NER 1903 Autocar

[The White Rabbit]

I don't like to be disrespectful but could the desk have been a bit more retro as the current one uses a lot of 56 parts , and although the seat maybe comfortable but is a bit modern for it . most preserved railways are pretty short so I'm sure those who operate it could stand a bit of Edwardian discomfort for half an hour at most

Other than that it is stunning and a credit to the restorers.

 

A follow-up to this & subsequent comments - more or less what I thought earlier, our engineer said it is a case of what was available at the time! He admits some of the cab gauges look like those in a 56 (some are actually ex HST from when they were refurbished), but we got them free, with permission of the owners. The master controllers 'insides' are actually from the class 58 – we could have kept their modern looking handles, but instead chose to fit handles from 08s, which look older, to give a 'vintage' appearance. 

[The White Rabbit]

White Rabbit,

 

You were kind enough to post (or PM to me?) some good 'tech' detail of the original drive-train.

 

Any chance of similar for the new arrangement?

 

Kevin

 

Our engineer has sent me a draft of his 'General Description' for the Drivers Manual. Hope this helps:

 

The NER Autocar is a 2 coach set comprising power car 3170 and driving trailer 3453. The power car has cabs at both ends and can run as a single vehicle. The driving trailer has driving controls in the guard’s van and can couple to the power car at the opposite end. 3170 is air braked, and 3453 is dual braked to allow it to be used as an ordinary coach in vacuum braked trains. The set is designed for use on Heritage Railways only, with a maximum speed of 25 mph. It has been designed to be able to start on a 1 in 49 gradient which is the steepest on any heritage line.

 

Traction equipment

 

The set is powered by a Cummins QSL9 6 cylinder engine rated at 330 HP and running at 1800 rpm. This drives main and auxiliary 3 phase alternators (one at each end of the engine). The main alternator feeds a rectifier (ex class 47 ETH) then conventional electro-mechanical control gear to feed 2 English Electric EE507 traction motors mounted on No 1 bogie (EE507 was the standard Southern region EMU motor for many years). Engine control and Load Regulation is by Brush electronic modules, and a BR WSP system is fitted which feeds the 3 speedometers and corrects any wheelspin (under power) on the driven axles. It does NOT correct any wheelslide when braking.

 

3170 has 2 batteries – a 24 volt one (inside the engine housing) which is the starter battery and also feeds some of the Cummins engine control system, and a 96 volt one which is mounted on the underframe and supplies the control gear as well as the lighting on both coaches. 3453 does not have a battery since the lighting is fed from 3170. The 96 volt battery is charged from the 415 volt auxiliary alternator, through a battery charge transformer inside the battery box. The auxiliary alternator also feeds the engine cooling fan which is mounted horizontally above the engine and draws air upwards through the engine housing.

 

The control system is similar in concept to a class 56 or HST power car and many components were recovered from these or other locomotives.

 

Brakes

 

Air for the braking system is supplied by a compressor which is driven mechanically off the engine. A “Truckmaster” air filtration and drying system is fitted. BR type automatic air brakes are fitted, but without overcharge – the distributors have dump valves which prevent a higher train pipe pressure being “locked in” and causing dragging brakes. (The brake valves were recovered from BREL built NIR vehicles which used this system). 3170 has separate distributors and cylinders for each bogie to provide redundancy as it can run singly, No 1 end has a 12” and No 2 a 10” cylinder. 3453 has a single distributor feeding a 10” cylinder for each bogie – these are mounted together in the centre of the vehicle.

 

All cabs have mechanical handbrakes, on 3170 the handbrakes both work on No1 (motor) bogie. A handbrake warning indicator is fitted which sounds the driver/guard buzzer in all cabs if the controller is put to Forward or Reverse with the handbrake applied, but initially this is operated by the handbrake in No 1 cab only.

 

Conventional DSD pedals and Low Main Reservoir Protection are fitted, on 3170 these operate through a Brake Application Unit in No 1 cab desk, and a separate BAU is fitted in 3453.

 

Cab Controls

 

Controls are similar to a conventional BR loco, and use a standard controller key. However, the engine can be started only from the control panel in the luggage area, after inserting a control key in the adjacent No 1 cab.

 

Fire Detection System

 

Fire detectors are fitted at various points in the engine housing, and when activated these ring a Fire Bell in each cab. The driver can retain control of the train before stopping in a place of his choosing and investigating. The engine housing has viewing windows to enable a fire to be seen, in which case the Fire bottles can be discharged electrically from a push button in the luggage area.

[Dava]

russ p, on 22 Oct 2018 - 20:53, said:

I don't like to be disrespectful but could the desk have been a bit more retro as the current one uses a lot of 56 parts , and although the seat maybe comfortable but is a bit modern for it . most preserved railways are pretty short so I'm sure those who operate it could stand a bit of Edwardian discomfort for half an hour at most

Other than that it is stunning and a credit to the restorers.

 

"A follow-up to this & subsequent comments - more or less what I thought earlier, our engineer said it is a case of what was available at the time! He admits some of the cab gauges look like those in a 56 (some are actually ex HST from when they were refurbished), but we got them free, with permission of the owners. The master controllers 'insides' are actually from the class 58 – we could have kept their modern looking handles, but instead chose to fit handles from 08s, which look older, to give a 'vintage' appearance. "

 

The parts used have a sound pedigree and should be reliable. Most people will never see the cab desk. Some people seem to want a Steampunk recreation which is not very fitting in a petrol/diesel electric!

 

'The General Description' for the Drivers Manual just increases my admiration for the ingenuity which went into the design & procurement for the driving & control systems of the Autocar, using carefully recycled proven technologies & products.

 

Dava

Edited October 30, 2018 by Dava

[Nearholmer]

Very interesting description of the drive.

 

I’d imagined that it would use IGBTs and 3-phase motors, so to see ‘old friends’ in the form of EE507s is rather nice.

 

Restore, reuse, recycle!

 

Many thanks, Kevin

[The White Rabbit]

1 in 49 was the steepest gradient in the design brief for the engineers. Of the railways we expect the autocar may operate on, the NYMR between Grosmont and Goathland, in autumn leaf-fall, on a 'soft' day, potentially after being checked at a signal, was seen as the biggest challenge facing us. Yes, there are steeper gradients - Foxfield, Lickey, St David's-Central etc. ad nauseam, but - rightly or wrongly - we believed traversing these would be unlikely. 

[The White Rabbit]

'The General Description' for the Drivers Manual just increases my admiration for the ingenuity which went into the design & procurement for the driving & control systems of the Autocar, using carefully recycled proven technologies & products.

 

You and me both, we've a good engineering team with many years decades of experience and knowledge between them. 

[brack]

Would that prevent it operating on a steeper gradient, or just mean further testing would be required before it was given the go ahead?

 

Obviously foxfield is a little extreme in its gradients, but somewhere like tanfield, an ex NER line with bits of about 1 in 40 (I think) might be a plausible future visit.

[Dava]

Lovely photo of 3170 on test in a feature on single-unit railcars in the Railway Modeller 2019 special!

[The White Rabbit]

Would that prevent it operating on a steeper gradient, or just mean further testing would be required before it was given the go ahead?

 

Obviously foxfield is a little extreme in its gradients, but somewhere like tanfield, an ex NER line with bits of about 1 in 40 (I think) might be a plausible future visit.

 

I suspect further testing/checks. The specification as above was for the power loading/traction so maybe it would be OK on steeper gradients with less weight (such as operating without a trailer?) on such lines? There would come a point where we'd get a bit concerned over clearances between various parts and the flex between bogies and body when transitioning any abrupt changes in gradients, quite where that point would be I'm not sure. It would be nice to see the autocar in the north-east. 

[brack]

Thanks - just curious. It's a huge achievement to have the Autocar back at all. Tangible evidence that the NER were the most forward thinking line in the country in the 20 years pre grouping (whatever churchward might have to say about it, Raven could see the future and it was electric, not taper boilered 4-6-0s).

[Boris]

Well tbh I was having mucky dreams about the autocar without a trailer doing Grosmont Goathland and passing the G5 with the autotrailer!

[The White Rabbit]

Well, passing between stations could be a bit tricky, but crossing at Goathland would be good, room for another in that dream? 

[Sc59401]

What a brilliant job!  Well done to all concerned for bringing back to life something so interesting and historically important.

[PhilJ W]

Rails of Sheffield are commissioning a 00 scale R-T-R model of the railcar. http://railsofsheffield.com

[Boris]

Rails of Sheffield are commissioning a 00 scale R-T-R model of the railcar. http://railsofsheffield.com

Not at that price!

[Oldddudders]

Not at that price!

Sorry, Boris, but that price is squarely where any such model will now sit. Limited numbers will be sold, but while doubling the production run might shave a tenner, it would be risking many sitting on shelves.

 

Unique models, like this and the Kernow GWR Railmotor, garner sales from collectors and others who like the unusual, as well as the “local” modellers for whom it fits right in. But getting it right costs money, and is essential for sales to succeed in our era.

[DougN]

Have to agree with olddudders, it is a collectors or niche model. Yes I would like one but I don't have a good experience with Heljan models. So I am a little wary. I also don't have the fear of missing out which a lot of people suffer from. I think I will have to wait until closer to the release date or after I have read a couple of reviews. It fits right into my NER area in the LNER period.

[Ian Smeeton]

I suspect that the pre-release price will be significantly below the post release price, and at least with people like Rails/Hattons etc, there is no problem in returning the model if it does not match your expectations.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[PhilJ W]

I suspect that the pre-release price will be significantly below the post release price, and at least with people like Rails/Hattons etc, there is no problem in returning the model if it does not match your expectations.

 

Regards

 

Ian

A lot depends on outside factors such as the value of the £, and with Brexit coming up I wouldn't want to call that one.

[rue_d_etropal]

I have mentioned it elsewhere, but I have a 3D printed body available in various scales(adding more). I am also currently adding the original version (small mod), and the trailer coach, prompted by this Rail announcement. It is not a difficult model to motorize, and is a lot cheaper. And not exclusivly OO scale either.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/passenger-stock-lner/3d_printed_ner-railcars.htm

[MarkC]

Well, I've bitten the bullet and gone for a set of Worsley Works 4mm scale etches. I've been toying with the idea for a while; the announcement of the RTR one has made me decide to get the etches, just in case they become unavailable.

 

A nice project for next trip, I think

[Edwardian]

It is interesting that most of the models I have seen of this fascinating prototype include the cooling equipment fitted to the clerestory roof. It is not present on the original works drawings (it was fitted to help cool the more powerful Wolseley engine), and it is omitted from the various drawings prepared by modellers. The only drawing I have seen showing this feature is in an article dating from 1904.

 

It will be interesting to see if Rails/Heljan tackle this feature.

 

The exception is the model seen running on the 7mm layout, Marske, here photographed at Redcar in 2016..

[richard i]

So when was the number of doors changed on the side? Very early on?

Many thanks

Richard

[Edwardian]

So when was the number of doors changed on the side? Very early on?

Many thanks

Richard

 

1909-10, when the single doors were replaced with double doors for a luggage compartment.

 

The Wolseley engine had come earlier, I believe in 1904, as the Napier unit was too underpowered. The additional clerestory vent at the engine end and the cooling apparatus along the clerestory roof were added to try to keep the more powerful Wolseley engine cool. A Christmas card was published in 1904 showing 3170 in this condition, the livery now being 'poppy red & ivory'. 

 

The only pictures I have so far seen of an Autocar in NE days without the clerestory vent and cooling pipes(?) along the roof are the early ones of 3171 in NE Lake. Whether single or double door, I suggest that in poppy red and ivory they should feature this cooling apparatus.

 

To be fair, I suspect 3 of the 4 pictures I posted may be of the same model (that on Runswick Bay), The Marske layout is apparently set c.1910-1920, so the double door condition is a fit for that timeframe.

 

I gather Runswick Bay has passed into private hands; a pity from my point of view, as I never managed to see it in the flesh.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Very good information for the technically-inclined here, which shows the second ‘power train’ and cooling arrangement very clearly. https://www.wolseleycarclubnz.co.nz/railway.html