West End Workbench

[Tom F]

Not to take up Jonathan’s thread with anymore off topic talk.

 

I’ve set up a thread on LNER forum

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12623

[Jesse Sim]

Morning Jonathan 

 

what are the best wheels to use for wizard models kits and for a MJT gresley bogie? 

[jwealleans]

I use Hornby wheels for almost everything. Phil (on the Grantham thread) is right that they do foul the edges of the slots on MJT bogies, so you have to file them larger before assembly. You might also have to chamfer brake gear on the Wizard kits or set the brakes slightly forward to get free running without the shoes fouling the wheels. I've used hundreds over the years and I can still count the number of non-concentric ones I've had on one hand. They come slightly tight to gauge, so you'll need a back to back to correct them. Overall (and I can't speak for the situation in Australia) they're the cheapest reliably round wheels you can get. I buy them when I see them cheap at shows or on Ebay and keep a stock. For carriage wheels, beware of the Pullman variety (I thin there's an 'X' on the end of the number) which are live to one rail. Not a great idea on brass vehicles although they're fine with things like Kirk kits.

 

Wizard's wheels are pretty good, I use them for split spoke examples. Bachmann I tend to avoid as the plastic muff design makes them hard to regauge and they cause a dead short if you use them with metal kits.

 

The wheels which come with Dapol kits have a very odd shape and I've had nothing but trouble on the few occasions I've used them.

[teaky]

In case it helps anyone, Hornby wheels are on offer at £6.60 for a pack of 10 axles on Amazon at the moment: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-Gauge-14-1mm-Coach-Wheel/dp/B004648IAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521705338&sr=8-1&keywords=Hornby+wheels

[jwealleans]

... and I note that the shop opposite Grosmont station is doing spoked ones for £8, although postage is a bit OTT on them. I'll look in next time I'm up there.

[St Enodoc]

As Jonathan has said, Hornby wheels are not bad but I was chatting to Mike Edge recently who told me that the current Gibson wheels have none of the problems of those previously available. Given the latest price increase on Hornby wheels I will probably go back to Gibson's when I next need to order.

[jwealleans]

Gibson wheels used to bring their own problem in that they’re thinner than other makes and their own back to back gauge makes allowance for that. Setting b2b on other makes with the Gibson gauge caused derailments so it had to be replaced.

 

Hornby wheels have more than doubled in price in the last couple of years and I buy them when I see them cheap. I’ll look at Gibsons again when I see them at York.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Gibson wheels used to bring their own problem in that they’re thinner than other makes and their own back to back gauge makes allowance for that. Setting b2b on other makes with the Gibson gauge caused derailments so it had to be replaced.

 

Hornby wheels have more than doubled in price in the last couple of years and I buy them when I see them cheap. I’ll look at Gibsons again when I see them at York.

 

Jonathan,

 

B2B is independent of tyre width.

 

There is no mention of needing "special" B2B gauges in the AGW catalogue. It does however list  "fine scale" and "universal" gauges with 14.8mm and 14.5mm dimensions.

 

Markits list a 14.5mm B2B gauge so "universal".

 

The 14.8mm dimension matches the DOGA "fine scale wheel"  standard, but their "intermediate wheel" standard is 14.4mm  so neither AGW or Markits match that.

 

Jol

[Daddyman]

I always set finescale wheels (Gibsons, etc) at 14.75-ish, on the advice of one authority or other, possibly on RMWeb; I leave RTR wheels at 14.5. 

 

I was trying to remember where my "wide" B2B gauge came from (it's a brass drum, with a slot that fits over the axle, and a handle extending from the drum) and I think it may have been C&L:  

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76427-c-l-finescale-4bboo-back-to-back-gauge-for-rtr-00-scale/

 

I remember my father buying a 00 B2B gauge a few years ago, and having to file it down to 14.5... Not sure whose it was, but it's clear now he was sold a finescale 00 gauge without requesting it. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Daddyman

[jwealleans]

It's stretching the memory a bit now, but I think David's explanation fits - I was sold a finescale gauge, when what I needed was a universal one. I think I measured it (and the club one we were using as a standard) at 14.45mm.

 

I did have a conversation with Alan about it afterwards, which may be where my 'narrower' wheels recollection has come from - 'finer' may have been the term employed. It was all all long time ago and we were so much younger...

 

My current model, with which I'm very happy, sounds like David's without the handle and came from Wizard Models.

[St Enodoc]

It's stretching the memory a bit now, but I think David's explanation fits - I was sold a finescale gauge, when what I needed was a universal one. I think I measured it (and the club one we were using as a standard) at 14.45mm.

 

I did have a conversation with Alan about it afterwards, which may be where my 'narrower' wheels recollection has come from - 'finer' may have been the term employed. It was all all long time ago and we were so much younger...

 

My current model, with which I'm very happy, sounds like David's without the handle and came from Wizard Models. 

So many gauges, so many standards (no, I'm not going any further down that path).

 

14.5 mm, which was/is the BRMSB's recommended back-to-back dimension, was the de facto standard when I joined Leeds MRS over 40 years ago. It allowed interoperability on all the club layouts and those built by the members. I bought a gauge then that I still use now (Precision Scale Models of Newport, I think) and I still try to aim for that dimension.

 

For what it's worth, and seeing as he is using Peco track, I'd suggest that Jesse aims for the same.

[gr.king]

I'm tempted to suggest that 14.5 is a good starting point for the user of the most popular types of track and wheels. Even then, it may be necessary to make adjustments to certain sets of wheels on particular pieces of rolling stock based on careful observation of the behaviour of those items on particular pieces of pointwork. If you start to employ finer scale or "minority taste" wheels and track, including hand-built track, then you'll have to either work to an established set of different standards or set things up to a workable standard of your own.

[jwealleans]

Not much activity from me recently - I've been very busy with other things and to be honest wasn't terribly motivated. I have been fiddling on with the 6 wheel carriages for the Stirling Single, though, so here's where we are this evening:

 

 

The Compo is the most advanced of the set as it's the proving vehicle for the construction of all the others. Placed alongside the D & S D245, it looks to me as if it needs to go up about half a mil.

 

Mike Trice kindly made the ends and roofs of his 3D prints available as separate items, so I've used those as a timesaver. The ends here are scratchbuilt but the roof, balanced on top, is Mike's with no cleaning up at all.

 

Following behind on the stocks now is an XFL (is that right?) to D. 84. This has the laser cut sides, 3D printed ends, brass droplights (51L/RDEB) and a paxolin floor so far.

 

 

Pleasantly surprised to receive these at the weekend - not that they came, but I didn't think they'd be quite so quick. Looking forward to putting them together.

 

[gr.king]

I'll watch to see which parts of the 7 plank you have any trouble with before I apply that knowledge to the effortless construction of my 5 plank version.

[Jesse Sim]

Could I use the Bachmann full disc wheels for the DS kits teak kits?

 

Obviously painted.

[jwealleans]

On opening one box, these appear to have the springs and axleboxes cast as part of the body. Unfortunately two of the four on the one I opened had broken off in transit. I'll probably replace with the MJT equivalent as I have some to hand. Other than that they look as straightforward as the 5 plank was.

 

Jesse, I don't have any 14mm Bachmann wheels, but there's no reason not to use them as long as they're insulated between wheel and axle. I have had their wheels which are a cast wheel and stub axle either end of a central plastic muff. I'm sure you can work out why those are a really bad idea on a metal vehicle. They're also very hard to regauge if not spot on at source.

[jwealleans]

Surprised myself with another quite productive evening. Maybe things are looking up.

 

Lav First now on a rolling chassis and body attached.

 

 

Regular readers will know how I do these things, but for anyone who hasn't seen inside or under one of my carriages before:

 

 

Plastruct angle superglued to the end, with two captive nuts on a brass plate superglued to that. Holes through these and the Paxolin floor and countersunk 10BA screws holding body to underframe. I had to rebate Mike's ends to allow the sides to attach neatly and overall it's just slightly longer than Mike's roof, but nothing insurmountable.

 

 

Underneath, solebars from 2mm x 4mm brass angle soldered along its length and stepped slightly out so the body sits on it. 14mm W irons from Comet (one fixed, one rocking) with the middle axle in the cradle which comes on the same etch and simply floating on a piece of .45 wire. Jesse, that's what I suggest you do with the centre axle on that D 171 van. I used Dan's centre axle assembly and had no end of problems with it shorting everywhere.

 

 

3 out of 7, posed in the order in which they will run. It's starting to take shape.

Edited May 4, 2018 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

This morning I had a go at the footboards. These are made of 3 x 1mm brass angle for strength. The complicating factor is that the centre axleguard goes up behind the board onto the solebar and Mike T has done a very nice one piece 3D print of this. I didn't want to compromise the strength of the print by cutting it, so the angle needs to be slotted to allow it to slide up the back.

 

As ever, pictures speak far more eloquently.

 

 

The axleguard assembly.

 

 

Angle soldered into place. One thing which came out of this exercise was the realisation that this is better done before the wheels are fitted.

 

 

The slot made before attaching the board. There is some scope for thinning the 3D print as well.

 

 

The finished assembly, complete with slight droop. These won't be permanently attached until much later in the assembly process.

[MikeTrice]

Curious how you are going to do the lower footboard. I am putting off doing them on my build but now have the raw materials to hand so just need a quiet period to have a go.

[Compound2632]

Curious how you are going to do the lower footboard. I am putting off doing them on my build but now have the raw materials to hand so just need a quiet period to have a go.

 

I've been looking forward to your footboards. Victorian 6-wheelers look indecent without them - or am I just in-period prudish?

[jwealleans]

I was planning on something like this, Mike.

 

 

The same 3 x 1mm angle on .7 wire. Part of the advantage of the Paxolin floor is that you can solder to it so it's as strong as practical. That said, the .45 wire on this is just pushed/melted into the plastic solebar with the aid of a soldering iron and it's held together thus far.

[Barry O]

JW I may happen to have some spare Hornby wagon wHEELS due to some emergency brake vans for Carlisle stuff I am completing. Shall I hang onto them or Ebay them?

 

Baz

[jwealleans]

Hang on to them, Baz, please.

[Jesse Sim]

Those Bachman wheels do short out, ! 

 

Ill have to get some Hornby? ones? 

[St Enodoc]

Those Bachman wheels do short out, ######! 

 

Ill have to get some Hornby? ones? 

Remind me on Saturday week and I'll see what I can find.