope this helps! All the best, Castle EDIT: Sorry I'm not allowed to publish it but it is the property of the GWT... Edited May 27, 2015 by Castle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The Item you refer to was an oiler for the regulator valve - as I recall, it had 2 tap screws, the bottom one would be closed, the top one would be taken out and cylinder oil poured in then the top screw would be replaced and then the bottom screw opened a little, crude but effective. Regards, Alex Having spent another successful day track laying I came in and found this. Thanks for that information, I did not realise that was fitted to this class. I know the Dean/Armstrong boilers had a oiler fitted to the dome but it was done away with as the years went on. By the time of Collet it had become just a nut. I also know that a complete set of works drawings were sent to the GWS by the NRM in 1977 as I was lucky enough to be visiting York to do some research as they were printing these drawings off so managed to obtain a spare copy of the GA. My copy got damaged a few years ago by damp. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 You know, the more I hear folks bellyaching about this or that being wrong with a forthcoming model the more I become inclined to order another loco I don't need just to say "s-d you"..... Les 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 You know, the more I hear folks bellyaching about this or that being wrong with a forthcoming model the more I become inclined to order another loco I don't need just to say "s-d you"..... Les Hi Les If your wallet can stand it I would do that, no skin off my nose as long as the money does not come out of my account and I am sure Mr Kernow would be very about that news. Loconuts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I don't usually get involved in these types of threads that have moved so far the actual model into a argument but, I for one am over the moon DJM and Kernow have taken a gamble and produced this excellent and useful little engine for us the modelling world. I don't rivet count, as long as the model looks like the real thing and doesn't have a really stupid error like the 1st Bachmann Class 37 (with huge lip over the cab door) then its a goer for me. I've order one I think, if not two and I cant wait to get them out of the boxes and PLAY with them. After all we're all big kids and the models are big kids toys. Well done Kernow and Dave..........oh and well I'm here, how's about a O gauge version ???? Great Western Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought05 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Seconded for an O gauge version! Edited May 31, 2015 by Dreadnought05 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Seconded for an O gauge version! You're going in the wrong direction, I want an N Gauge version! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Does anyone know how far along Kernow are with this? It's gone a bit quiet. Cheers, CoY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tim Hall Posted March 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2016 Does anyone know how far along Kernow are with this? It's gone a bit quiet. Cheers, CoY Don't know, but must cancel mine, as have acquired a decent kit built one for £50 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank S. Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 In the very first post on this thread, Kernow said that they had a special web page on the Kernow/DJM 1361 class loco. BUT the link goes to ~ NOTHING. On the thread about the Heljan 1361 class David Jones referred readers to the 1361-class thread under DJ Models. BUT I'm unable to find the thread ??? Does this mean that Kernow and DJM have thrown in the towel and dropped the 1361 class so Heljan win by default. ??? Or, am I missiong something ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Does this mean that Kernow and DJM have thrown in the towel and dropped the 1361 class Certainly not from my current understanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Or mine for that matter. If in doubt, why not, instead of negatively speculating, just give Kernow a ring, or mail them? They are good guys and I'm sure will give you an interesting / good answer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod4 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 The correct link to the Kernow webpage about the 1361 saddle tank is here http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/150/GWR-1361-Class-Saddle-Tank (ps it took all of 35 seconds via 3 clicks to find on their website despite my diodes playing up) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted May 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6, 2016 Kernow Model Centre have advised today that tooling has now commenced on the 1361 GWR Saddle Tank! They have also announced an additional model, K2201A in Works Photographic Grey. Unfortunately the additional tooling required to cover the unique features of each of the five models has required a price rise, but existing orders will be honoured at the previous price. You can still save £10 by placing a pre-order:K2201 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1361 BR Black L/C £124.99K2201A DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1361 Photographic Grey £124.99K2202 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1362 BR Black E/E £124.99K2203 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1363 GWR Green Shirtbutton emblem £124.99K2204 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1364 in GWR Green GWR lettering £124.99K2205 DJ Models 0-6-0 1361 Steam Loco 1365 BR Black L/C heavily weathered £134.99See their dedicated page here http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/150/GWR-1361-Class-Saddle-Tank 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted May 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6, 2016 Now that is great news Graham, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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