1960's Clacton/Walton/Colchester area EMU's

[Izzy]

One long term aim of mine since returning to modelling in 2010 using N/2mm has been to attempt to make a couple of the GE area 25K AC emu's that were used in North East Essex on the Clacton/Walton branches in the early years of electricfication.

 

One of these is of course the iconic AM9/309 'Clacton electrics' , (in maroon and for which some parts are available), and I had thought that perhaps the other candidate might be the AM8/308 'Colchester electrics' outer surburban stock, in the green livery.

 

Recently, studying the Middleton Press book, Branch lines to Clacton & Walton, I noticed in a couple of shots, one of Clacton emu shed, one of St Boltophs, of flat faced emu's present which would appear, by the looks of them, to be Fenchurch St 302 units.

 

This would seem to indicate that these were used early on to bolster workings, or perhaps when other units were serviced. Does anyone have any more info?

 

many thanks,

 

Izzy

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Izzy

 

Are the photos dated? I ask that because some AM2s when new were used on the Clacton line while the OLE work on the LTS line was finished. I think this was more to do with testing them in a live situation than with stock shortages. There was always some cross fertilisation of 4 car units on the GE and LTS.

 

I look forward to seeing photos of your models.

[Izzy]

Hi Izzy

 

Are the photos dated? I ask that because some AM2s when new were used on the Clacton line while the OLE work on the LTS line was finished. I think this was more to do with testing them in a live situation than with stock shortages. There was always some cross fertilisation of 4 car units on the GE and LTS.

 

I look forward to seeing photos of your models.

 

Thanks Clive.

 

I'm afraid the shots aren't dated although they do look as though they are good for the early 60's if you know what I mean. The Clacton shed shot was taken to apparently show the new asbestos (!) engine shed extension for the unit stabling, so must I think be pretty early. I'm afraid don't know if the AM2's or AM8's got part/full yellow ends anytime while in green but none have in the shots. Your mention of LTS sets on the GE seems to stir memories of travelling on such units between Frinton - Colchester on occasion, even into the 70's/80's. Real bone shakers IIRC compared to the AM9's and later units, but then I may be thinking of the AM8's.

 

I will be pleased if I can get to the photo taking stage! Trying to do these in N/2mm is proving more of a challenge than I anticipated, lack of sufficient parts in either scale being a major problem, ( I am not pedantic about scale and mix the two, but with care, as there is a difference that is quite noticeable at times meaning mixing parts from them isn't really feasible). Motorizing them is quite another issue.  I did consider using Farish CEP sets as base donor units, but that seemed a crime since I'd throw away so much of them, they are not cheap, and smashing models in the own right. No doubt I'll get there in the end, as I eventually managed with the CL15, but sometimes you do begin to wonder.......which is why the thought of the 302's with flat ends being easier to make then the 308's arose.

 

 

Izzy

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Izzy

 

Have you had a look at Electra Graphics, they do a 302 and 307. Using the 302 sides with new cabs a 305 or 308 could be built. http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk/

[eastwestdivide]

You can find a few photos of 302s via google, either at Clacton or with a Clacton destination blind, but from later periods, so it looks like they weren't such a rarity even when no longer new (as in post 2).

[Bomag]

Thanks Clive.

 

.......which is why the thought of the 302's with flat ends being easier to make then the 308's arose.

 

 

Izzy

 

Why not do a 307 instead of a 302? While perhaps not as common as other GE units they were more likely to be seen after the voltage change than 302s

[Izzy]

Hi Izzy

 

Have you had a look at Electra Graphics, they do a 302 and 307. Using the 302 sides with new cabs a 305 or 308 could be built. http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk/

 

After reading of the home printed N coaches in the Feb RM I have been experimenting with this on different bases, clear printable acetate, label stock, but can't come up with a result so far that is quite what I want in quality terms. The flat clear type seems far too bland with no discernible detail, while cutting out all the windows on the label stock is much better, but rather time consuming for lots of sides. Electra now uses I understand commercial printing with clear flat vinyl sides and no windows cut out, so I might just have to knuckle down to window cutting out.

 

 

Why not do a 307 instead of a 302? While perhaps not as common as other GE units they were more likely to be seen after the voltage change than 302s

 

After further searching online I have now read that the first 20 302 units remained on the GE. As there doesn't seem to be many really visible external differences between the 302 & 307 on studying the diagram books, (probably showing my complete ignorance here!), I'll stick with the 302's for now.

 

thanks to all for the help and suggestions,

 

Izzy

[Adam1701D]

I have drawn up the 305 and 308 units but have delayed releasing these until some decent front ends are available for conversion.

 

The Class 302 and 307 units are available for order, with 3D printed cabs for these units available from Bob at N-Train. Both ends are similar, with the 302s having wider cab windows.

 

The new style vinyls give a much better appearance over the old cut-out ones and feature much more detail and even no-smoking signs where appropriate.

 

Not a Great Eastern unit but gives you an idea...

 

[Suzie]

The first 25KV train on the Clacton line was a 307 in 1959 if I remember correctly from what I have read (I was not there!). I have photocopy of the newspaper article announcing the first electric train on the line somewhere buried in my library. Because the 307s were converted from 1500V DC units with the addition of a transformer and rectifier I think that the pantograph is not on the motor coach which is a difference to the 302 which was built as a 6.25/25KV unit from new. The difference in front window size between the 307 and 302 is quite noticeable.

[Clive Mortimore]

Class 307 diagrams

Rebuilt from 1500v dc DTS

Rebuilt from 1500v dc MBS

Note the TC and DTSO reused the diagrams form when these units ran as 1500 dc units.

 

Southend 1500v dc units diagrams

See above for TC and DTSO diagrams.

 

Class 302 diagrams

For some reason the TC is not on the Barrowmore website http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BREMUDiagramsIssue.pdf

I will have to go and look in my filing cabinet to see what has happened to it as I am sure I loaned them all the diagrams.

 

The TC on all ER 4 car units was basicly the same body wise so the 307 diagram can be used.

 

Edit, looking at my own notes the 302 TC was the same diagram as the 307 units.

[BernardTPM]

Just thought I'd share this view of me in front of a then new Clacton unit at Liverpool Street in the Summer of 1963. Rather awkward lighting conditions, but I've brought out some of the detail in the lining, etc. which was in deep shadow on the original slide:

 

As the pantograph is over the cab this is one of the two-car units.

[Izzy]

That's nice Bernard, I remember the maroon livery quite well, being a teenager at the time, and is how I hope to finish mine. What I can't recall is how long it lasted. Does anyone know?

 

Having sourced some Farish MK1 Pullman Kitchen cars for their commonwealth bogies/roofs/underframes, and a 101 express dmu for the motor bogies - sadly all with undersized wheels which will need attention - I am now trying to work out what etched sides to get from Worsley Works. My intention had been to get a four car set that would have run on the Walton branch after the split at Thorpe i.e. without the griddle car, but I have recently seen a shot of a 2 car unit on the Walton branch, although in the later blue livery. As the 2 car etches are available, with others to make it up to a 4 car set if desired, I am now undecided, since being able to run it as either a 2 car or 4 car set gives added flexibility as I don't have the layout size to run the full 8/10/12 car sets, and the 'ordinary' 4 car sets have a MBS rather than the DMBS so can't be cut down to a 2 car unit. Could I ask please, was the running of the 2 car units on their own common, or the exception rather than the rule. It's something else I have no particular knowledge of.

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

[PhilJ W]

They used to split at Kirby Cross, a four car unit went to Walton-on-the-Naze, and six (4+2) cars to Clacton. Later 2 more coaches converted from hauled stock were added making them all four car units. The two car units very rarely if ever ran on their own.

[Trainshed Terry]

They used to split at Kirby Cross, a four car unit went to Walton-on-the-Naze, and six (4+2) cars to Clacton. Later 2 more coaches converted from hauled stock were added making them all four car units. The two car units very rarely if ever ran on their own.

Wrong, the trains where split at Thorpe-le-Soken where the front portion of the train went to Walton-on-Naze. If I remember the early days the 309 had buffet cars but I can not remember in which set it was in.

[Titan]

There is a picture around showing the griddle car in the set nearest the London end. If this is typical then the normal formation would be from the London end, four car with griddle, four car, two car. Must have been fantastic to have been a commuter from say Chelmsford and be able to tuck in to a freshly cooked full English breakfast on the way to work!!

[Clive Mortimore]

The formation of the Walton/Clacton sets when new was for Walton DC semi-open/MBSK/TSO/DC semi-open, for Clacton, DC semi-open/MBSK/T Griddle car/DC open+DTSO/DMBS. Clacton portion always faced the country end. This remained the basic formation until the early 80s when the some of the 2 car sets were made into 4 car sets by converting some loco hauled coaches. Quickly followed by the withdrawal of the buffets where some ex buffet sets ran as 3 car units some as 4 car units with the TSO from the 4 car (ex 2 car sets), which in turn also ran as 3 car sets. This lasted only a short time while more ex loco hauled coaches were converted for replacement of the buffet cars and to bring the remaining 2 car sets up to 4 cars. At the same time some stations had their platforms extended to take 12 car trains.

[Izzy]

The formation of the Walton/Clacton sets when new was for Walton DC semi-open/MBSK/TSO/DC semi-open, for Clacton, DC semi-open/MBSK/T Griddle car/DC open+DTSO/DMBS. Clacton portion always faced the country end. This remained the basic formation until the early 80s when the some of the 2 car sets were made into 4 car sets by converting some loco hauled coaches. Quickly followed by the withdrawal of the buffets where some ex buffet sets ran as 3 car units some as 4 car units with the TSO from the 4 car (ex 2 car sets), which in turn also ran as 3 car sets. This lasted only a short time while more ex loco hauled coaches were converted for replacement of the buffet cars and to bring the remaining 2 car sets up to 4 cars. At the same time some stations had their platforms extended to take 12 car trains.

 

 Many thanks for that Clive, and all the other info, it's great to have the diagram books on the Barrowmore site for all to read/use. Now I know what I need to get.

 

Izzy

[Izzy]

Just started to make my 309 units and found I don't have any real underframe details, and I can't seem to find any anywhere with regard to any of the GE EMU classes 302 to 309. Could anyone possibly say where I might be able to locate any?

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

[Clive Mortimore]

Class 307 diagrams

DTSB.png

Rebuilt from 1500v dc DTS

MS.png

Rebuilt from 1500v dc MBS

TC.png

DTSO.png

Note the TC and DTSO reused the diagrams form when these units ran as 1500 dc units.

 

Southend 1500v dc units diagrams

DTS.png

MBS.png

See above for TC and DTSO diagrams.

 

Class 302 diagrams

DTS.png

MBS.png

DTSO.png

For some reason the TC is not on the Barrowmore website http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BREMUDiagramsIssue.pdf

I will have to go and look in my filing cabinet to see what has happened to it as I am sure I loaned them all the diagrams.

 

The TC on all ER 4 car units was basicly the same body wise so the 307 diagram can be used.

 

Edit, looking at my own notes the 302 TC was the same diagram as the 307 units.

Oh dear I seem to have someone disagree with this post and not say why.

 

It does make you think why bother to help others.

[eastwestdivide]

Oh dear I seem to have someone disagree with this post and not say why.

 

It does make you think why bother to help others.

Probably fat fingers/wobbly mouse mistakenly stabbing the wrong icon. Easily done. Wouldn't worry. Have a "Like" to balance things up...

[cg501]

Hi Izzy

 

Just came across this topic how is your Class 309 coming on, were you able to the detailed shots of the underframe you needed, If not please get in contact, as we have 2 class 309s at the Electric Railway Museum and it is easy for me to get any picture you still need.

 

If not why not come over and visit.  We have a open weekend 12th and 13th September 2015(it's Free to get in)

 

Andrew Humphries

Site Manager

Electric Railway Museum 

[PaulG]

Hi Izzy

 

have you obtained a copy of "Modern Locomotives Illustrated" No 183 "First Generation Eastern Region (GE) Electrical Multiple Units" (June/July 2010)  ?

 

Very good selection of b&w and colour photographs, together with history of the stock and workings.

 

We also published a number of articles in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal on EMU's; Journal 99 July 1999 had an illustrated article (b&w & colour photos and unit drawings) on the 1962 Clacton Express stock.

 

regards

Paul