Gene Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I suspect this has been posted here before but just in case it hasn't been or for those that might have missed it.....some interesting short line modelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lankyphil Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 That's what happens when you hammer track pins in too far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm not sure where the "talent" comes in. The track is distorted, but there is no mention (on the You tube version) of correctly modeling proper working suspension to handle it. Which, if done, it will 100% with no issues. (just as the prototype runs regularly on similarly bad old yard tracks). Since the cars (and loco) frequently jerk, rather than more slowly roll and lurch, that doesn't seem to have been the case. If you look at 0:46, you can see that he appears to have Kadee equalized trucks on the yellow car in which the near wheel drops into the near rail dent, but the far wheel on the same axle stays level on the far rail. Also the truck sideframes can be seen tilting back and forth, in many views, which isn't something that is normally possible with the run of the mill rigid trucks that are so popular on both RTR and 99% of the latest highly detailed specialist makers cars. Note that although provided with miniature springs, the Kadee trucks really only work as unsprung, equalized trucks, so they don't provide much smoothing of track induced jolts, other than the proportion reduction provided by equalization. Andy That's what happens when you hammer track pins in too far! What's a track pin? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Jeez...you guys are a tough audience. The talent is two-fold...the stock doesn't derail and if you actually watch videos of some of the real trains on horrible track...his cars and loco move pretty realistically in comparison.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Jeez...you guys are a tough audience. The talent is two-fold...the stock doesn't derail and if you actually watch videos of some of the real trains on horrible track...his cars and loco move pretty realistically in comparison.... I'm definitely a tough audience . I don't think it's fair to assign that to the rest of the RM Webbers in general. They are normal (at least in that way. . . ). Accurately modeling track and making working suspension is a major part of my hobby interest. So when someone shouts "Eureka - it works!", I'm only interested if they can explain "how and why". Otherwise it's not knowledge to pass on. Andy PS His cars are pretty much, sharply and instantly following the track distortions, not swaying and rolling more slowly, much like the heavy prototypes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Andy…the tough audience was only directed at you and Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lankyphil Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Andy…the tough audience was only directed at you and Phil I shall remove my tongue from my cheek then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I shall remove my tongue from my cheek then As will I Phil. ;0) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 i liked it ...so there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Interesting, yes. I do like the weathering a lot except the ends of the cars. Whoever it is is talented but they still look like models covering badly laid track very successfully. I saw a spread in MR recently about that Danish modeler's new layout (sorry his name escapes me but y’all know who I mean) and some guy wrote in to congratulate on his realistic looking dipping track in his freight yard and how did he do it. I’m afraid that his response was that he thought he had laid it flat... Gravity accelerates an object at 32.154fts2 but we cannot scale it down to 4 3/8is2 approx in HO. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 that Danish modeler's new layout (sorry his name escapes me but y’all know who I mean) Yup - Pelle K. Soeeborg who certainly is a talented modeller. Gravity accelerates an object at 32.154fts2 but we cannot scale it down to 4 3/8is2 approx in HO. What's with all the foot pounds per furlong? 9.8ms-2 please. What if you use a fast clock? Then it works out to be the same. A 9X clock should just about do it - say 10X to make it easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted August 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well I liked it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well he gets kudos from me for 1 - trying & 2 - using the right Railroad. I'm not entirely sure he hasn't quite overdone it with the track.... the effect he's got in a short space is usually more evident due to telephoto/zoom shots. But I still like it all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSNE Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Interesting, yes. Gravity accelerates an object at 32.154fts2 but we cannot scale it down to 4 3/8is2 approx in HO. Best, Pete. Precisely the reason I'm planning to build my next layout in near-earth orbit.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Precisely the reason I'm planning to build my next layout in near-earth orbit.... Having the time dilation may help! Or would it only complicate the matter? Oh, dear, I think it is time that I went outside for a spell... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting video. For me, it doesn't work because: the cars should sway heavily, not jiggle track only usually looks like that because of the beloved telephoto cliche - scale up to 1:1 this track would be bad ordered immediately, even on a wreck like the late Milwaukee the trucks springs should compress under the weight of the cars movement the air hoses and mu cables should swing in harmony with the locomotive the track itself should flex under the weight of the locomotive and cars ties on track this bad would be 'pumping' the muddy ballast As stated earlier, you can't scale the physics so (in my opinion) it's not even worth trying. I have some 1:29 scale stuff, and even that doesn't behave properly. For me, it's a prime example of modelling from photographs, not from on site observation. Gosh, I sound snooty. It's just that the illusion really doesn't work for me for all the reasons cited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mostly I agree with Dr G-F's post, but I don't agree that just because something can't be done "properly", it isn't worth trying at all. I did something similar on my O Scale layout "Portway Center", (albeit not quite as bad) & at the Trent Valley Show in June it was a real "head turner" even if stock didn't act entirely prototypically. Fortunately there were no Uber-track-detail modellers there either... Taken to it's extreme, as almost all railway modelling involves compromise to varying degrees (even for the Uber guys) if we didn't bother because we couldn't do something 100% "properly", it'd be a helluva smaller hobby..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 At low speed the sid-to-side rocking looks tame (compared to watching GO passenger trains enter some platforms in Toronto), but in the faster bit at the end it just looks wrong. The track itself just looks wrong. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 To all the critics above, where's yours? Please, show the unwashed how it should be correctly done using exactly the same track and rolling stock. I'm certain we'll be waiting a very long time. ...:-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 To my mind the amount of roll looks about right (but as people have said, possibly doesn't give the right feeling of mass) but the track looks exaggerated. Presumably this is because, in real life, some of the sway comes from the suspension components. I'd be pleased with it, and if he can get the track looking like its bedded into the ballast properly (i.e. nearly under it!) it will look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 To all the critics above, where's yours? Please, show the unwashed how it should be correctly done using exactly the same track and rolling stock. I'm certain we'll be waiting a very long time. ...:-) I think that is a little unfair as I’m sure it was placed here for comments and it would be a dull place if everyone simply agreed. This subject has been discussed on here off and on for several years (and tried by some) - my experience has been that the stately roll and pitch of the real thing has been impossible to obtain in model form, at least for me - I hope someone manages it in my lifetime because I’d be the first to applaud it. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Having said that, to get down to your level of argument, can you show us yours?No, but I'm not the one critiquing the quality of modeling one way or the other, am I? I'm merely pointing out the inconsistency of those whose who find fault with another's work without having anything of substance to show how they have done it better. I believe those types are pretty commonly found traipsing through exhibitions, are they not? Perhaps you're among their ranks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 ...but what's the point? Has nothing I said about not needing to be good at something oneself to be able to see good in the work of others sunk in?Let me clarify -- Mr. Reichert was to whom I should have specifically addressed my first post. I thought his remarks were somewhat harsh -- "I'm not sure where the 'talent' comes in. ..." -- the most objectionable. Critiquing the critics? Sure, I'll plead guilty to that. And to take your logic to its conclusion, if they needn't show anything using the same models and materials, neither is it incumbent upon me. To propose such a thing in rebuttal to my comments is in itself facile. Were I to critique the video, I would want to point out areas of good modeling as well as areas that could stand improvements. Second, we have no disagreement with the statement "not needing to be good at something oneself to be able to see good in the work of others." What led you to believe we disagree? Who cannot visit your blog site and say, "There's some superb modeling; that's inspiring."? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Let me clarify -- Mr. Reichert was to whom I should have specifically addressed my first post. I thought his remarks were somewhat harsh -- "I'm not sure where the 'talent' comes in. ..." -- the most objectionable. SNIP I thought I provided immediately following a coupla paragraphs of substance to back up my "objectionable" statement - I.E. - what did he do to make his trains run OK on track that was likely too (merely) damaged for normal RTR? Which was where there should have been some very significant talent explained (So you and the rest of us could make our own track look and work equally well). I didn't claim it was "talented", I responded to that description as being discovered to be somewhat misplaced when the result was analyzed in more depth. As to offering own work. . . . Would and and qualify me to critique in your estimation? I'm sorry the track items shown are not beaten up. It was too much work to put them deliberately into sufficiently "flat" state for good reference running in the first place. My own version of equalized and sprung passenger trucks are not yet ready to be tested. But I promise I shall use similarly distorted track when I do that. ( handling many random +/- 0.5 mm height changes on each rail, using P87 flanges, is my spec.) And then post videos of my own which you will be free to critique, presumably with similar supporting reasoning, in any manner you wish. The current video showing handling of P87 coaches at 125 mph on carelessly laid track and sub base is on MRH thread: Note the loco dip at 12 and 14 seconds on video 2. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php%3F/topic/83399-us-proto87-extreme-testing-and-demo-layout-progress-reportings/&sa=U&ei=FCr9U87uK4fYigL07IG4Cg&ved=0CAYQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFqPXCPV9hiOAlA55S97ik1-jy1aw Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Ooh, a Self-guarding Frog!!! Pity you don't do one for O scale, Andy, in Code 100 and "ordinary" (i.e. non-P:48) standards . I know it obviously wouldn't look as good, but all tbe same... When I'm home on my PC (as opposed to now, on break at work, on my phone & with a dodgy mobile connection) I'll gladly post some pics of my rough track, & my home-made, cobbled-up apology of a self-guarding frog in O scale as described above.... It'll give people a laugh, at least..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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