RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 11 hours ago, jwealleans said: I spent a little time this afternoon - it's bitterly cold here as I gather it is almost everywhere - on a couple of grain vans which I've been going to refurbish for Grantham use for a long time. One is a Parkside kit, possibly the very first one I built - it was certainly one of these, bought from the much missed R & D Models in Cambridge - while the other has a more interesting provenance. Also pretty much complete and hopefully a less controversial shade of brown No complaints here! Very nice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) On 06/02/2021 at 20:28, Headstock said: A new standard specification for a more teak coloured gloss paint, would be precured from an outside contractor. This was done in 1939 and the first recipients were the long wheelbase CCT's built in that year. My Father recalled seeing Thompson deal vans painted in this new colour scheme just after the War. That's very interesting, Andrew, thank you. One of the first NPCCS I built was the PD long CCT and I recall looking at colour photographs of one as restored at Monkwearmouth in the 1970s and taking that as a guide, on the grounds that the people who restored it would have been able to remember them, or have access to people who did. As I then did more vehicles and acquired more photographs it became apparent that there was far more inconsistency in colour and that shade was the exception rather than the rule. As an aside, I built a BZ and painted that with it and it looked so awful that I repainted it straight into crimson. Edited February 8, 2021 by jwealleans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 hours ago, jwealleans said: That's very interesting, Andrew, thank you. One of the first NPCCS I built was the PD long CCT and I recall looking at colour photographs of one as restored at Monkwearmouth in the 1970s and taking that as a guide, on the grounds that the people who restored it would have been able to remember them, or have access to people who did. As I then did more vehicles and acquired more photographs it became apparent that there was far more inconsistency in colour and that shade was the exception rather than the rule. As an aside, I built a BZ and painted that with it and it looked so awful that I repainted it straight into crimson. Good afternoon Jonathan, I forget the name of the LNER paint supplier, I think that they are still in existence and were based in Ripon. L H Loveless used them quite extensively, as they provided original paint specifications for all sorts of applications. I was told by an ex Doncaster painter, that the brown mix used on some carriages and NPC's, was a combination of wagon grey or charcoal and red oxide, later bauxite. A mix guaranteed to produce several nice shades of mud I would have thought. The story may be apocryphal, so I wouldn't take it as fact, however, it dose illustrate the DIY nature of what was being produced. In model railway land, there is a tendency for modellers to copy what other modelers or manufactures have done. You always come across as having a more thoughtful approach, that gets closer to the truth. The various paint colours of BZ's, now that's an interesting one. My Father thought the LNER painted everything in departmental traffic light sea grey! At some stage the LNER seemed to give up on what I assume was oxford blue and just left them, you guessed it, brown. Do you have any photographs of Crimson ones, I would be interested? I just found a lovely colour shot of a NE BZ, at the head of an East coast express and behind an A1, guess the colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Headstock said: Good afternoon Jonathan, I forget the name of the LNER paint supplier, I think that they are still in existence and were based in Ripon. L H Loveless used them quite extensively, as they provided original paint specifications for all sorts of applications. I was told by an ex Doncaster painter, that the brown mix used on some carriages and NPC's, was a combination of wagon grey or charcoal and red oxide, later bauxite. A mix guaranteed to produce several nice shades of mud I would have thought. The story may be apocryphal, so I wouldn't take it as fact, however, it dose illustrate the DIY nature of what was being produced. In model railway land, there is a tendency for modellers to copy what other modelers or manufactures have done. You always come across as having a more thoughtful approach, that gets closer to the truth. The various paint colours of BZ's, now that's an interesting one. My Father thought the LNER painted everything in departmental traffic light sea grey! At some stage the LNER seemed to give up on what I assume was oxford blue and just left them, you guessed it, brown. Do you have any photographs of Crimson ones, I would be interested? I just found a lovely colour shot of a NE BZ, at the head of an East coast express and behind an A1, guess the colour. http://www.trwilliamson.co.uk/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Headstock said: Do you have any photographs of Crimson ones, I would be interested? In the specific case I cited above, it was a Thompson BZ, so pictures are plentiful. I imagine you're thinking of the D171 BZ. I've done one of those in Crimson for Ely club and in that case it was based on a picture in a Peter Paye book. The caption specifically referenced the van and may also have said it was crimson. I have a feeling there are some pictures in Dave Larkin books as well. They seem to have been more popular and longer lasting than many of the pregrouping designs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jwealleans said: In the specific case I cited above, it was a Thompson BZ, so pictures are plentiful. I imagine you're thinking of the D171 BZ. I've done one of those in Crimson for Ely club and in that case it was based on a picture in a Peter Paye book. The caption specifically referenced the van and may also have said it was crimson. I have a feeling there are some pictures in Dave Larkin books as well. They seem to have been more popular and longer lasting than many of the pregrouping designs. Good evening Jonathan, it's not something that I've looked at too closely, being a bit later than my main era of interest, though I am aware of it. The impression that I get, and it's only an impression without research, is that there doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason as to what went crimson and what didn't, even amongst the same diagram of BZ. There could be a connection to vehicles that carried specific branding. There's a really good article on the NER types that was published many years back but I forget what it was published in, or who by. The NER types almost lasted for ever. There was so many of them and there geographical spread was so wide, it is fair to say that every LNER, ER/NER, ScR and many layouts of other regions could have one. Edited February 8, 2021 by Headstock add letter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thank you Andrew (and good evening), Those D 171s seem to have been popular on the LNER, they are seen all over the place. Much like the Southern vans very quickly after 1948, people seem to have hung on to them. The Framlingham branch example was used for milk traffic, so maybe there was more emphasis on keeping them in good order and a greater appearance of hygiene? When the mood takes me I'll have a flick through the Larkin NPCCS volumes and remind myself what's in there. I think I mentioned the 51L GC Loco Coal wagon not too long ago. It arrived on Friday. Pretty straightforward but one trap for the unwary - the brakes have to go on the opposite way round to usual. Unlike a Morton fitting, the lifting link goes on the same side as the brakes. I didn't spot that when I read the destructions and by the time the penny dropped they were too firmly fixed to remove without risk of destruction. So feel free to get over that pitfall by walking on my prone form.... 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) A question if I may about your "short" Gresley coaches for East Anglia, the 52'6'' type featured in the first posts on the thread back in 2007. I am in process of building a rake of these from old Kirk kits, as you did, and wonder how you did the Composite? It did occur to me that this might be a carve up of the 61'6'' Composite, bearing in mind that on the "short" version the single coupe is 2nd rather than 1st class, alternatively you might have carved up 1st and 2nd class sides from the "short" version. Many thanks in advance for your guidance. John. Edited February 12, 2021 by John Tomlinson 2007 not 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Evening John, 2007? I can't remember what I was supposed to do this morning. There was a whole thread dedicated to these which vanished in the archive at some update or other. Luckily I do seem to have taken pictures and the build ran on into my thread on the LNER forum, where you can see how I finished them off. Not having the accompanying text, I cant remember what the donor vehicle was, but if you have the sides to hand you'll be able to tell. I hope that tells you what you need to know. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Extremely useful, thanks. It is the top picture with the 61'6'' vehicle that gives the start, and that picture is not on the LNER Forum thread. I think it is the Corridor Composite, obviously with outside doors to the compartments. You made a great job of getting neat joints, and I can see from the lower pic that you reinforced inside with a strip of plasticard, which I'm sure was a very sound idea. Thanks again, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jwealleans Posted February 14, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 14, 2021 Completely vile day here today. In between picking my fence panels up from next door's garden, I braved the cold in the workshop and made this. 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Which is? looks like a circus props van or similar. richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 GN CCT. Couldn't remember the diagram number (360?) and couldn't be pestered to go back upstairs and look for it. I think the kit was DS268. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Thanks, you always seem to find kits of the esoteric which makes this thread all the more interesting. richard 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 15 hours ago, jwealleans said: Completely vile day here today. In between picking my fence panels up from next door's garden, I braved the cold in the workshop and made this. Lovely lovely, i think I might rebuild mine after seeing this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jwealleans Posted February 21, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2021 Having opened the box, you have to finish them, don't you, or they go off? Or bits get lost or pinched for other jobs. This is DS 289, which I'm told is a D360 CCT. The one last week must be a D364 on that case. To be honest, this is the one I meant to build last weekend and then opened the wrong etch. The reason for that will become apparent in the next few weeks. This one took 2 hours less than the first, partly because it was much warmer and there were fewer stops to defrost and partly because the kits are all but identical and I didn't have to think so much about what I was doing. I've also been working on grain hoppers through the week; here one has had primer, one is ready for it. The resin one has taken most of the available time. I found some spare brake gear in the parts bin which saved some effort and the rest was really just a case of looking at Tatlow. I hadn't noticed, or had forgotten, that there's only one set of end steps on the master. Easy enough to make up. The steps are very vulnerable, it'll remain to be seen how they last. I've set them behind the solebar to try to get a better key and also make them less liable to catch anything. Only the very visible door locking mechanism to add now. 17 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jwealleans Posted March 14, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) Grain hoppers are painted and awaiting transfers (on order from Powsides). In the meantime some more wagons came my way as birthday presents, so naturally I at once pulled them apart and started chopping them about.... I'd seen pictures of the Oxford rail tank wagons and been impressed as well as hearing good reports from people who's opinion I'd take seriously. I have to say these are very good. I've done very little to these except complete the lettering over the strapping and fit Smiths couplings before weathering. They come with 3 link coupling loops but these are firmly closed so you can't use them with the Smiths hooks except by cutting them. I gather the Oxford hooks are functional, but I prefer the larger Smiths version. Oxford's 7 plank minerals have been criticised in the past but they do make adequate layout vehicles and credit to them for producing liveries which no-one else seems to have done. I'd not seen this particular one before, but a set of 4 came my way. The incorrect capping strip clips have been removed, LMS buffers, Smiths couplings and renumbering. More Oxford, the Coventry Climax trailer pumps were also a nice little item which I'd seen used elsewhere. Matted down and with a dark wash they look very good. The crate by King's of Grimsby and the Colwick open which was looking for a load has been seen on these pages before. The LSWR open was in a job lot of wagons and had been scratchbuilt, probably in the 1970s if the date on another in the same lot is to be believed. The body shape was good but the brass strapping was awful - about 1.5mm wide, creased, with attempts at rivets randomly spaced and no attempt to chamfer or shape corners or joins. I did wonder about just binning it, but that goes very much against the grain so instead I repaired and reworked the bottom half and then applied a sheet as you see. It'll pass muster and can carry on running for another 40 years or however long the plastic lasts. That leads me on to the next item. One of the regular posters on the LNER forum mentioned last summer that he'd created a kit of parts for a D 358 GNR CCT using a Silhouette cutter. I've seen Rob Pulham do this in 7mm, but hadn't seen anything in 4mm which had caught my fancy before that point. Anyway, after some correspondence Joshua kindly sent me a sheet of parts and it's been awaiting my attention since shortly before Christmas. I built the D & S ones first to become familiar with the prototype as there are no instructions and I haven't yet found a picture of this particular diagram. The first photographs are of the white plastic so apologies for the lack of contrast but hopefully you'll get the idea. This is the sheet of parts as it arrived. The parts are scored into the (15 thou) sheet but need tracing round with a sharp knife then popping out. The roof was separate so I assume there's just a little too much for a single sheet. As you'd expect with plastic as thin as 15 thou, the parts all laminate together for strength. Here I've started with the easily identifiable bits, the sides and ends. To the right are the 3 layers of the sides, with a completed side on the left. Ends are above, two thicknesses to bind together. I used Limonene on all these parts and left them overnight under a weight to keep them flat. Here we're assembling the body against square blocks, again leaving 24 hours to dry at each step. The floor can be seen in the foreground, again 3 layers laminated together. Finally the body, complete and with the roof formers stuck in to add rigidity. The floor, now the right way up, is to the right. Joshua has mirrored the D & S kit by designing this to split apart at the solebar. There are floor sections in the body with cut recesses for 8BA nuts and matching holes in the floor to pass screws up and secure the two together. It's now on wheels and has been primed, but the camera decided to screw up the last photo so you'll have to stay in suspense for a while. Edited March 15, 2021 by jwealleans Correct text. 16 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2021 Commiserations on your wooden spoon - though I have to confess my vote went to the second last. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Commiserations on your wooden spoon - though I have to confess my vote went to the second last. I seem to have missed something here, I think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2021 You failed to win first prize in a beauty competition at an online exhibition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, jwealleans said: Grain hoppers are painted and awaiting transfers (on order from Powsides). In the meantime some more wagons came my way as birthday presents, so naturally I at once pulled them apart and started chopping them about.... I'd seen pictures of the Oxford rail tank wagons and been impressed as well as hearing good reports from people who's opinion I'd take seriously. I have to say these are very good. I've done very little to these except complete the lettering over the strapping and fit Smiths couplings before weathering. They come with 3 link coupling loops but these are firmly closed so you can't use them with the Smiths hooks except by cutting them. I gather the Oxford hooks are functional, but I prefer the larger Smiths version. Oxford's 7 plank minerals have been criticised in the past but they do make adequate layout vehicles and credit to them for producing liveries which no-one else seems to have done. I'd not seen this particular one before, but a set of 4 came my way. The incorrect capping strip clips have been removed, LMS buffers, Smiths couplings and renumbering. More Oxford, the Coventry Climax trailer pumps were also a nice little item which I'd seen used elsewhere. Matted down and with a dark wash they look very good. The crate by King's of Grimsby and the Colwick open which was looking for a load has been seen on these pages before. The LSWR open was in a job lot of wagons and had been scratchbuilt, probably in the 1970s if the date on another in the same lot is to be believed. The body shape was good but the brass strapping was awful - about 1.5mm wide, creased, with attempts at rivets randomly spaced and no attempt to chamfer or shape corners or joins. I did wonder about just binning it, but that goes very much against the grain so instead I repaired and reworked the bottom half and then applied a sheet as you see. It'll pass muster and can carry on running for another 40 years or however long the plastic lasts. That leads me on to the next item. One of the regular posters on the LNER forum mentioned last summer that he'd created a kit of parts for a D 358 GNR CCT using a Silhouette cutter. I've seen Rob Pulham do this in 7mm, but hadn't seen anything in 4mm which had caught my fancy before that point. Anyway, after some correspondence Joshua kindly sent me a sheet of parts and it's been awaiting my attention since shortly before Christmas. I built the D & S ones first to become familiar with the prototype as there are no instructions and I haven't yet found a picture of this particular diagram. The first photographs are of the white plastic so apologies for the lack of contrast but hopefully you'll get the idea. This is the sheet of parts as it arrived. The parts are scored into the (20 thou) sheet but need tracing round with a sharp knife then popping out. The roof was separate so I assume there's just a little too much for a single sheet. As you'd expect with plastic as thin as 20 thou, the parts all laminate together for strength. Here I've started with the easily identifiable bits, the sides and ends. To the right are the 3 layers of the sides, with a completed side on the left. Ends are above, two thicknesses to bind together. I used Limonene on all these parts and left them overnight under a weight to keep them flat. Here we're assembling the body against square blocks, again leaving 24 hours to dry at each step. The floor can be seen in the foreground, again 3 layers laminated together. Finally the body, complete and with the roof formers stuck in to add rigidity. The floor, now the right way up, is to the right. Joshua has mirrored the D & S kit by designing this to split apart at the solebar. There are floor sections in the body with cut recesses for 8BA nuts and matching holes in the floor to pass screws up and secure the two together. It's now on wheels and has been primed, but the camera decided to screw up the last photo so you'll have to stay in suspense for a while. Cracking stuff JW, the Oxford hooks work but don’t last long all mine seem to break within one turn around the layout. I replace them as they break. I’ve seen Josh’s stuff on the Facebook group, might have to send him a message! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 53 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: You failed to win first prize in a beauty competition at an online exhibition. Really? I wasn't even aware I'd entered one. I might have at least combed my hair and changed my kecks if I'd known..... 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 21 hours ago, Compound2632 said: You failed to win first prize in a beauty competition at an online exhibition. I've now had this explained to me, having been in complete ignorance of the whole thing. I have to say I'm more than flattered to be mentioned in an adjacent breath to modellers of the calibre of Keir Hardy, Dave Hall and Mikkel, not to mention Lord Wright of Bytham, of course. My thanks to whomever nominated me and those of you (I have to assume you're readers of these pages) who then voted for me. Had I known I'd have been and voted for myself as well. There are some people on that list with whom I'm not familiar, so I shall now look forward to reading and learning from their work. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2021 57 minutes ago, jwealleans said: I've now had this explained to me, having been in complete ignorance of the whole thing. It surprises me that nominations could be accepted for a competition such as this without the nominees' permission being asked. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 hours ago, jwealleans said: I've now had this explained to me, having been in complete ignorance of the whole thing. I have to say I'm more than flattered to be mentioned in an adjacent breath to modellers of the calibre of Keir Hardy, Dave Hall and Mikkel, not to mention Lord Wright of Bytham, of course. My thanks to whomever nominated me and those of you (I have to assume you're readers of these pages) who then voted for me. Had I known I'd have been and voted for myself as well. There are some people on that list with whom I'm not familiar, so I shall now look forward to reading and learning from their work. It'l be a bob to talk to your exalted self now then mate 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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