Kernow Model Rail Centre to produce GWR 1361 0-6-0 Saddle Tank

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Edge said:

Hi all, am considering picking up the works grey one from Kernow for a preserved railway project. 
 

What is the general performance of these critters like? I can’t imagine that it will ever do much more than pull a couple of coaches pretty slowly, but even £70 is a lot for me so I’d rather not be buying a pup if I can get away with it . I’m unlikely to ever actually do anything to the model other than fit a decoder some time in the future.

 

im aware that this may be covered elsewhere in the topic, but I’m at work right now so please take mercy on a man who doesn’t want to wade through 30 pages  

I have three - all run perfectly ok (one is excellent, totally quiet and really smooth running) but one them although running well has considerable whine at over fast speeds.  I expect a long running-in, and checking the lubrication, would benefit a noisy one.

 

At the current price the works grey one is a steal!

Edited July 30, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[97xx]

I was considering picking up the weathered one on something of a whim.

 

Admittedly I have only read a handful of the later posts here but unless I'm missing something they seem to be frankly terribly badly made mechanically.

 

[Cofga]

Mine arrived today and it sounds like a 1950s coffee grinder and runs worse than my Oxford Rail Dean’s Goods did right out of the box. I turned BEMF off in the decoder and that helped a bit. I have also lubed it and now will start a long run in as The Stationmaster suggested might help—I hope he’s right. 

[Stubby47]

Kernow's 1361 after a bit of running in, much better. https://youtu.be/M6zn6uuwdcg

[Mikkel]

Nice video Stu. Loco sneaking through the pass so as not to wake up the Daltons.

[Cofga]

Well, I finally got mine quieted down quite a bit, however running it in wasn’t what did it. I disassembled the model, removing the cab, boiler, weight, and associated bits and pieces. After checking it all out and doing some lubing around where needed I reassembled it component by component. Then as I added back each section I gave it a test drive. It ran very smooth and quiet. However when I reattached the cab using the 2 small screws under the coal load it got noisy again. So I loosened those screws and it quieted down again. Also when I installed the cab roof it got a bit noisier but I think that was mainly because with it all enclosed it acted as a sound box. If yours is noisy try popping off the coal load and losening those two screws a touch and see if that helps.
 

At any rate I am now satisfied that with more running in it will be almost as quiet as my Hatton’s/DJM 0-4-2 which I think is a lovely little runner. I also hope that once I add a sound decoder that will help with any remaining noise—by drowning it out! I’ll post a video on my DCC Guy YouTube channel of the installation once the decoder and sugar cube speaker arrive. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Cofga

[BernieL]

The product looks delightful, very small compared to a Jinty.  Kernow did a great post pack with a sturdy box lined with cut to size foam to protect it for the journey to Melbourne on top of the original product packaging.  Being a beginner, I opted for the recommended Bachmann 6 pin decoder and paid for fitting.  On arrival the loco was dead.  The decoder is easy to access by pulling on the smoke box door held on magnetically and taking out the decoder and socket with tweezers.  I replaced the blanking plug and away it went on both DC and DCC power. 

 

Noticeable are the very fine pins on the Bachmann decoder compared to the blanking plug, (other RM web posts say the same). Kernow support is brilliant via email and made some suggestions that got the decoder installed loco running.  These suggestions included jiggling, decoder reset and some CV changes.  Warning, it comes preset with momentum, so when first jiggling it went off at full speed, the momentum was too slow to stop it and being a newby it took me too long to hit the red button so off the end of the track it shot. 

How far can a coupling hook bounce, where should I look for it?

 

The very small wheels and rigid chassis mean it picks up every track defect.

[boxbrownie]

I finally got around to unpacking and test running my 1361 bought in Feb this year, oh dear what a gorgeous little model but runs like a drunken monkey.....definitely something amiss inside as at low speeds (that’s a relative term a it just doesn’t run slow at all on D.C.) it’s very erratic and as if the is a tight spot, at high speed it will run but is so noisy (and ridiculously fast) it’s shocking, anyhoo decided to investigate a bit and after taking the body off nothing helped so loosened the motor mounting and lifted it away from the gearing, the chassis runs down an inclined track nice and freely so no binding, but the motor when free of the gears sits at a steady voltage and pulses a slightly differing speeds, not by much but enough not to be correct, and if more voltage is applied and the motor runs fast it is very noisy and sound as if the motor/worm is out of balance, very erratic for supposedly a cordless smooth motor.

 

Very disappointing indeed.

[Les1952]

8 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I finally got around to unpacking and test running my 1361 bought in Feb this year, oh dear what a gorgeous little model but runs like a drunken monkey.....definitely something amiss inside as at low speeds (that’s a relative term a it just doesn’t run slow at all on D.C.) it’s very erratic and as if the is a tight spot, at high speed it will run but is so noisy (and ridiculously fast) it’s shocking, anyhoo decided to investigate a bit and after taking the body off nothing helped so loosened the motor mounting and lifted it away from the gearing, the chassis runs down an inclined track nice and freely so no binding, but the motor when free of the gears sits at a steady voltage and pulses a slightly differing speeds, not by much but enough not to be correct, and if more voltage is applied and the motor runs fast it is very noisy and sound as if the motor/worm is out of balance, very erratic for supposedly a cordless smooth motor.

 

Very disappointing indeed.

 

At least you know what the fault is for return and replacement. 

 

That sounds as if either the motor shaft is slightly out of straight or the worm has been milled out of true.  Either could be by less than the amount to fail a visual inspection.

 

Do Kernow have a replacement in stock? 

 

Les

 

 

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

At least you know what the fault is for return and replacement. 

 

That sounds as if either the motor shaft is slightly out of straight or the worm has been milled out of true.  Either could be by less than the amount to fail a visual inspection.

 

Do Kernow have a replacement in stock? 

 

Les

 

 

Indeed there is no visual evidence of the worm being out of true, but it really does “sound” like the motor shaft is loose in its bearings, if that makes sense?

 

I might ring Kernow......or just have the Loco as rusting hulk, I bought it just because it looked nice....it is completely out of period for my modelling period.

[MikeParkin65]

21 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I finally got around to unpacking and test running my 1361 bought in Feb this year, oh dear what a gorgeous little model but runs like a drunken monkey.....definitely something amiss inside as at low speeds (that’s a relative term a it just doesn’t run slow at all on D.C.) it’s very erratic and as if the is a tight spot, at high speed it will run but is so noisy (and ridiculously fast) it’s shocking, anyhoo decided to investigate a bit and after taking the body off nothing helped so loosened the motor mounting and lifted it away from the gearing, the chassis runs down an inclined track nice and freely so no binding, but the motor when free of the gears sits at a steady voltage and pulses a slightly differing speeds, not by much but enough not to be correct, and if more voltage is applied and the motor runs fast it is very noisy and sound as if the motor/worm is out of balance, very erratic for supposedly a cordless smooth motor.

 

Very disappointing indeed.

That sounds to me like the (coreless?) motor may not like your controller on DC. I experienced the very same symptoms with a Bachmann J72 - rubbish on a Hornby trainset controller (my running in test bed), smooth as silk on DCC

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

That sounds to me like the (coreless?) motor may not like your controller on DC. I experienced the very same symptoms with a Bachmann J72 - rubbish on a Hornby trainset controller (my running in test bed), smooth as silk on DCC

That’s interesting, I am using as my D.C. controller a Guagemaster twin track inertia (turned off) unit, which I believe is very suitable for coreless motors, but your theory is certainly worth a try........problem is it means I’d have to either buy the sound decoder I was going to buy and chance it being a waste of money or buy a normal DCC chip and if it works and use the chip as a standby.....might be the better option first I think.

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

That’s interesting, I am using as my D.C. controller a Guagemaster twin track inertia (turned off) unit, which I believe is very suitable for coreless motors, but your theory is certainly worth a try........problem is it means I’d have to either buy the sound decoder I was going to buy and chance it being a waste of money or buy a normal DCC chip and if it works and use the chip as a standby.....might be the better option first I think.

 

 

Exactly the dilemma I faced (with the added risk that the J72 is my only Next 18 loco!) but I bought the planned sound chip anyway. And it all worked out fine. Good luck  By the way there is a lot of discussion about the coreless motor  and DC controller characteristics on the Bachmann 94xx thread. 

[Siberian Snooper]

6 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

That’s interesting, I am using as my D.C. controller a Guagemaster twin track inertia (turned off) unit, which I believe is very suitable for coreless motors, but your theory is certainly worth a try........problem is it means I’d have to either buy the sound decoder I was going to buy and chance it being a waste of money or buy a normal DCC chip and if it works and use the chip as a standby.....might be the better option first I think.

 

 

 

Do you have a decoder of any sort that you could borrow from another loco, just to try before you buy.

 

 

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

Do you have a decoder of any sort that you could borrow from another loco, just to try before you buy.

 

 

Unfortunately not, I have no other six pin locos/decoders.....

 

Looked around at sound decoder options and most places are now shut (for sound decoders) until the new year.

[Cofga]

I finally installed a SoundTraxx Econami UK steam sound decoder, TCS KA1 Keep Alive, and sugar cube speaker in mine. I have been breaking it in for several months on a DC track and DCC Concepts Rolling Road but it is still noisy. I have a video of the process on my “Model Railroading” YouTube channel here

 

Hope it will be of use to some. I can offer a couple tips, (1) do not over tighten the hold down screws in the coal bunker as this can increase noise, and (2) be careful with oil on the axles as it will interfere with electrical pickup resulting in erratic running—Larry

Edited December 28, 2020 by Cofga

[boxbrownie]

I installed a decoder in mine as recommended to see if it improved running over D.C. operation, and frankly it helped at medium/higher speeds but from standstill to crawling the Loco just sits the and then suddenly jumps off to a start then slows to a slower speed, but the slow speed is still very erratic.

 

This is the worst Loco I have had regarding slow speed operation.

[Cofga]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I installed a decoder in mine as recommended to see if it improved running over D.C. operation, and frankly it helped at medium/higher speeds but from standstill to crawling the Loco just sits the and then suddenly jumps off to a start then slows to a slower speed, but the slow speed is still very erratic.

 

This is the worst Loco I have had regarding slow speed operation.

Coreless motors generally give decoders trouble with BEMF so you might try adjusting those parameters or if possible turn BEMF off entirely and see if that improves it any. I had the same issues with my Oxford Rail Dean’s Goods 0-6-0 with the factory installed LokSound decoder. I tried adjusting it to no avail. I then tried a selection of decoders until I installed the SoundTraxx Eco-100 UK steam version. It runs great now and I use that decoder in all my UK locos. Their motor control parameters seem perfect for these coreless motors which UK model makers seem to be using more often. 

[Cofga]

Well, I got one of the DCC Concepts rolling road gadgets and have given the loco a couple of more break-in runs (30 min each direction) and still noisy. I am resigned to the fact that you get what you pay for and since I got it for about half the original MSRP they threw in the noisy gears for free! If I turn up the chuffs they for the most part drown out most of the gear noise, especially if I keep it down to a crawl, leave the cylinder cocks open, and blow the whistle a lot. Easy to see why DJM is no more.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Cofga said:

Well, I got one of the DCC Concepts rolling road gadgets and have given the loco a couple of more break-in runs (30 min each direction) and still noisy. I am resigned to the fact that you get what you pay for and since I got it for about half the original MSRP they threw in the noisy gears for free! If I turn up the chuffs they for the most part drown out most of the gear noise, especially if I keep it down to a crawl, leave the cylinder cocks open, and blow the whistle a lot. Easy to see why DJM is no more.

I tried mine with a DCC concepts/RoS decoder......still no good, and to top it all off the decoder refuses to reset CV8@8...all I get is an error when trying.

 

Im sticking with diesels.

[Les1952]

14 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I tried mine with a DCC concepts/RoS decoder......still no good, and to top it all off the decoder refuses to reset CV8@8...all I get is an error when trying.

 

Im sticking with diesels.

 

I get decoders that refuse to reset in Fleischmann and Minitrix models.  Generally the same model will exhibit the same symptoms on two or three different decoders.  The only cure I've found is to use Lenz on those locos.

 

Les

 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Les1952 said:

 

I get decoders that refuse to reset in Fleischmann and Minitrix models.  Generally the same model will exhibit the same symptoms on two or three different decoders.  The only cure I've found is to use Lenz on those locos.

 

Les

 

That’s very odd, I don’t see how the wiring on a Loco can do that but it must be something odd about them, I am going to try and reset the decoder on my DCC tester soon.

[Les1952]

13 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

That’s very odd, I don’t see how the wiring on a Loco can do that but it must be something odd about them, I am going to try and reset the decoder on my DCC tester soon.

 

I suspect it might be down to the current drawn but I've now had a few Continental locos where Gaugemaster, Dapol and even Zimo locos have refused resets, or long addresses, or run reverse...  In every case a Lenz Silver Mini has solved the problem and the disgraced decoder has found a place in my UK fleet where it has performed happily.

 

Les

 

[boxbrownie]

Decoder reset successfully first time in the decoder tester........

[Ighten]

Couldn't resist at the current price the weathered version - has anyone else had an issue though with the packaging rubbing the weathering in places...