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Morning Jamie,

 

The comment was slightly tongue in cheek - tender allocations on these locos are not easy to work out, especially in the earlier years.  i don't have the Greenie either, which would probably afford the most help.  It was Sir who commented that in his period there was only one loco with Type B tender.  Yeadon is silent on 3591, but if you've gone from photographs you can't be far wrong.

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Ah right. In Sir’s article it gives a list of engines that towed the tender provided in the kit but it only gives the BR numbers. I worked from 3 photos for 3591 and all of them showed an asymmetrical wheelbase tender. I borrowed the green bible volume from a club member but I don’t remember it giving much detail on tender allocations.

 

Jamie

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RCTS Pt 5 states mostly 3140 & 3170 gal tenders after 1923 and some with slightly older 3280 gal tenders from the early 4-4-0s, all these being class A (flat bottom tank) with equally divided wheelbase, but then there's mention of self-trimming 3000 gal class A, either twenty with equally divided wheelbase or thirty with unequal spacing, all built before 1907 and no specific indication of whether any / many were paired with J6s. The word mostly of course doesn't exclude the possibility that other types saw use, and given that in 4mm model form the existence or lack of well-tank is likely to be a matter for the imagination, the distinction between the class A tenders and the class B with at least 3500 gal has to rely on other features, such as the length of the coal rails (and maybe the positions of the tool boxes) which you can often see in photographs, and the shape of the tender front plate, the bunker and the water filler etc which you often cannot see at all! Given that tenders were swapped for convenience when locos went for repair and the added possibility that tenders were sometimes repaired or partly reconstructed over the course of time in accordance with later standards or using later patterns of parts, I think you might be able to argue a case for a GNR tender with an unusual combination of features behind a pre-WW2 J6, especially if the bunker is hidden under coal.

 

At the end of the J6 era the book appears to list 21 J6s with unequal wheelbase class A 3000 gal tenders and mentions 64190 having a 3500 gal class B acquired from Atlantic 4444 in 1946.

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The GNRS tome on tenders shows 3591 as towing tender 5013 from 14-3-31 to 06-11-36, then 392 from 05-12-36 to 31-10-41, then 5009 from 13-12-41 to 01-08-60 (which I assume is withdrawal). 

 

They're all Type A - 392 is an equal wheelbase tender with water scoop built in the latter half of 1900.  The other two are unequal wheelbase from the two batches built in the latter half of 1906.

 

There's more information available than I thought.

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Apologies if you were awaiting further tender updates, I had to shift to some other jobs which need finishing off.  There has been some progress, though:

 

LRM-horseshoe-tender-3.jpg

 

Flare, coal rails, guard irons and some Milliput to make good the corner.  The curve is formed with a set of fingers which you flood with solder and then use filler to form the final shape.

 

LRM-horseshoe-tender-2.jpg

 

The vexed question of the front.  I mainly relied on Rob Pulham's photos here and not having found a picture of 3554 as yet I haven't proceeded with toolboxes and the like.  It may end up being an (un)educated guess.

 

DS-GC-van-Hrnby-sr-horsebox.jpg

 

GE van has been painted and is almost ready for lettering.  The Hornby SR cattle wagon is a nice model - i found this one cheap somewhere (can't recall where now) but it doesn't seem to be terribly widely available, so I assume it's sold well.  

 

Jidenco-gc-15ft-van.jpg

 

This was a major distraction once my attention wandered onto it - Jidenco, I assume and one of a job lot I acquired last year.  It had been nicely made but was scruffy and when it went into the paint stripper it turned out to be another glued construction.  It's now been soldered up, brake gear from MJT and I've made a start on putting the brass bits back on.  Much of the side detail is made up in plastic and so vanished in the stripper.  I see a couple of evenings fiddling with tiny bits of Evergreen and Archer rivets ahead.

Edited by jwealleans
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At least the correct small-script legend for the side of that long van appears on the HMRS sheets for LNER goods vehicles.

 

A horsebox for film-unit horses? I'm sure I remember an episode of a famous comedy series in which the caricature of a film director was explaining that cows were used to represent horses during filming, because they looked more like horses on the big screen.

Edited by gr.king
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As we're into October already, a slight thread diversion to mention that I shall be demonstrating wagon building at Hartlepool Show on the 19th and 20th.  My colleague Mr. King of this parish (above) will also be there demonstrating resin casting.

 

We are due to make a repeat appearance at Warley on the 23rd and 24th of November.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tenders aside, I've been working on wagons this week.  Jidenco GC van making progress:

 

Jidenco-GC-van-2.jpg

 

Unfortunately there's a chip out of the roof so I'm going to have to replace it.  

 

This was a job from Ely Show - part of the club shunting stock but not very well built.  The footsteps were incomplete, the handrails were all wrong and the inner ends had been scratchbuilt for some reason.  No-one seems to know who put it together.  I've remade the footsteps out of brass as they will need to be sturdier than the plastic originals.  The handrail holes still look a bit messy but once painted and weathered it'll do a job on the layout.

 

PD-Toad-D-1.jpg

 

It still needs handrails on the other side.  You can only do so many in one day.

 

Finally I shall have this on the stand at Hartlepool: Conflat V and A type container, both by Graeme King.  I made the master for the conflat, the container is by Caroline Middleditch of this parish.  The conflat was put together at Warley last year and stalled awaiting suitable lettering.  I found one picture of a very grubby example labelled 'conflat' recently, most of the others seem to have carried 'Container Flat' and also been lettered in a Gill Sans script which I'll need to try to make up myself, I suspect.

 

GK-conflat-V-1.jpg

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It was nice to get chance for a quick chat at Hartlepool, and to see some of the subjects of your workbench up close and in the flesh (plastic/whitemetal/brass!). I suspect I'll be back into my own wagon production line once I've put all narrow gauge bits away from the weekend!

 

I really should sort out some sort of steam based shunting layout so I can play with them too!

 

Cheers

 

J

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It was a pleasure to speak to a number of members and put faces to names over the weekend.  Thank you to everyone who took the time to stop and have a word. 

 

MCG-D45-finished-1.jpg

 

MCG-D45-finished-2.jpg

 

I took the opportunity at Hartlepool to photograph the completed prototype D45 BG on Shap.  Ian is undertaking at least one more test build before the kit is available.

Edited by jwealleans
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 19/11/2019 at 10:38, jwealleans said:

As Mr. King has reminded me, I shall be at Warley this weekend messing about with wagons.   Please do call by if you fancy a chat or need a sit down.  Stand A86, handy for the Gents.

Anything particular on the go at the moment?

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hah.  So much for modelling - I've spent most of the last two weeks nursing a nasty virus and feeling sorry for myself.  What a waste of the time off.  I hope everyone else had a better festive break.   I'm on the mend now, just about in time to go back to work.

 

It is, of course, this time of year so there's been a wave of southern motive power across the bench for servicing when I've felt up to it.

 

corfe-locos-small.jpg

 

Before I started feeling really bad I had dismantled and rebuilt this D & S Howlden.  I collected this at Expo Spoons in May.  It had been nicely built and painted, but was without bogies, glued together and the glue was starting to fail.  It had to come apart and has now been built properly.  Bogies from Dart Castings and I've reinstated or added additional details which had been missed or fallen off.

 

DS-Howlden-D129-small.jpg

 

It needs a final clean and the roof reattaching then it'll be ready for paint.

 

I have forced myself to get on with this year's Christmas project - usually I decide I'll try to build something and then end up spending the time on something completely different.  Given the way I've coughed and spluttered over it for the last 10 days or so it's probably the most unhygienic piece of rolling stock I've built, but built it (largely) is.  

 

DS-D218-H-2.jpg

 

DS-D218-H-1.jpg

 

GNR D 218H quad set, BT(4) - C - C - BT(4).  This is a candidate for use on Grantham, although I don't expect to have it ready for Southampton.  It may well come with us for testing.   I'm on the second pass down the vehicles adding detail, so progress seems slow again but we're getting there.

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I feel your pain. 

I too have been under the weather since work finished, it will clear just in time to go back in January. The body probably fights it at work and then you relax for the holiday and the body lets it’s defenses down.

i am also building a four coach set and the feeling you get at the start of fitting a piece, realizing that you have 32 of them to fit. 

Next set will be six coaches. We must need our heads examined.  I understand why some just build the locos and buy the coaches rtr. Alas not possible for what we model. 

Richard 

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Small update to close the year; I did some repairs and odd jobs today.  First up, a Hornby A3 from Ormesby.  This is the kind of thing which happens when you have different people with different skill levels operating and using stock.  No-one ever knows how it happens or admits to it, but it happens anyway.  In this case it's either been dropped or picked up wrongly and the slidebar has either bent or the crosshead has popped out.  I suspect the real damage was done trying to either straighten the slidebars or reinstate the crosshead.   Luckily we have Peters Spares on the doorstep.

 

2569-repair-small.jpg

 

This Parkside coal wagon from the Grantham stock had a plastic W iron which has weakened and was allowing the wheelset to drop out.  I can't recall now whether I built this one or it was acquired built.  I suspect the latter as the other end W iron had already been replaced.  I've fitted a rocking unit to this end, which has meant a hole in the floor and a new floor on top of the Parkside one to sit the wagon level.   It will have to run loaded.  Here I'm using the Brassmasters axle jig to keep the refitted wheelset square.

 

SC-20736-repair.jpg

 

Finally a trio of LMS vans - but two of them are Doncaster products.  These are D2079 vans, built during the war for the LMS and remaining in their stock after 1948.   Bachmann bodies on Parkside PA16 underframes.   I did wonder about using RCH axleguards instead of the LMS/BR pattern, but two of the 3 photos I had showed these, so I went with the majority.  This was another build I started as part of a demonstration.  

 

Bach-D2079-small.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Been about a month of coughing and streaming, but I do seem to be on the mend now.   Just as well as we have a long trip before us... Grantham is appearing at Southampton this approaching weekend, so it was time to reacquaint myself with the stock.

 

A day cleaning wheels isn't the most exciting subject for photography, but I also had the fault list to attend to.   It's not often you have the time or facilities to fix things at a show and in the stygian gloom of Spalding it was even less likely, so there were a few items on the list.

 

In no real order except that in which I found them in the boxes, here they are.

 

Bach-J11-6049-small.jpg

 

I had a report that the Kadee on 6049 might be low.  These can droop - Hornby tender locos are quite prone to this but a piece of 20 thou strip jammed into the NEM pocket usually cures it.  I'm not convinced 6049 was the culprit here, but it's been treated anyway.   The bodyshell on this loco is still weeping oil, so it will have to be reweathered at some future date.

 

DJH-A2-small.jpg

 

2403, I was told, had leapt into the air and stopped half way down a ladder of points at the north end and been immediately taken off.   The culprit here was the leading tender brake shoe and rigging which had become unsoldered and found their way outside the frames, there to foul something trackside.  Repairing this reminded me of the downside of securing nuts with huge blobs of Araldite - no matter how carefully you clean the thread before removing, there's always enough left to bind the thread and snap the bolt.  I might add that it wasn't me who created the problem.   I've been saying for several years that I will repaint this loco and substitute the NER tender which I have already built and painted.  Maybe this will be the time.

 

DJH-C1-3275-small.jpg

 

3275 was arcing off the bogie wheels intermittently.   Examination shows that the (Comet) bogie had shed one of the fore and aft wires which retains the axles, so I assume it was able to move excessively and contact frames or cylinders.    It has been restrained and we'll see how it gets on.

 

Ks-J3-4051-small.jpg

 

4151 didn't have anything wrong with it, but when I was cleaning the wheels I noticed that the lamp irons I've been fitting since the very first show in 2013 still weren't there.  Today has been the day and by the end of the week there should be a proper coal load and maybe even fire irons as well.

 

Nu-Cast-Q1-3416-small.jpg

 

This is Long Tom 3416 which has a history of wrapping the tender pickups around things.  They are long and vulnerable - the latest attempt is in a more rigid wire which may be less prone to catching.   Again, time and use will tell.

 

DS-GE-Lowmac-small.jpg

 

The South End boys complained that this Lowmac (D & S with a scratchbuilt load) was too light and hard to shunt.   It's had some strategically applied lead flashing which has since been painted.  I don't like uncovered lead on vehicles.

 

RDEB-BFK-end-door.jpg

 

This is the GNR D96 BFK which runs at the rear of Set 5.  I had a note that the tail lamp was missing, but the end door cover had been knocked off as well.   Both were in the box and  easily reapplied.   The cover is the MJT etch, the lamp one of John Marsh's lovely 3D prints (which may now be in the ModelU range).

 

BB-D7-small.jpg

 

This was a more involved problem.   We had noticed that we seemed to have an intermittent short on Set 5 in one configuration and by leaving vehicles out had narrowed it down to the last two in the set.   This is a D7 CK, from a Bill Bedford kit.  Examining the underside it was at once apparent that the MJT bogie had gone past the stops and jammed.  For those who aren't familiar with them, the two halves of the bogie can move about the central wire, giving excellent running and roadholding.  There are tabs to prevent them going too far (more or less behind the axles in the picture) and the bogies can force their way past these and jam.  This had happened, but the displacement wasn't enough to stop the carriage running.   What it almost certainly did, though, was jam one wheel from each side against the brass floor, so completing a circuit and impeding the running.   There were score marks on the floor where the wheels had rubbed before, so some black paper has been stuck over the contact areas to prevent future conductivity.

 

Finally and not for Grantham, what little tinkering I have had the energy or inclination to do has been with wagons.   This is one of my demonstration pieces.  I had acquired four (I think) Ratio Macaws more or less by accident in different job lots, so I decided to see what I could do with them.   I appreciate they're not completely accurate, but they can scrub up into a nice looking wagon.  On my show stand I have one 'as found', a repainted one then a weathered and loaded one, so people can see that you can pick up a wagon for a couple of quid out of a rummage bin and use it to practice on but still have the potential to make something which looks good on your layout.

 

ratio-macaw-small.jpg

 

I hope some readers will be able to make Southampton - please make yourself known if you do, but remember that we do have to run the layout and can't always spare the time to chat there and then.

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