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Well thank you for your kind words.  Tony, I spend far too much time looking at Ebay, usually when having my lunch.  If it weren't for lockdown sending prices spiralling way beyond funny farm territory for most of the last year I'd probably have even more unbuilt kits than I do.

 

Andy, I don't recall having spare footboards - you aren't looking at the flanges for the top of the sides, are you?  I generally rest then along a piece of wood (skirting board at the moment) and solder out from the centre trying to keep then as flat and straight as possible.   Some of mine are not beyond reproach as you'll see when the vehicles make their appearance.  I can only finish one pair, I'm short of bogie footsteps and guards door handles so it'll be back to Dart Castings this week.  While I think of it, did you have enough droplights?  I think I was four short.

 

Some more wagons limping over the finish line tonight.  Job lots often contain one or two mineral wagons of varied parentage, so here are a selection relocated to the Nottingham coalfields (or passing through Colwick at least).

 

manvers.jpg

 

denaby-shirebrook.jpg

 

I think one of the essential sights of the prewar steam railway is a procession of minerals of different heights and sizes meandering on their unhurried way to more or less everywhere.  Different sizes of wagons make the trains much more visually interesting than a string of 16 tonners, however varied the detail on the latter may be.   Here the Cambrian Hurst Nelson (I think) from Shirebrook sits between two repainted Bachmann 8 plankers.   I'll never grow to love Powsides transfers, but I do feel that I can tackle them on equal terms these days.

 

There's one more of these to finish, it having been delayed by my breaking an axleguard off when fitting the base for the load.

Edited by jwealleans
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Jonathan,

 

I couldn’t answer immediately on the droplights as it was their fitting which drove me mad before Christmas and caused the kit to be put away. However, you spurred me on to fit the BT this morning and I seem to have exactly the right number of droplights. I found the door hinges attached to the drop lights were pretty useless and I had the file them all down to fit through the etched holes in the bodyside. Many fell off in the process - a right pain in the neck!

 

As for stepboards, this is what I’m using with six left on the etch after fitting two. Have I got this wrong?

 

8B272350-5B12-41B1-8BB9-84A899DAF067.jpeg.5ec4403f35af1118757511e309ce281c.jpeg

 

Andy

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Those look like the ones, Andy.  I may have filed the spares into the appropriate box. 

 

I didn't have that issue with the hinges, they were fairly easy to do.  I only realised afterwards that because I was using the hinges all my droplights were closed and had to put a few open ones into the last bits I did.

 

The flange to hold the glazing in only worked some of the time as well - I will file it off next time.

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On 31/01/2021 at 19:05, jwealleans said:

DS-NE-horsebox-small.jpg

I haven't seen one that colour before, Jonathan - though I'm sure you know what you're doing! I've always gone with Precision teak, as per these two on Pendon (GW loco carefully photoshopped out to avoid causing offence). 

 

Am I wrong in using teak? (Could well be!) 

20170611_134658.jpg

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Morning David,

 

I've always regarded NPCCS brown as a bit of a moveable feast; Dan Pinnock describes it as close to Humbrol 133, while Peter Tatlow suggests Triumph Russet Brown.   In this case it's 62 with a spot of black - more than might have been intended but I wasn't displeased with the colour. 

 

In LNER Locomotives in Colour, on the page with the well known shot of the green C7 with the black splasher, look at the colour of the D171 in the picture above.   Not an accident of film emulsion either, there are several carriages on there (which are also all different shades of teak).   Later in the book there's a D20 at Wakefield with a GE XB behind it and that's almost black.   Having each vehicle a slightly different colour, for me, makes a train visually more interesting and I don't think is too far from the actuality.

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Its a similar colour to what Steve Banks has used as well on his website, and has also posted pictures of 'in real life' - perhaps what you're referring to in your book, Jonathan?

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/131-gcr-lner-horse-box

 

He does have a picture of a horsebox in colour, nestling behind a loco, but I can't find it ATM.

 

I've got an almost identical horsebox, from a D&S kit that I'm just finishing, and I'll be going for a similar shade - more for variety than anything else :)

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You're right of course, about the variations in shade, Jonathan. I can't explain how the D171 you mention ended up so dark in that photo as the colour rendering in the rest of the photo looks decidedly iffy - too orange. The van at Wakefield is a different matter as it's clearly covered in soot and brake dust, which explains the dark colour. There's a horsebox peeping into the shot on p.10 which looks like Humbrol gloss tan or Precision teak, and some carriages in the background of the monstrosity on p.54 which look close to Precision. 

  

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1 minute ago, grob1234 said:

Its a similar colour to what Steve Banks has used as well on his website, and has also posted pictures of 'in real life' - perhaps what you're referring to in your book, Jonathan?

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/131-gcr-lner-horse-box

 

He does have a picture of a horsebox in colour, nestling behind a loco, but I can't find it ATM.

 

I've got an almost identical horsebox, from a D&S kit that I'm just finishing, and I'll be going for a similar shade - more for variety than anything else :)

Yes, but note that one of Steve's vehicles on that page is much closer to Humbrol 9 or Precision teak - as are his other NPCCs. 

 

I'd just question whether a vehicle can get that dark in the ex-works condition he depicts the vehicle in. Aren't we looking at paint which has darkened with age, meaning that the rest of the vehicle would have deteriorated to the same extent - there'd at least be muck in the panel joints, and brake dust on the underframe.   

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3 minutes ago, grob1234 said:

Ah heres the photo scroll down to the pacific 2548 its there:

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/133-teak-coaches#close

I see what you mean, and the photo provides compelling evidence, but I still think there is so much weathering there that the paintwork could be any colour.

 

But I think I will add some black to the teak on the odd vehicle - while also making sure that the weathering is consistent with darkened paint being depicted. 

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Well done, Tom - that horsebox was in my mind, but I'd transposed it into the C7 photo I referenced earlier. 

 

The colour on the BG behind the V2 on that page is quite striking as well, isn't it?   I don't think that picture was on the page the last time I looked at it.

 

Heavy weathering will of course be in order.

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So for me, its about the 'tone' of the brown. 

 

The cleaner box on the right (look at the roof too) is more of an ex works colour IMO. The one on the left is definitely grubbier.

 

I'm not sure the 'yellower' teak version somtimes modelled, would weather down to either of the colours in the photo....

 

Quote

The colour on the BG behind the V2 on that page is quite striking as well, isn't it?

 

Yes - gives justification for my pigeon van which is decideedly dark!

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On 31/01/2021 at 19:05, jwealleans said:

Some more items cleared off the bench this evening.

 

The first D210 twin is now complete and ready to be run in.  There's a wheel dragging somewhere but I can't pin it down - twenty minutes round a layout should leave enough of a mark to find it.  The second one is awaiting bogie footsteps which I have to order from Dart.

 

D210-twin-complete-small.jpg

 

This has been hanging around for a while.  Another job lot buy, not what I bought the job lot for as I recall but a bonus win, a D & S NE D67 horsebox.  It was incomplete and came with no bits, so I've had to find or make the missing brake gear, one lot of door dampers and other bits and bobs.   The buffers and axleboxes were all present and correct, that's usually the trickiest bit.   The Powsides lettering I was using up made a bid for freedom as well, but that'll tidy up and weather over.

 

DS-NE-horsebox-small.jpg

 

All tonight's wagons were from the Christmas ebay job lot and I remembered that I'd downloaded the photos to make sure of what was included.   So here are some before and after shots.  Firstly, the last of the PO minerals, now with MJT W iron and a brass brake lever after I broke that as well.   It's been relocated much further north.

 

slaters-manvers-small.jpg

 

slater-open-ebay.jpg

 

North British van - I thought this was Kirk, but it must be NuCast or Cotswold as it has whitemetal solebars and headstocks.

 

kirk-nb-van-small.jpg

 

nb-wagon-ebay.jpg

 

Lastly a 3H open.   I knew this was a bit rough, but wasn't too bothered either way.  The corners never tidied up enough to be satisfactory, so a tarp was the obvious answer.

 

3-H-LNE-open-small.jpg

 

3h-open-ebay.jpg

I like the D67 horsebox.  I have one in the drawer to build sometime, along with a couple of the other NER design that D&S did (the one with the funny roof (as seen on the left in Daddyman's picture above) was it D196? - all my railway stuff is inaccessible at the moment due to some building work going on at the house).  However, do you know how long the D67s lasted?  I seem to remember that the D&S instructions aren't conclusive about dates.  I know the D196s lasted well into BR (my period of interest is just after Nationalisation), but I don't recall ever seeing a photo of a D67 at work.  Frustratingly, the recent Hugh Longworth book doesn't include ex-NER horseboxes (whilst it does include horseboxes from some of the other constituent companies).  So, I'd be interested on any information/photos  showing D67s if any one can help.

Thanks.

 

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18 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

I like the D67 horsebox.  I have one in the drawer to build sometime, along with a couple of the other NER design that D&S did (the one with the funny roof (as seen on the left in Daddyman's picture above) was it D196? - all my railway stuff is inaccessible at the moment due to some building work going on at the house).  However, do you know how long the D67s lasted?  I seem to remember that the D&S instructions aren't conclusive about dates.  I know the D196s lasted well into BR (my period of interest is just after Nationalisation), but I don't recall ever seeing a photo of a D67 at work.  Frustratingly, the recent Hugh Longworth book doesn't include ex-NER horseboxes (whilst it does include horseboxes from some of the other constituent companies).  So, I'd be interested on any information/photos  showing D67s if any one can help.

Thanks.

 

I've always thought this was a D67, but now am not so sure as it lacks the springs for the doors; on the other hand, it doesn't look like it's an LNER standard one, given the position of the strapping. It's on a train that has come off the BK&StB line (and thus through Coldstream), hauled by a 2MT in 1962. It's an enlargement of part of a photo on p.31 of Border Country Branch Line Album, which I'm sure you have, Tim. It seems to have lost the large vents on the roof. On the subject of which, are your vents right, Jonathan? 

20171020_212145.jpg

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47 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

are your vents right, Jonathan? 

 

I worked from the blue Tatlow when I did them; I think that's the only D67 drawing I have unless I dig a set of Danny's instructions out.  

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2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

I worked from the blue Tatlow when I did them; I think that's the only D67 drawing I have unless I dig a set of Danny's instructions out.  

This is the box image, Jonathan. I'd always assumed they were the bigger, round vents, rather than the low-profile ones seen on elliptical-roof stock. But I can't remember what size mine came with. I may have replaced them with the bigger ones. The Pendon one, I notice, has the big ones.   

20210204_130031_resized.jpg

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Ah, then I'll just argue LNER replacements.  I thought you meant they were in the wrong places.   I see there's a disagreement about oil lamps and handrails even between those two drawings.  ISTR the blue book was the same.  I wonder whether they're related?

 

Edit - I think I may have fitted the roof the wrong way round.   Sod it.

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6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Ah, then I'll just argue LNER replacements.  I thought you meant they were in the wrong places.   I see there's a disagreement about oil lamps and handrails even between those two drawings.  ISTR the blue book was the same.  I wonder whether they're related?

 

Edit - I think I may have fitted the roof the wrong way round.   Sod it.

Agree on all counts, Jonathan! - though it took me a lot of looking to work out that they're (perhaps?) in the wrong place, so I wouldn't worry.  

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Putting together some info on the ex-NER horse boxes from various sources: D67 built from 1890 to 1911 after which the design was superceded by D196. Tatlow has a sample list of D67s which "survived" long enough to be taken into LNER stock. From that, and the fact that they were relatively short and being replaced by longer vehicles, it must be concluded that none reached BR - the youngest would have been 37 years old. Although Longworth doesn't have D196 listed, there were at least 6 in BR stock (8, 39, 61, 391, 395, and 592).

 

The horse box between the BR standard Horse Box and the SR style van in the photo from Neil Caplans book is to (LNER) Diagram 9, built 1952 onwards.

 

(LNER) Diagram 9 was also (LMS) Diagram 2181 (because they were built at Earlestown).

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On 02/02/2021 at 08:51, jwealleans said:

Morning David,

 

I've always regarded NPCCS brown as a bit of a moveable feast; Dan Pinnock describes it as close to Humbrol 133, while Peter Tatlow suggests Triumph Russet Brown.   In this case it's 62 with a spot of black - more than might have been intended but I wasn't displeased with the colour. 

 

In LNER Locomotives in Colour, on the page with the well known shot of the green C7 with the black splasher, look at the colour of the D171 in the picture above.   Not an accident of film emulsion either, there are several carriages on there (which are also all different shades of teak).   Later in the book there's a D20 at Wakefield with a GE XB behind it and that's almost black.   Having each vehicle a slightly different colour, for me, makes a train visually more interesting and I don't think is too far from the actuality.

 

Good evening Jonathan,

 

there is not much wrong with the colour you have used on your horsebox. There was quite a bit of variation in the actual shade, as it was mixed at the works or on shed. It was a combination of two matt colours with gloss varnished applied over the top. My Father recalled it quite vividly before the War, and described it as varying between the colour of mud and cold coffee if chalking had occurred. It was never 'teak' coloured and certainly not the caramel colour often used by modelers.

 

The confusion seems to have arisen due to the LNER's intention to paint all passenger rated vehicles, that could not be varnished teak, in a simulated painted teak effect . The road to mud brown was paved with good intentions it would seem, as the painting of many qualifying vehicles in ersatz teak was dropped in favour of plain brown after a while.

 

 The idea of teak coloured paint has remained in the mind of modelers and has become a slightly dodgy 'fact' of alternative reality. In the late thirties, this was given credence by the relevant traffic committees report, describing mud brown passenger carriages and NPC's as unpleasant. I was decided that something needed to be done. A new standard specification for a more teak coloured gloss paint, would be precured from an outside contractor. This was done in 1939 and the first recipients were the long wheelbase CCT's built in that year. My Father recalled seeing Thompson deal vans painted in this new colour scheme just after the War.  The new paint scheme doesn't seem to have been that widely adopted, indeed mud brown was very much in evidence through the 1950s.

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Thanks all for the replies about the D67 horseboxes.  All my railway stuff is packed away at the moment, but I was intrigued by UpDistant's comments so dug out the Tatlow NPCS drawings book.  The sample list referred to (of D67s that "survived" into LNER days) actually totals around 120 vehicles, including a contiguous block of around 50, which I would guess are the later (1911 or so) builds.  (Incidentally, length-wise, the D67s and later D196s were the same, but the LNER builds were longer).  Many types of horseboxes were quite long lived, so I wouldn't bet against some D67s making it to Nationalisation, but it would be nice to have definitive proof.  I know that quite a number of D196s did - UpDistant has listed a few, I have pictures of 179 and 227 plus some unidentifiable ones, and I think there are several more in one of David Larkin's books (which again isn't to hand at the moment).  Any further thoughts or info on the D67s would be welcomed.

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On 05/02/2021 at 19:21, UpDistant said:

Putting together some info on the ex-NER horse boxes from various sources: D67 built from 1890 to 1911 after which the design was superceded by D196. Tatlow has a sample list of D67s which "survived" long enough to be taken into LNER stock. From that, and the fact that they were relatively short and being replaced by longer vehicles, it must be concluded that none reached BR - the youngest would have been 37 years old. Although Longworth doesn't have D196 listed, there were at least 6 in BR stock (8, 39, 61, 391, 395, and 592).

 

The horse box between the BR standard Horse Box and the SR style van in the photo from Neil Caplans book is to (LNER) Diagram 9, built 1952 onwards.

 

(LNER) Diagram 9 was also (LMS) Diagram 2181 (because they were built at Earlestown).

Thanks for that. Picture of 391 showing BR lettering on Steve Banks' site: https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/129-horse-race-traffic

 

And picture of 395 again showing BR lettering here: https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/11ft-6in-wheelbase-panelled-horsebox-br-e395-ex-lne-groom-to-right-high-loading-panels-break-roof-cantrail-level.html

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1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

Thx,

 

those are amazing resources to explore.

 

Colin

 

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I spent a little time this afternoon  - it's bitterly cold here as I gather it is almost everywhere - on a couple of grain vans which I've been going to refurbish for Grantham use for a long time.  One is a Parkside kit, possibly the very first one I built - it was certainly one of these, bought from the much missed R & D Models in Cambridge - while the other has a more interesting provenance.

 

GK-PD-grain-vans-refurb.jpg

 

Some time ago I bought a scratchbuilt grain van to the original pattern off Ebay.   It looked nicely done and wasn't expensive (this was long before lockdown).  Despite having scratchbuilt two previously i didn't have one for myself - one lives in the Ely Club shunting stock and one was a commission.  When it arrived, it was indeed pretty well made but also had a brass underframe which just pulled out.   Left with a plastic body like that, my thoughts turned at once to resin casting and my good friend and colleague Mr. King duly obliged.

 

I must have had this getting on two years and am only now doing anything with it.   It's acquired a 60 thou plastikard floor, MJT W-irons and a plastic hopper up to now.   I've then secured the floor, having put some weight inside and made solebar to body brackets.   It's had a waft of grey primer so you can see it in the photograph which also shows that it's a midge's higher than the PD one, but within what I'd call the 'tired springs' range.   I can always put Gibson or Wizard wheels into it to lower it slightly once finished.  Brakes are still to do - making them a sturdy structure may be a challenge - and buffers, which will probably be a Dave Franks GWR pattern.  For those who don't know, the LNER borrowed drawings from the GW and copied them for these vans.  I have made a GWR one and they are almost identical.  

 

I'm not sure whether or not these are currently available within the extensive King's of Grimsby range.

 

The Parkside one will have a repaint, new buffers and a general tidy up.   I've also opened up the inspection windows in the ends, which were only plated over after 1948.

 

Also pretty much complete and hopefully a less controversial shade of brown, after having brakes added this week, this Peter K GNS horsebox we saw not too long ago.   This has been fiddly and a bit of a nuisance.  I haven't been able to add all the foot steps either as the way the thing is designed would have put them out of gauge.   The strapping was all added with Evergreen strip and seems to have all but vanished in the photo.  Hopefully weathering will bring it out again, it was a long job and does appear more distinctly to the naked eye.

 

Peter-K-GNSR-HB-finished.jpg

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