West End Workbench

[Headstock]

23 minutes ago, macgeordie said:

 

Hi Andrew

 

If you are allowed to let me have a copy of the photo I will endevour to modify the drawing to suit.

 

Jonathan, lovely job so far, keep me posted on anything else which you think might need a tweak.

 

Ian

 

Thanks for the post Ian,

 

I'm still trying to work out what is going on, whether the edge of the beading is cut back to the lights over the doors or the doors are flush with the beading. I suspect that the doors are flush with the beading all around. This would make sense, as when the doors are open, they are supposed to fold back on themselves, hence the door stops on the body sides. If they were recessed behind the vertical beading this would prevent the doors opening all the way. I will send you some pictures shortly so you can see what you think.

[jwealleans]

Andrew very kindly sent through some better pictures which showed that those door toplights are indeed flush with the doors.  Ian is making the necessary changes to the drawing.

 

I went back to the BG tonight after a few days away from it.  I've added the other side handrails and also experimented with the end beading.  There will be provision for this in the next iteration, but I had to make my own.  For the lower I used some MJT fret, full thickness but filed down after attaching.  I haven't quite got both sides in line, but that won't be apparent with a gangway in place.  Normal solder to attach to the existing beading, low melt onto the end casting.

 

 

For the top beading I hesitated about to try solder as the roof dome is whitemetal and there's a great deal of filler over the upper end.  I tried 10 x 30 thou Evergreen strip, superglued in one piece and then to cut down and dress once the glue has fully set.

 

 

Although my natural inclination is to solder, I think the plastic looks as good.

[Headstock]

54 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Andrew very kindly sent through some better pictures which showed that those door toplights are indeed flush with the doors.  Ian is making the necessary changes to the drawing.

 

I went back to the BG tonight after a few days away from it.  I've added the other side handrails and also experimented with the end beading.  There will be provision for this in the next iteration, but I had to make my own.  For the lower I used some MJT fret, full thickness but filed down after attaching.  I haven't quite got both sides in line, but that won't be apparent with a gangway in place.  Normal solder to attach to the existing beading, low melt onto the end casting.

 

 

For the top beading I hesitated about to try solder as the roof dome is whitemetal and there's a great deal of filler over the upper end.  I tried 10 x 30 thou Evergreen strip, superglued in one piece and then to cut down and dress once the glue has fully set.

 

 

Although my natural inclination is to solder, I think the plastic looks as good.

 

Evening Jonathan,

 

I like the sliced off effect to the roofline, a very distinctive feature of these bogie vans. Would I be correct in the assumption that the ends are curved with a flat section for the gangway? It occurs to me that if I get the opportunity to build one, I may be faced with the most complicated teak, lining and weathering paint job.

[jwealleans]

Quote

It occurs to me that if I get the opportunity to build one, I may be faced with the most complicated teak, lining and weathering paint job.

 

You're by no means the first to have that thought, Andrew.  This one will be crimson, but I do intend to do a teak one.  I'm sure it will be character building.

[Jon4470]

Post war = no lining?

 

Pre war = deep breath.....and maybe “only “ do the main panels below the waist?

 

Jon

[Headstock]

To be authentic, mine should be filthy. It was still recorded as late as 1955, at Leicester, as still carrying the pre war livery under the grime. I don't think any would have received just the teak paint  without lining or even the plain brown applied to new steel paneled and 'plywood specials' built during the war. Being probably the most elaberate teak livey that you can produce (the fake beading also needs to go on and then the lining, unlike the Thompsons) the question is how much you abliterate under the muck, when it would be more sensible to just do the muck. The latter option would be authentic, but feels like a bit of a cheat.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Headstock
remove an s

[gr.king]

For my 1935 five car steel panelled mock-teak set I ensured that the teak graining, subtle as it was, ran horizontally below the waist and vertically above, then "simply" applied the primrose yellow lining with bow-pen and straight edge, not bothering to firstly try to suggest highlights and shading associated with the mock beadings and mouldings. Apart from the extra labour that would be involved in trying to fully suggest the mock beadings etc I was concerned that the more I tried to apply, the greater the risk of it going wrong or looking over-done. I think the result with the lining alone was quite acceptable for 4mm scale and for viewing from a normal range with the human eye, and lining alone would no doubt be all that would be justified if overall filth is then to be applied. The "daunting" task of lining my five vehicles melted away into pure pleasure once I was brave enough to sit down with the tools and soon found myself ruling satisfactory lines at unexpected speed.

[micklner]

Jonathan,

      Just rembered these which I used on my TPO a while back. The glue was poor, but that was aggravated by placing them on raised beading, on a flat surface they should be much easier to apply . 

 

http://www.marcmodels.co.uk/Images/Waterslide transfers LNER Coach Lining.pdf

 

The only possible downside is I have read on here of non delivery from Marc Models. I have noticed he no longer takes PayPal payments due to change of regulations. No idea what this might mean ? ,as never read anywhere else re Paypal doing anything of the sort. He now only takes cheques and BACS which makes me personally (very) wary ??

Edited August 31, 2019 by micklner

[jwealleans]

Thanks, Mick.  I think i have a set of those, though no idea where I acquired them from.  I think Graeme's approach of simply lining onto the panels is probably the best - if you tried to represent faux beading it would have to be so overscale as to look very odd and you've double the chance of messing things up. 

 

I have some LNER officials which I think came to me from Nick Campling and they look to be painted in a very consistent colour with no apparent trace of graining.  That might be the approach to take.  That's how Steve Banks has done his and it looks OK to me.

[Tony Teague]

10 hours ago, micklner said:

The only possible downside is I have read on here of non delivery from Marc Models. I have noticed he no longer takes PayPal payments due to change of regulations. No idea what this might mean ? ,as never read anywhere else re Paypal doing anything of the sort. He now only takes cheques and BACS which makes me personally (very) wary ??

 

Mike Radford of MARC Models has been unwell for some time and there are other postings related to non-delivery elsewhere on RMWeb; I regret to have to say that I would avoid.

[Headstock]

18 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Thanks, Mick.  I think i have a set of those, though no idea where I acquired them from.  I think Graeme's approach of simply lining onto the panels is probably the best - if you tried to represent faux beading it would have to be so overscale as to look very odd and you've double the chance of messing things up. 

 

I have some LNER officials which I think came to me from Nick Campling and they look to be painted in a very consistent colour with no apparent trace of graining.  That might be the approach to take.  That's how Steve Banks has done his and it looks OK to me.

 

Afternoon Jonathan,

 

you have 'LNER official photographs', how exciting, are they dated? They sound completely at odds with the builders photographs, they show a beautifully realized full fat, non railroad livery, with different toned panels, full beading and very distinctive lining (Steve confesses to omitting the beading). As the RO reported at the time, I paraphrase,'rendered in a manor that is indistinguishable from the traditional teak carriage stock'.

 

It is my understanding that the LNER never repainted them, just cleaned, touched them up and renumbered as required, rather like the BC&WW Bulleids that retained their original malachite green right the way through to withdrawal. It would be fascinating to know if the LNER repainted them in a simpler livery. Rather disappointing to those who thrive on a model railway challenge, but interesting historically. Is there any chance of seeing the images?

[jwealleans]

Good morning Andrew,

 

Please don't overexcite yourself on my account, they're only higher resolution versions of the shot in front of the Plant wall which is on Steve Banks' page.  I'll send you copies directly when I arrive home.

 

It may be the light or the quality of the scan (although the original is pin-sharp) but the teak areas look very consistent and what variations there are to my eye are down to ripples in the steel panels rather than painted variations.

 

I'm someway from painting a teak one so there's plenty of time to mull over how to do it, but I'm piqued by your observation about the LNER not repainting them - what's your source for that?  I was contemplating the Silver Link photograph yesterday as well, partly because it completely contradicts my conclusion about them not being 'teaked' in the sense we'd use it, but also because it would suggest, if you are right, that at least some were finished from building with no upper lining. 

 

My jury is still out on the faux beading as well - was that any more substantial than just shading on the conventional painted lining?  I've not seen it mentioned in any of the usual sources.

[MikeTrice]

I happened to be in the right place at the right time to spot and photograph this many, many, years ago. Vehicle was in the yard at Chappel and Wakes Colne:

[jwealleans]

What vehicle was that, Mike?  I didn't think any of the D45s made it to preservation and I wasn't aware of any Gresley steel stock having survived.

[Headstock]

Thanks for the reply Jonathan,

 

ahh, I know the photographs that you are talking about, shot on orthochromatic film, it can only record natural light at the blue end of the spectrum. Colours at the red end such as teak and red bufferbeams come out almost black.

 

The LNER were obviously still using up film stock in the late 1940's. Take a look at the Thompson RFO (not sure of number, E1989/69/99? apparently E1959) provided by Steve Banks, shot on ortho in the link below and the Thompson FO E1970 from my own collection shot on panchromatic film.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/360-lner-thompson-kitchen-and-dining-cars

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Headstock
Carriage number amendment, also my FO not RFO

[MikeTrice]

Not a D45. I think it was this vehicle which I guess was scrapped:

[Bucoops]

25 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

Not a D45. I think it was this vehicle which I guess was scrapped:

 

Is that the D198 now at Great Central?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bucoops
Is not Os....

[jwealleans]

Pleasure to see everyone at Expo EM Autumn last weekend; I hope to catch up with a few people at Shipley on Sunday.  

 

I picked up some bits and bobs which allowed me to finish these off this week.  These two didn't make the cut for Ely Show in May.  They were waiting for brass tube to make the shock absorbers and so with the addition of securing chains are now done.  The Conflat A is another built using the alternative chassis (PA16).

 

[Barry O]

I may just manage getting to Shipley on Sunday..no cricket this Sunday!

Baz

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

Pleasure to see everyone at Expo EM Autumn last weekend; I hope to catch up with a few people at Shipley on Sunday.  

 

I picked up some bits and bobs which allowed me to finish these off this week.  These two didn't make the cut for Ely Show in May.  They were waiting for brass tube to make the shock absorbers and so with the addition of securing chains are now done.  The Conflat A is another built using the alternative chassis (PA16).

 

 

These look excellent Jonathan, whose hooks and shackles did you use?

Tony

[jwealleans]

Thanks, Tony.  The hooks are Roxey (as are the little eyes which secure the rings to the containers).  The shackles are Ambis, sold for containers.  There are hooks on the Ambis etch but they're a little too small, I find.

[jwealleans]

Saw Baz Oliver at Shipley and having crossed his palm i came away with this.  Quite an old D & S kit, I think, but not lacking in quality for that.  It took me an hour and a quarter to put it together the other evening.  

 

 

I had another Parkside grain hopper for attention, this one of the ones I built for Thurston about 10 years ago.  Some of the rivet strapping had come off the roof end, so that was repaired and the roof refinished.  I removed some unsightly marks in the weathering as well.  The GW open is from the fairly recent Parkside kit now with new LMS buffers (I bet that causes confusion) and brass angle for the axlebox tie bars.

 

 

A couple of Bachmann vehicles which have had work; the ply sided van was an impulse buy at Shipley, which has just had the roof repainted, new vac pipe and matt varnish.  The grain hopper (they seem to be quite rare already) was a 1970s version, so I've removed the additional walkway and branding from the roof and repainted back to an early 1950s build.  Transfers from CCT.

 

 

This has been the main focus of activity this week, though: NuCast J6 picked up at Doncaster Show about three years ago for the princely sum of £65.  It was a finished runner in BR black, but when tested had no sideplay at all and wouldn't go round any sort of curve.  I picked up a replacement chassis at S4N this year and with that put together it went into the Nitromors.  That was when I found out that it had been glued together.  The body has now been reassembled as far as it will be until a new drive unit is fitted.

 

 

I followed Tony Wright's article in BRM (Dec 2018) for assembly as i have no instructions.  That also means, of course, that I have no idea what parts may be missing.  The cunning plan is to build an LRM one and use that as a guide.  I didn't do a great deal of fettling to the body - it had already been together and although not circular the boiler and smokebox were generally straight and central and the cab, with a bit of filler, didn't come out too badly.

 

 

I'm sure everyone knows that the tender supplied in the kit is wrong for all but one engine; the LRM replacement was started last night.  The instructions are silent on how you're supposed to attach body to frames, but I think I've worked it out.

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by jwealleans

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I'm sure everyone knows that the tender supplied in the kit is wrong for all but one engine; 

 

 

I trust the tender is right for some other useful engine?

[gr.king]

I wouldn't worry much about that.....

[JamieR4489]

6 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I'm sure everyone knows that the tender supplied in the kit is wrong for all but one engine

I thought ten J6s towed the asymmetrical wheelbase tender? If they didn't then my engine is wrong but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to change it.

 

Jamie