West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

2 minutes ago, Rob Pulham said:

It'll be a bob to talk to your exalted self now then mate

 

Genius.  Why didn't I think of that?

[Barry O]

don't go giving him ideas @Rob Pulham

 

Baz

[jwealleans]

I'll have the cash box ready for Warley.   In the meantime, back to more serious matters...

 

This is how it stands on its own 4 wheels at the moment:

 

 

Here's the inside so you can see the two short floor sections and the shaped recesses for 8 BA nuts.   I seem to have run out which is why there are only two here.

 

[rustynuts]

On 07/02/2021 at 20:11, jwealleans said:

I spent a little time this afternoon  - it's bitterly cold here as I gather it is almost everywhere - on a couple of grain vans which I've been going to refurbish for Grantham use for a long time.  One is a Parkside kit, possibly the very first one I built - it was certainly one of these, bought from the much missed R & D Models in Cambridge - while the other has a more interesting provenance.

 

 

Some time ago I bought a scratchbuilt grain van to the original pattern off Ebay.   It looked nicely done and wasn't expensive (this was long before lockdown).  Despite having scratchbuilt two previously i didn't have one for myself - one lives in the Ely Club shunting stock and one was a commission.  When it arrived, it was indeed pretty well made but also had a brass underframe which just pulled out.   Left with a plastic body like that, my thoughts turned at once to resin casting and my good friend and colleague Mr. King duly obliged.

 

I must have had this getting on two years and am only now doing anything with it.   It's acquired a 60 thou plastikard floor, MJT W-irons and a plastic hopper up to now.   I've then secured the floor, having put some weight inside and made solebar to body brackets.   It's had a waft of grey primer so you can see it in the photograph which also shows that it's a midge's higher than the PD one, but within what I'd call the 'tired springs' range.   I can always put Gibson or Wizard wheels into it to lower it slightly once finished.  Brakes are still to do - making them a sturdy structure may be a challenge - and buffers, which will probably be a Dave Franks GWR pattern.  For those who don't know, the LNER borrowed drawings from the GW and copied them for these vans.  I have made a GWR one and they are almost identical.  

 

I'm not sure whether or not these are currently available within the extensive King's of Grimsby range.

 

The Parkside one will have a repaint, new buffers and a general tidy up.   I've also opened up the inspection windows in the ends, which were only plated over after 1948.

 

Also pretty much complete and hopefully a less controversial shade of brown, after having brakes added this week, this Peter K GNS horsebox we saw not too long ago.   This has been fiddly and a bit of a nuisance.  I haven't been able to add all the foot steps either as the way the thing is designed would have put them out of gauge.   The strapping was all added with Evergreen strip and seems to have all but vanished in the photo.  Hopefully weathering will bring it out again, it was a long job and does appear more distinctly to the naked eye.

 

Could I ask where you get the lettering under the number from as I have a number of horse boxes to do?

 

regards

 

Paul

Edited April 29, 2021 by rustynuts
typo

[jwealleans]

Well, I do apologise, I didn't see your question and I haven't been near the thread for a while.

 

I commissioned them from John Peck at Precision Decals - they come on a sheet with 'Not to Run in the Southern Scottish Area' and possibly some CCT lettering.  The data panel is actually for a GN horsebox but there's no chance of anyone being able to read it.  I don't know whether John lists it in his range, but if you mention my name and that it was for horseboxes, I'm sure he'll be able to find it.

Edited June 1, 2021 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Where have the last couple of months gone?  Well, apart from the usual distractions, I've had a bit of a project on the go.  I decided some time ago that I needed to do something about a proper test track.  I've been spoilt up to now by having the Ormesby layouts, Grantham, Dave Scott's layout and anyone else who'll have me to run stock on.   This last 15 months, that's almost all stopped, of course, so I found myself with a backlog of stock which needed test running before it could be finished off and not much motivation to add to that backlog.   The way forward was to put together a test loop of some sort, most likely in the garage.

 

Shortly before Christmas I heard that Ely club were disposing of Ramsey, their small 4mm layout which has been doing local shows for about 10 years.  I remembered the genesis of it, before I moved away in 2006, as being a highly portable end to end layout, 4 x 4' boards which boxed into two 4' x 2' x 2' boxes, so easily transportable in an estate car.  I don't recall what year it was finished, but I operated it at an Ely show one year and found the cassette fiddle yard very frustrating.   I can't have been the only one to think that as not long after it was taken in hand and made into a roundy-roundy.

 

I thought that the two members who'd done that work and largely run the layout for the last few years would be taking it on, but then found that they'd decided to build their own.   I made enquiries, parted with a few quid and it became mine.   

 

The fiddle yard had apparently already been broken up, which initially was a disappointment until I worked out that I'd have had to build a new one anyway.   My garage is 18' long so the full 16' wouldn't fit with the original fiddle yard attached and - when I stood and looked at it - I'd be operating from what would be the public side, so the fiddle yard needed to be reversed, to curve round the 'front' of the layout rather than the back as you would for an exhibition.   Wood was cut over Christmas and the first train ran right round about a fortnight ago.

 

There's a retrospective of Ramsey under Ely MRC's ownership here.   This is what it looks like today, devoid of buildings and signals but otherwise operative.

 

 

 

The two fiddle yard boards have now gone into storage and today I was able to have a really good running and fettling session on some of the stock I put together over the end of last year and the start of this.

 

 

The D210s largely just needed one or two of the bogies fettling where they were rubbing, one or two of the underside details moving or shortening for the same reason and one set is now officially complete.   I see that Dart Castings have the MJT bogie steps back in stock, so the other should follow in fairly short order.

 

 

 

The D218K Quad set had run on Scottiedog's a couple of weeks ago but it was apparent that it needed straightening and levelling up so the carriages were nicely in line and level.  That has now been done.   

 

 

3554 itself needed a run and in fact has taken up most of the day as I found that one of the layshafts in the HL gearbox had come adrift and was causing the gearbox to jam up intermittently.  After a strip down and a new, slightly longer shaft, it's back in action.  Guard irons needed shortening, weight in the LRM tender and it can now acquire brakes, maybe sandpipes and whatever else I feel like adding.  The minerals were also recent production and in need of a run out.

 

Meanwhile, back on the workbench.... after a long hiatus, I accumulated an order for Wizard Models and that meant springs and axleboxes for the plastic CCT.  I used MT119, GWR 6' springs and NERC006, NER oil axleboxes, cutting the spring away.   They'll be near enough when painted black.   Springs were provided with the sheet of parts, but there were no J hangers so I went with the cast ones as a sturdier solution.   I found I'd then created myself another problem by using the supplied axleguards as they weren't recessed as far under the solebars as a brass set would have been, so the springs stick out.   I thought about going beck to brass ones, but for the moment I'll keep the supplied set and see how robust they turn out to be.   I can always substitute with brass if I do suffer a breakage.    Suitably inspired, I've started adding details including rivets.   I'm now waiting for another sheet as I've used all the appropriately sized ones from what i had.  This is the more or less finished side, the whole exercise needs repeating on the other.

 

 

Grain hoppers are now pretty much lettered up.  I tried the Powsides sheet again and it was no better than last time - there's no way the lettering will fit into the space available.   I may end up making my own.  

 

 

A pair of Southern cattle vans, both came to me part finished.  The piped one is ex-SECR with a particular kind of experimental braking system which clearly didn't catch on.

 

 

 

Finally a couple of Ebay acquisitions at sensible prices, something of a rarity since lockdown.

 

 

DJH C1, with Portescap, £75.   Probably didn't interest anyone because of the big hole in the firebox top where the safety valve cover has gone walkabout.   This had a run out on the Hills of the North a few weeks ago and goes very well, but the tender needed to come apart to fit a Kadee for Grantham and add pickups.   The whole thing needed a repaint, so this is where it's got to and it's now awaiting a package from Alan Gibson with handrail knobs and Ross Pops (the ones I had are way too thin).

 

 

NuCast O2, also £75.   I have one of these to build and thought this was worth it just for the price of the wheels, although it runs nicely and has tidied up pretty well.   The builder obviously didn't solder unless he had no choice, so I've removed a lot of glue and he seems to have had a disaster where the footplate sections join, so there'll be a bit of heavy weathering going on there.  This one's waiting for tender frames, again from AG, to improve the running and let me fit pickups.  I was planning a new motor, but it's gone round the test track nicely so we may get away without.

Edited June 21, 2021 by jwealleans

[Nick Holliday]

3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

A pair of Southern cattle vans, both came to me part finished.  The piped one is ex-SECR with a particular kind of experimental braking system which clearly didn't catch on.

 

 

The brake gear is Hills Either Side. Not exactly experimental as it was used fairly extensively by the SECR in a number of iterations, for about ten years, from around the turn of the century.  It turned up on all sorts of wagons, including opens and vans, and the recent Rails' SECR van has this gear fitted.

[jwealleans]

Thank you, Nick.     You're quite right, Danny describes it as 'patent brake'.

 

Why did the SECR persist with it when (as far as I know) no other railways did much (or anything) with it.  Was he a friend of one of the directors?

 

Or was it very widespread and I've somehow missed ever hearing of it?

[Compound2632]

There's a snippet here.

[thegreenhowards]

Jonathan, I watched the video and it looks like a nice layout. Have you acquired the buildings and signals as well and do you intend to exhibit it?

 

The three way point entering the fiddle yard straight off the curve looks a bit hairy. That will make a good stock test!

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

[jwealleans]

Morning Andy,

 

The cassettes were my only problem with it from an operating point of view and so once it had a full yard and through running it really transformed it.   As you can see, I can only operate the yard from one end without the left hand board which had the other end of the run round, so it's a bit more limited as it is now.

 

I do have the buildings and signals from the 1950s version, I didn't take the modern image buildings and colour lights, so in theory once the replacement yard is built then it could be exhibited and i certainly haven't done anything to prevent that as a future option. 

 

Up to now I haven't had a problem with the 3 way point (it's not a high speed layout with my dodgy track joints), but the others have upset the odd loco.  They're reclaimed Code 100 from the 1970s so I'm going to try Mr. King's trick of closing up some of the check rail gaps with 10 thou plastic strip.   Whisper it, but it's primarily one of Sir's locos which has the problem, although he'd at once point out that it's a rewheeled Bachmann chassis, not his own.

Edited June 21, 2021 by jwealleans

[Nick Holliday]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Thank you, Nick.     You're quite right, Danny describes it as 'patent brake'.

 

Why did the SECR persist with it when (as far as I know) no other railways did much (or anything) with it.  Was he a friend of one of the directors?

 

Or was it very widespread and I've somehow missed ever hearing of it?

As per the @Compound2632 reference, the brand name "Invicta" certainly suggests a Kentish connection. Within the HMRS collection there are three patents, for couplings and sheet rails, under the name E J Hills listed under SE&CR.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Nick Holliday
HMRS patents added

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

As per the @Compound2632 reference, the brand name "Invicta" certainly suggests a Kentish connection. Within the HMRS collection there are three patents, for couplings and sheet rails, under the name E J Hills listed under SE&CR.

 

So presumably Hill was an Ashford employee and the SECR didn't have to pay royalties.

[Asterix2012]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

So presumably Hill was an Ashford employee and the SECR didn't have to pay royalties.

The article mentions trials with 3 railway companies any ideas about the other 2?

[jwealleans]

Bit of testing tonight, so you get to see the layout again.   J6 3554 with a short parcels/sundries working.

 

 

There's a bit of a backstory to this.   I set off to do this running on Wednesday evening, but it was one of those nights where everything I touched fell apart, so this is the first time it's all been in a state to try to run again.

 

 

I've been adding the final details to the loco, sand pipes, brake gear and the like.   It's run round there a few times before, but on Wednesday it suddenly locked solid.  On examination it had unscrewed a crankpin and gone out of quarter.   All replaced and the rod straightened and it behaved this evening.  

 

 

The GNSR horsebox.   This was the other main miscreant on Wednesday - although it ran fairly freely, with the lights off it was a one man Guy Fawkes display.  I did have my suspicions, but I did also think I'd tested it before.   Anyway it's had some brutal surgery underneath and now runs nicely and with no pyrotechnics.   Oddly the 3 suspension units are all the same, but only two have needed hacking to this extent.   I can't even blame Hornby wheels, they're the fairly finescale ones from Wizard.   

 

 

 

 

The 3 GN CCTs.  This is really to show how well Joshua's plastic one blends with the two from Danny.   It's repaid the work put into it, I think and I do like the small variations between them.  For those who can't tell, the plastic one is the middle one of the three and before anyone mentions it yes it does have the same number as the one next to it.   It's the D & S one which I've managed to get wrong.  One number either side would have been fine.   I'll do that this week.

 

 

D375 OCT with a Riley Monaco load.   I don't believe I've ever seen a Riley Monaco, but I did like the colour scheme.

 

 

NER horsebox.   The one with the sensible roof.

 

Finally a query.  I started a D & S NER D18 BT(3) today.   Instead of the usual bogies I found these compensated items:

 

 

 

Has anyone used these before and do they have any hints about assembling/adjusting them?   So far I think they're an awful idea - although they do what they're supposed to, they create no end of drag on the axles, despite filing the beams nicely flat and then to an edge.  They also completely conceal the fixing/pivot (which is a rivet, for some reason), so they have to be attached before final assembly and then stay on the floor through the rest of the build.   They are now impossible to remove non-destructively which also makes getting the body screws in and out a work of contortion.  I may end up pushing the bearings to the bottom of their travel and soldering them solid, but I will give them a test first.

 

I think this is a very old kit, from the state of the brass, so this may be an idea Danny tried then dropped.   Any information welcome.

Edited August 9, 2021 by jwealleans

[Paul Cram]

Yes these are the original Scalefour design and were in Danny's  original kits. I have a couple of coaches made with these. I screwed the bogies to the floor after fixing the floor to the body.

[Barry O]

I had one like that under one end of an MTK Derby Single unit. It works but it is fairly draggy even with some silicone  grease on the axles.

 

Baz

[Nick Holliday]

9 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Has anyone used these before and do they have any hints about assembling/adjusting them?   So far I think they're an awful idea - although they do what they're supposed to, they create no end of drag on the axles, despite filing the beams nicely flat and then to an edge.  They also completely conceal the fixing/pivot (which is a rivet, for some reason), so they have to be attached before final assembly and then stay on the floor through the rest of the build.   They are now impossible to remove non-destructively which also makes getting the body screws in and out a work of contortion.  I may end up pushing the bearings to the bottom of their travel and soldering them solid, but I will give them a test first.

Would it improve matters if you fitted a length of thin 2mm internal diameter tubing on the axles? You would have to adjust the height, but it might (?) reduce the friction, especially if you could use PTFE, and it would ease lubrication.

[jwealleans]

That would almost certainly help, but it's another component in an already unnecessarily complex solution for a problem I didn't have.

[Paul Cram]

Would replacing the end of the beams woth a piece of rod to bear of the axles improve things?

[gr.king]

I was going to mention axle tubes and magic fluid, but I see that suggestion won't really help.

 

I have no idea of how they are put together, but those offset holes in the "kidney" apertures suggest some sort of implied invitation to make your own detachable screw-mounting system.

[Chas Levin]

Sorry I can't offer advice on the bogie question, but the J6 and parcels/sundries look lovely!

Edited August 9, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Portchullin Tatty]

Jonathan

 

As others have said, the design is like the Scalefour Society's compensation units at the time.  Unfortunately, they did introduce a load of drag which was fine for a coach or two, but for a whole train, it just didn't work.

 

It is in part why I developed some sprung Fox bogies https://miscellanymodels.com/future-plans-and-dreams/fully-sprung-fox-bogies/.   These are a lot more effort than those you have, but they do glide when in use so they make the coach look realistically heavy.  This shows it under construction https://highlandmiscellany.com/2018/04/01/dia-51-test-build-fox-heavyweight-bogies/

 

The D&S kits normally come with a fixed bogie.  I now routinely throw this away to fit my own design.  If you can wait a week or so (I am on hols at the moment) I can easily post a set to you as I do have a NER coach to do soon.   PM me if this is of interest.

 

Alternatively, you will need to acquire either the Bill Bedford sprung bogies or those produced by Brassmasters.  They are only the functional innards of the bogie, so you will have to sweat the D&S frames on to get a sensible Fox Bogie.

[jwealleans]

A very generous offer, Mark.   I'll be in touch.  

[Daddyman]

2 hours ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

The D&S kits normally come with a fixed bogie.  I now routinely throw this away to fit my own design.  If you can wait a week or so (I am on hols at the moment) I can easily post a set to you as I do have a NER coach to do soon.   PM me if this is of interest.

 

Alternatively, you will need to acquire either the Bill Bedford sprung bogies or those produced by Brassmasters.  They are only the functional innards of the bogie, so you will have to sweat the D&S frames on to get a sensible Fox Bogie.

Mark's bogies are the only ones I use for Fox, Jonathan. All versions of D&S bogies go straight in the bin. There are one or two places where I've had to go off-piste on Mark's instructions (I can provide pointers if you wish), and you'll need to keep the D&S spring/axlebox and bolster castings. Here they are with my own resin springs: 

 

 

I wouldn't recommend using any system that consists in putting a thick W/M frame on to an etched innards as the bogies will end up too wide, which will play havoc with your footboard supports, if you're fitting any. I found that out the hard way....