West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

I found they would suddenly stop displaying a temperature and then refuse to heat up.   All 3 did exactly the same thing with no warning.

 

The bits and the handle on the Ersa are much smaller so it's easier to work inside a model and yet there's more heat more quickly than the Antex.   I can't speak highly enough of it up to now.

 

I've had that trouble with squadron green as well - I prefer Milliput except for small quick jobs where mixing it up would take too long. 

[Daddyman]

23 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I found they would suddenly stop displaying a temperature and then refuse to heat up.   All 3 did exactly the same thing with no warning.

 

The bits and the handle on the Ersa are much smaller so it's easier to work inside a model and yet there's more heat more quickly than the Antex.   I can't speak highly enough of it up to now.

 

I've had that trouble with squadron green as well - I prefer Milliput except for small quick jobs where mixing it up would take too long. 

That's the issue I had too. Blown element, apparently. But as said, the issue seems to have been fixed, and Antex were helpful. But I like the sound of yours - not the price tag though... On the other hand, I think I've finally run out of kits to buy: I had acute spenditis the other day and couldn't find anything... 

 

Milliput is a pain to mix, yes, and takes even longer when you're mixing in water. But worth it in the end... 

[thegreenhowards]

Jonathan,

 

I’ve just started my D.210. I’d forgotten what a fag it is putting all the panelling into the rebates on the lower body side! But I’ve now done the BT so half way through. I’ve started putting in the drop lights with door hinges attached. I see the MRJ article on building these kits (MRJ 243) suggest removing the strip on the side of the drop light which is designed to allow one to slot in glazing. Did you do so? If not what are you using for glazing as my normal stuff (Peco point box covers) is far too thick to fit.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Edited October 20, 2020 by thegreenhowards
Typo

[jwealleans]

I use OHP film and recycled Hornby/Bachmann stock box windows.   It'll be the OHP film for this one for exactly that reason.

[Daddyman]

I asked for suggestions on glazing on the scalefour forum recently, and got some interesting replies: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7175 

(I think this is open to non-members.) 

[jwealleans]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

...the MRJ article on building these kits (MRJ 243)

 

I'd forgotten about that, thanks very much.   I've just had a leisurely read.   One or two things to check there.   I haven't had a problem fitting the roof, but he is right about slotting the sides over the flanges on the floor when you've added the bottom hinges.   I see he did what I do, solder the panelling on in the flat then bend the whole lot.   Interesting to see what the other bits on the droplights were for.  I cut them all off.  I didn't have any problem seating the roof down with all the compartment partitions in place.  I wonder whether the etch has been changed?

 

Do you have the Isinglass drawing?   After Andrew posted a picture of his set on 'WW' we had a quick exchange about it; there is a lot of furniture on the ends on the drawing which isn't on the photographs I have.  Isinglass and your man in MRJ both say that the GC sets were declassified after 1943.  Andrew reckons first class was reinstated after the unpleasantness.   None of which affects us, of course.  John doesn't show either steam heat or vac pipe either and both are quite visible.

 

My photos aren't great but they do show some sort of box on the outer composite end.  No light switches, though.  They also show the regulator box as being beyond the end of the trussing rather than where Andrew (and the etch) position it.  That may be an in service alteration.   I don't think I have room for it there anyway so it'll probably go back to back with the battery boxes.    It does look as though there was only one on the pair, but as I haven't made them yet I haven't been back for a further check yet.

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

I don’t have the isinglass drawing. I think that last time I relied on the drawing in Harris’ ‘LNER Standard Carriages’, the MRJ article and pictures of Andrew’s set. Mine will be in KX outer suburban service c.1950, so will have First Class. I will watch with interest where you put your undergubbins and probably blatantly copy you!

 

 

[Chas Levin]

On 18/10/2020 at 19:24, micklner said:

 

A rare animal , never seen one come up on ebay or any recent D&S lists so far.

 

When I was first in touch with Danny of D&S a while back I asked about this kit and he told me he wouldn't be able to reissue it because of a technical reason, damage to the etches or patterns, I think - it was a while ago. I saw a couple come up on ebay a long time ago - several years, passed on them and now regret it!

[Daddyman]

15 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

When I was first in touch with Danny of D&S a while back I asked about this kit and he told me he wouldn't be able to reissue it because of a technical reason, damage to the etches or patterns, I think - it was a while ago. I saw a couple come up on ebay a long time ago - several years, passed on them and now regret it!

I did get one of these off Dan in 2017. My dad contacted him and Dan was very keen to see it behind my model of Aerolite, and asked us to send a photo when it was done. It's true that the etch was slightly damaged - there was a slight roughness in one place on the body side, and one of the internal partitions had the panel detail imperfectly rendered, but neither flaw is visible on the finished model. 

 

At the risk of seeming sadistic, here's a photo... 

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I did get one of these off Dan in 2017. My dad contacted him and Dan was very keen to see it behind my model of Aerolite, and asked us to send a photo when it was done. It's true that the etch was slightly damaged - there was a slight roughness in one place on the body side, and one of the internal partitions had the panel detail imperfectly rendered, but neither flaw is visible on the finished model. 

 

At the risk of seeming sadistic, here's a photo... 

Haha - never fear, not sadistic! On the contrary, interesting to see. Perhaps it was his perfectly understandable and justified pride in a reputation for producing beautifully finished products that prevented him from supplying it more widely in a less than perfect condition.

As a substitute, I got an etched kit from Mousa of the M&GNJR Engineer's Saloon, currently in the to-build pile...

[Headstock]

On 20/10/2020 at 15:45, jwealleans said:

 

I'd forgotten about that, thanks very much.   I've just had a leisurely read.   One or two things to check there.   I haven't had a problem fitting the roof, but he is right about slotting the sides over the flanges on the floor when you've added the bottom hinges.   I see he did what I do, solder the panelling on in the flat then bend the whole lot.   Interesting to see what the other bits on the droplights were for.  I cut them all off.  I didn't have any problem seating the roof down with all the compartment partitions in place.  I wonder whether the etch has been changed?

 

Do you have the Isinglass drawing?   After Andrew posted a picture of his set on 'WW' we had a quick exchange about it; there is a lot of furniture on the ends on the drawing which isn't on the photographs I have.  Isinglass and your man in MRJ both say that the GC sets were declassified after 1943.  Andrew reckons first class was reinstated after the unpleasantness.   None of which affects us, of course.  John doesn't show either steam heat or vac pipe either and both are quite visible.

 

My photos aren't great but they do show some sort of box on the outer composite end.  No light switches, though.  They also show the regulator box as being beyond the end of the trussing rather than where Andrew (and the etch) position it.  That may be an in service alteration.   I don't think I have room for it there anyway so it'll probably go back to back with the battery boxes.    It does look as though there was only one on the pair, but as I haven't made them yet I haven't been back for a further check yet.

 

 

 

 

Good afternoon Jonathan,

 

a couple of things please.

 

'Andrew reckons first class was reinstated after the unpleasantness'

 

There are plenty of photographs showing first class designation on the relevant compartments in post war days. This is confirmed by the contemporary CWN's, they record the relevant first class seating arrangements.

 

'My photos aren't great but they do show some sort of box on the outer composite end'.

 

I original fitted a regulator box outside the queen post on the BT, as this appears to be the arrangement in one photo. See below, for the original location on the completed model.

 

However, on consultation with Mike Trice, I became less convinced of this arrangement. On a GA of a similar twin, the regulator box was located between the queen posts, This was supported by other photographs. Its location outside the queen posts, would have been impossible, according to the GA, due to the location of the brake pull rods which would have been fouled. I remain not 100 percent certain of the actual location. The boxes are made to be easily detached and relocated if required.

 

 'John doesn't show either steam heat or vac pipe either and both are quite visible'.

 

The arrangement of the steam heat pipe is bog standard on these carriages and is visible due to the lack of battery boxes on one side. The vac pipe seems to be more variable, its location can be devised by looking at the lean of the vac pipe upright on the ends of the carriage. The complication is that the pipe leans different ways on different carriages. I have photographs of each. Did this reflect North and South facing twins in the same set?

Edited October 22, 2020 by Headstock
add,

[jwealleans]

13 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Andrew reckons first class was reinstated after the unpleasantness'

 

Good afternoon Andrew,

 

I wasn't in any way questioning whether you were right - I simply have no pictures of these sets on the GC.  As I went on to say, this doesn't affect Andy or I anyway as ours are GNML sets.   I did note that the MRJ builder (whose name escapes me momentarily) left his unclassified.

 

On your second point, we're at cross boxes.   I haven't settled on a location for the regulator box (I need to make them first) but I did register your finding that there was only one per twin.  I was referring to the box (possibly associated with the electrical light switching) which John Edgson shows on the end of one carriage.   I'm working mainly from the Seabrook pictures of these vehicles and they aren't as sharp or clear as one might hope.  One, however, does clearly show some sort of box on the inner end of one vehicle.   It's not quite where the Isinglass drawing has it and there's certainly no switch handle attached to it, but it is there.   As it will be made of plastic, I haven't yet attached it. 

 

Your build has been very useful to me thus far as I generally start from an assumption that your model will be correct.   I shouldn't want you to think I was questioning that accuracy - if I were, I'd have done it explicitly and with evidence.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

23 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Good afternoon Andrew,

 

I wasn't in any way questioning whether you were right - I simply have no pictures of these sets on the GC.  As I went on to say, this doesn't affect Andy or I anyway as ours are GNML sets.   I did note that the MRJ builder (whose name escapes me momentarily) left his unclassified.

 

On your second point, we're at cross boxes.   I haven't settled on a location for the regulator box (I need to make them first) but I did register your finding that there was only one per twin.  I was referring to the box (possibly associated with the electrical light switching) which John Edgson shows on the end of one carriage.   I'm working mainly from the Seabrook pictures of these vehicles and they aren't as sharp or clear as one might hope.  One, however, does clearly show some sort of box on the inner end of one vehicle.   It's not quite where the Isinglass drawing has it and there's certainly no switch handle attached to it, but it is there.   As it will be made of plastic, I haven't yet attached it. 

 

Your build has been very useful to me thus far as I generally start from an assumption that your model will be correct.   I shouldn't want you to think I was questioning that accuracy - if I were, I'd have done it explicitly and with evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Afternoon Jonathan

 

I wasn't in any way questioning whether you were right.

 

I just wish to make it clear that this is not my opinion, rather fact than can be checked by anybody who wishes to do so.

 

I haven't settled on a location for the regulator box (I need to make them first) but I did register your finding that there was only one per twin.

 

Just to clarify, I could only find evidence of a regulator box on one carriage in a Dia. 210 twin, so I only fitted one, thinking I could fit a second as information became available. That's not quite the same as concluding that there was only one per twin. In fact it would not be logical to have a regulator box on one carriage and not the other*.  However, I may be mistaken about the location of that original regulator box as explained and featured above. Currently, I have adopted the standard arrangement as featured on similar diagrams of a twin and on the Mike Trice supplied GA.

 

One of the problems of spotting the regulator boxes, is that they are often set quite well back from the angle iron, further than even the battery boxes.

 

 

*Where the arrangement is crystal clear, there is always two regulator boxes, one per carriage of the twin, for each set of battery boxes.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Headstock
add info.

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Good afternoon Andrew,

 

I wasn't in any way questioning whether you were right - I simply have no pictures of these sets on the GC.  As I went on to say, this doesn't affect Andy or I anyway as ours are GNML sets.   I did note that the MRJ builder (whose name escapes me momentarily) left his unclassified.

 

On your second point, we're at cross boxes.   I haven't settled on a location for the regulator box (I need to make them first) but I did register your finding that there was only one per twin.  I was referring to the box (possibly associated with the electrical light switching) which John Edgson shows on the end of one carriage.   I'm working mainly from the Seabrook pictures of these vehicles and they aren't as sharp or clear as one might hope.  One, however, does clearly show some sort of box on the inner end of one vehicle.   It's not quite where the Isinglass drawing has it and there's certainly no switch handle attached to it, but it is there.   As it will be made of plastic, I haven't yet attached it. 

 

Your build has been very useful to me thus far as I generally start from an assumption that your model will be correct.   I shouldn't want you to think I was questioning that accuracy - if I were, I'd have done it explicitly and with evidence.

 

 

 

 

Jonathan,

 

Tim Peacock, the MRJ builder, was building for Marylebone suburban services. I don’t know whether that makes a difference with regard to declassification. I’m pretty sure that some were declassified by the late ‘50s when they had been relegated to the Hatfield- Dunstable shuttle but I think they had FC When they were still employed on KX outer suburban prior to the Mark 1s arriving.

 

Andy

[Headstock]

This is a close crop of a M D Marston photo, courtesy of David Web. It's the photo I used, that seems to show a box outside of the queen post. There is possibly a second box, to the right and in a bit, from the furthest queen post on the composite. For comparison, I include a crop of what seems to be the more typical arrangement.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Headstock
make space

[MikeTrice]

Vickers' system.

[jwealleans]

For completeness, here's the box on the end of the Composite which I referred to.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

43 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

For completeness, here's the box on the end of the Composite which I referred to.

 

 

Evening Jonathan,

 

thanks for the image. There is no switching gear on the brake end of the GC/GN East midlands allocation, as shown on the Isinglass drawing. You can just about make out the details on a couple of photographs of the other end. The box is not mounted as outboard as your example.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Headstock

[Daddyman]

17 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

That's some very nice teak! You've had the courage to keep the grain so subtle that it's almost not apparent. Brilliant!  

[jwealleans]

Almost a month without updates - it's been cold, I've had persistent toothache, a friend came in from out of town.... No they didn't, that would have been illegal.   Anyway it was back to the bench today as the rain fell.

 

First job, the twin.   This is the second of the pair, actually, which has now overtaken the first.   Mike Trice kindly sent me a drawing which I could use to scale the voltage regulator and you'll see that both have acquired them.  Other than the persistent refusal of the rainstrips to stick, these are ready for paint.  I am waiting for Dart to restock with buffers, though, so the underframes will have to wait.  I'm also short of steps for the bogies on this pair so there may be a delay before they're completely finished.

 

 

 

Some time ago I noted that Andrew Hartshorne had announced another GC wagon kit.   I had occasion to order last week so I had one and I spent a happy hour yesterday putting it together.  Final details this morning and here it is.

 

 

Something else I've had kicking around for a long time: I was given a part etch for this, I've forgotten where from or by whom.   I eventually determined it was a GNSR horsebox, which means it's by Peter K.  What you see is already more than I got, so I'll have to make strapping and the like when I've identified suitable axleboxes, buffers and so on.   With a brass floor, Comet W irons and a roof it's already looking a good deal more advanced.  

 

 

Lastly this afternoon I picked up the LRM J6, knowing it was all but complete and added the last missing details.  Given that we may be stuck as we are for several more months, it might as well be finished off and then fettled.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Almost a month without updates - it's been cold, I've had persistent toothache, a friend came in from out of town.... No they didn't, that would have been illegal.   Anyway it was back to the bench today as the rain fell.

 

First job, the twin.   This is the second of the pair, actually, which had now overtaken the first.   Mike Trice kindly sent me a drawing which I could use to scale the voltage regulator and you'll see that both have acquired them.  Other than the persistent refusal of the rainstrips to stick, these are ready for paint.  I am waiting for Dart to restock with buffers, though, so the underframes will have to wait.  I'm also short of steps for the bogies on this pair so there may be a delay before they're completely finished.

 

 

 

Some time ago I noted that Andrew Hartshorne had announced another GC wagon kit.   I had occasion to order last week so I had one and I spent a happy hour yesterday putting it together.  Final details this morning and here it is.

 

 

Something else I've had kicking around for a long time: I was given a part etch for this, I've forgotten where from or by whom.   I eventually determined it was a GNSR horsebox, which means it's by Peter K.  What you see is already more than I got, so I'll have to make strapping and the like when I've identified suitable axleboes, buffers and so on.   With a brass floor, Comet W irons and a roof it's already looking a good deal more advanced.  

 

 

Lastly this afternoon I picked up the LRM J6, knowing it was all but complete and added the last missing details.  Given that we may be stuck as we are for several more months, it might as well be finished off and then fettled.

 

 

Good evening Jonathan,

 

the battery boxes were all on the same side of the dia. 210 twin, not alternating as on some others. You have it correct on the comp but wrong side on the brake. I hope the attached image is of help.

 

 

I also have the Vickers drawing, however I am not even sure if this was the right type for 210, could be stones? I have located a probable drawing for the underframes of these carriages in the NRM, I currently don't know when I will be able to get at it though.

 

My second twin is also currently in limbo, awaiting a delivery from MJT/Dart, it seems to be taking months.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Headstock
add info, delete unwanted full stop invasion..

[jwealleans]

Good morning Andrew,

 

Thank you for that.   I'm not sure whether that's a black mark for John Edgson, for the markings on the etch, or simply my not being able to remember that things are the other way round when you're working on a vehicle upside down.   I hope I haven't managed to attach everything too firmly.

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

Thank you for that.   I'm not sure whether that's a black mark for John Edgson, for the markings on the etch, or simply my not being able to remember that things are the other way round when you're working on a vehicle upside down.   I hope I haven't managed to attach everything too firmly.

 

Morning Jonathan,

 

there are plenty of photographs of the 210s, especially around Nottingham Victoria. That allocation and the GN mainline batch would interspingle around Grantham. Unfortunately, photographs tend to concentrate on the battery box side, the other side gets far less attention and it is often difficult to tell what's going on. Linesider's, shooting on coming trains, not wishing to shoot across the tracks?

 

Some images for your consideration, some thoughts and bright red sticks.

 

The original cropped photo, with the 'box' highlighted outside of the nearest queen post.

 

 

The same on one of the GN mainline twins.

 

 

The light is catching something here. The angled support bracket is cutting through it, indicating it is beyond the far queen post.

 

 

Just in case you thought it was a light anomaly, here it is again, picked up in this photo. Incidentally, what do you know about GN twins with angle iron trussing? Note the additional upright at the mid point.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Headstock
add info

[jwealleans]

Thank you, Andrew, that's most helpful.  The only one of those I had was the shot under the viaduct at New Southgate and i believe the last time it was up for discussion we spent much more time identifying the ex-clerestory dining car and steel TOs on the bridge than looking at what was below.

 

The twin in the last picture is to D218Q and interestingly the GN diagram book , which is worse than sketchy on most underframes, clearly shows the extra vertical strut on that drawing.  I wonder whether it was some sort of experiment?

 

Edit - not the same picture at New Southgate.  The one I'm thinking of is of 4419 overtaking 4744.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Thank you, Andrew, that's most helpful.  The only one of those I had was the shot under the viaduct at New Southgate and i believe the last time it was up for discussion we spent much more time identifying the ex-clerestory dining car and steel TOs on the bridge than looking at what was below.

 

The twin in the last picture is to D218Q and interestingly the GN diagram book , which is worse than sketchy on most underframes, clearly shows the extra vertical strut on that drawing.  I wonder whether it was some sort of experiment?

 

Edit - not the same picture at New Southgate.  The one I'm thinking of is of 4419 overtaking 4744.

 

 

Evening Jonathan,

 

at least one of the D218Qs was active around the Nottingham area, probably on the Grantham-Nottingham-Derby run. In later years, it did a spell on the Annesley Dido and was quite well photographed. Unlike the dia. 210s on working 100, it didn't make it down to Leicester area or further south. Its still of passing interest though.

 

I recall that the Isinglass drawing has the wrong arrangement of battery boxes on the 210, perhaps that is from where it all originates. I know that the kit also caters for dia. 214, I am unsure if that had a different arrangement.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Headstock
change word