Deneside - BR North Eastern Region

[Brian D]

Brian - a question I'm struggling with myself- what is your view on weathering steam locos? 

 

I've two Hornby B1s and two Hornby K1s. They are exquisite, perfect performers, expertly detailed, and I'm scared stiff of weathering them! I mention them because, although they are lined, I see them as black, working engines,particularly the K1s. I don't have an issue with diesels, I need them weathered. It's all a bit of a paradox.

 

Your views?

 

Regards,Tony.

Hi Tony,

I've not weathered any of my locos but I have purchased some already "factory" weathered.  Quite frankly I'm scared of messing them up!  It's probably a psychological block I have.  If I were to do so though, as Jock has suggested, there are some masters on here to learn from.  Thinking about it, I'd probably start with a diesel though.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Tony,

I'm sure AndyP or Baz(BarryO) on ERs would be happy to advise you on the subject of weathering. AndyP has a link under his signature to his weathering site, and both he and Baz (who makes a living from weathering models for others) have produced superb examples of the art over the years. I would have to use fairly heavy weathering to represent the condition of most of the locos at Hurlford in the fifties/early sixties. There were exceptions in the couple of shed 'pets' - I recall a 2P and a Crab being thus treated, but most of the 'Standards' were in pretty shabby condition. A 'pet' style loco requires special weathering treatment as I can remember the boilers, cabs, tenders all being treated with oil soaked rags, so nice and shiny, but the smoke box and firebox sides looking like they had a dusty matt finish presumably caused by the heat. I would be interested to read the comments of Andy and Baz if you decide to talk to them on the subject.

I hope Joan and you manage to have a reasonable night tonight, I'm now going to try to sleep if my innards will allow me,

Kind regards,

Jock.

PS, Sorry to hi-jack your thread Brian!

Jock,

Absolutely no problem.  Hi-jack as much as you like.  Excellent advice in your post.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Not a lot happening at present - waiting for a couple of points and some point motors to arrive in the post from Liverpool and family (child minding) duties have intervened - I really don't know how much progress I'll be making in the New Year, me and Mrs D are down for grandson minding two days a week.  I have though given the turntable rim a few coats of grey paint to represent concrete - the plan is to add brick paper to the walls of the well.

 

In the meantime, The Big Wigs have sent another big green engine down the line to test out the new turntable - no lesser person than William Wordsworth himself.

 

 

Plenty of room on the 'table...

 

 

...so back to Big Wig town.

 

 

Hopefully the posty will bring me what I need so that I can go round the bend as promised

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

PS Note to self - must fit the detail parts to the Brit!

Edited December 2, 2015 by Brian D

[Andrew P]

looking good on the Table Brian, a little weathering never hurts, hahahh.

[Brian D]

looking good on the Table Brian, a little weathering never hurts, hahahh.

 

There are so many aspects to this fantastic hobby and, looking through your work Andy, I think you've mastered all of them as far as I'm concerned.  I haven't got the room or the resources to model the ECML (my first true love but if I did it would have to be Durham, no one's done that yet I think) so this layout is what it is, 30 inch plus or minus track radii included!  If mine turns out looking even half as good as one of yours Andy (Glen Roy is one of my favourites) then I'll be doing well.

Thanks again for your support - just heading across to your thread now.

Regards,

Brian.

[HAL 'O THE WYND]

Hi Tony,

I've not weathered any of my locos but I have purchased some already "factory" weathered.  Quite frankly I'm scared of messing them up!  It's probably a psychological block I have.  If I were to do so though, as Jock has suggested, there are some masters on here to learn from.  Thinking about it, I'd probably start with a diesel though.

Regards,

Brian

 

Thanks Brian,

 

I think we're in a similar boat. As I said, old stuff is good for practice - even buy a non-working loco on the cheap from somewhere - then you can try and fix it, too - all down to experience .I agree about the diesels. I'm busy with mine at the moment. Diesels can look very toy like out of the box. Andy's as good as it gets in this department. I'll certainly check him out - and Baz, who I'm not familiar with but is very recommended.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Jock67B]

Sorry Tony,

I didn't make it very clear, but I meant that I have no choice but to weather as I've chosen the fifties to mid sixties as an era. Of course, any models you really love in pristine condition, could easily have just been out shopped after major work!

I seem to be joining you on the sleep front at the moment, but at least it gives me time to look into excellent threads like this one of Brian's!!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Jock67B]

Evening Brian,

I love the Brit, we ended up with quite a few in S.W.Scotland in the early sixties, sometimes pulling prestigious trains like the 'Thames Clyde Express' on the Nith valley line, at others relegated to lowly parcels duties!

I think you are correct in that a layout should be there to please you, if others get a voyeuristic pleasure from it as well, all well and good. The turntable looks better already and the brick paper should make it!

I inherited a Hornby Class25 Diesel which although not yet run in, is almost forty years old. After servicing it, I shall then crib your idea and practice weathering on that first. Thanks for that,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[HAL 'O THE WYND]

Sorry Tony,

I didn't make it very clear, but I meant that I have no choice but to weather as I've chosen the fifties to mid sixties as an era. Of course, any models you really love in pristine condition, could easily have just been out shopped after major work!

I seem to be joining you on the sleep front at the moment, but at least it gives me time to look into excellent threads like this one of Brian's!!

Kind regards,

Jock.

 

To be honest, Jock, in the long term I have no choice either. In the 60's+ era I'm trying to model, virtually all steam locos were absolutely filthy. So there we go.

 

You certainly have my sympathy sleep-wise. My latest petty malady is described as "restless limb syndrome." Essentially, it's a combination of numbness, pins'n needles, and jumping nerves! LOL 

 

(Sorry for the ageing whining, Brian ;-)

 

Tony.

[Brian D]

To be honest, Jock, in the long term I have no choice either. In the 60's+ era I'm trying to model, virtually all steam locos were absolutely filthy. So there we go.

 

You certainly have my sympathy sleep-wise. My latest petty malady is described as "restless limb syndrome." Essentially, it's a combination of numbness, pins'n needles, and jumping nerves! LOL 

 

(Sorry for the ageing whining, Brian ;-)

 

Tony.

Any Whining (whinging?) is not a problem, Tony.  I do it all the time

Regards,

Brian.

[danstercivicman]

Looking good! How are you planning to paint your peco turn table? I'm looking at one and it stands out like a sore thumb. Weathering locos is best left to experts! I have messed up a few

[Northroader]

On the weathering question, why not use artists pastel chalks, rather than cooking up diluted paint grunge which seems to be popular? Get them, in sticks from an art dealers, black, various greys (not fifty), umber brown, sienna brown. Then rub on emery paper to produce a powder, and scatter in small dollops where you want. Rub in with a dry paintbrush, and carry on from there. If you like the effect, you can leave it on, if not, you can wash it off to get back to where you were. You can do stiffer mixes with chalk and water, and dry brush over when dry, to get a dirtier look. This works well on the superstructure, but you might need a more oily look downstairs on the undercart.

[Brian D]

Looking good! How are you planning to paint your peco turn table? I'm looking at one and it stands out like a sore thumb. Weathering locos is best left to experts! I have messed up a few

 

 

On the weathering question, why not use artists pastel chalks, rather than cooking up diluted paint grunge which seems to be popular? Get them, in sticks from an art dealers, black, various greys (not fifty), umber brown, sienna brown. Then rub on emery paper to produce a powder, and scatter in small dollops where you want. Rub in with a dry paintbrush, and carry on from there. If you like the effect, you can leave it on, if not, you can wash it off to get back to where you were. You can do stiffer mixes with chalk and water, and dry brush over when dry, to get a dirtier look. This works well on the superstructure, but you might need a more oily look downstairs on the undercart.

 

Thanks for your interest in my ramblings.

I'm still unsure about how to fully treat the turntable.  The top edge has been painted grey to represent concrete and I was planning to line the inside of the well with brickpaper.  The circular rail needs to be painted to look like track, probably a metal colour to the top and rail rust to the sides.  I'll probably paint the bottom of the well also in grey to represent concrete.  Northroader, your weathering tips sound great to finish things off.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Progress has been interupted some what by the onset of mental cruelty Christmas shopping .

 

However, the two points I ordered have arrived,  These comprise a crossover at the "bottom of the U" so to speak.  They are ringed in red below.

 

 

So I've laid them out on the baseboards to check a few things...

 

 

...principally to check that the radii of the various curves will all still fit both sides of this cross over.  Perhaps I'll be brave and make a start on laying the curves by the turntable tomorrow.

 

Meanwhile, the Big Wigs have sent another big engine down the line to check clearances, one of them new fangled diesel jobs...

 

 

"The Durham Light Infantry" no less.  It made a tremendous noise...

 

 

...when it departed but seemed to have lost a buffer somewhere.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Jock67B]

Brian,

Does your Deltic have sound - it's quite different from most others as the opposed piston two stroke Diesel engine, first developed for MTBs I believe, has a fairly unique sound! In my book of course it will never surpass that emanating from a 3 or 4 cylinder steam locos at speed. Good to see things coming along so well mate,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Northroader]

The Deltic "sound" was highly distinctive mainly because there were two engines, which would move in and out of synchronisation with each other. this produced a very slow throb. In those days I was in digs in York, half a mile from the main line, and hearing an express leaving headed South on a quiet evening was really atmospheric. I'm no expert on the DCC scene, but to conjure this up would be difficult.

[Brian D]

Brian,

Does your Deltic have sound - it's quite different from most others as the opposed piston two stroke Diesel engine, first developed for MTBs I believe, has a fairly unique sound! In my book of course it will never surpass that emanating from a 3 or 4 cylinder steam locos at speed. Good to see things coming along so well mate,

Kind regards,

Jock.

 

Jock,

The layout is old school non digital (cab control) so no chips and no sound.  I was "imagineering" the sound of a Deltic which I do remember from my youth - totally different from any other diesel sound of the time.  Most of my other diesel models have a recognisable "no 1 end" usually adjacent the single roof mounted cooling fan (with only one exhaust port visible on the roof), I assume meaning one diesel engine mounted therein.  The Deltic seems to have 4 roof mounted fans and two exhaust roof ports.

Your comment has therefore prompted me to refer to my small library and It has confirmed what I thought - the Deltics had two two stroke diesel engines with associated generating sets.  The "deltic" term I believe refered to the fact that the engine had three crank shafts with the cylinders in a triangular formation.  I am not an automotive engineer so I can't quite get my head around how that worked - a bit like "horizonally opposed" but different

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

The Deltic "sound" was highly distinctive mainly because there were two engines, which would move in and out of synchronisation with each other. this produced a very slow throb. In those days I was in digs in York, half a mile from the main line, and hearing an express leaving headed South on a quiet evening was really atmospheric. I'm no expert on the DCC scene, but to conjure this up would be difficult.

 

Sorry Northroader, our posts obviously crossed - totally agree.

Regards,

Brian.

[Jock67B]

Brian,

The very word 'Deltic' derives from the fourth letter of the Greek alphabet which is symbolised by a equilateral triangle, the same as the cross-sectional shape of the engine. The principle was that you actually got effectively three engines in one, but very compact size for fitting in to a boat. It was ideal for a loco application and in tandem turned out (I believe) 3300hp! 'Northroader' of course has reminded me of their propensity for running out of sync which produced that distinctive note!

I recall travelling to Newcastle and Edinburgh behind them several times - very impressive pulling power!

Thanks for helping to bring the memories back to the fore mate. As usual, I look forward o the next episode of your excellent build,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Jock67B]

Brian,

For some reason, I recall a discussion on a possible overall roof, and I've noticed that there's an article in the current RM about building one. Also, 'big jim' on his thread 'big jim's roundy roundy shed layout' has made a good job of kit bashing to produce one. If you aren't going to consider it, ignore this post!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Brian D]

Brian,

For some reason, I recall a discussion on a possible overall roof, and I've noticed that there's an article in the current RM about building one. Also, 'big jim' on his thread 'big jim's roundy roundy shed layout' has made a good job of kit bashing to produce one. If you aren't going to consider it, ignore this post!

Kind regards,

Jock.

 

Hi Jock,

I think that, for now nor in the future, there will be no overall roof - I don't think the platform configuration that I've chosen (two island platforms with 4 platform faces) now lends itself to an overall roof.  Canopies, however, I might think about adding later.

Thanks again for your kind comments.

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

It's official - he's gone round the bend

 

 

Seriously, the inner (up) mainline has been laid including the point forming part of the crossover at the "bottom of the U" as it were.  The outer (down) main line will follow in the next few days then these two tracks, the crossover mentioned and a couple of points around the station throat area will be energised.

 

Meanwhile, the Sentinel shunts a few vans.

 

 

Hopefully, early in the new year, thoughts will turn to going even further round the bend.  This will involve building more baseboards and the viaduct construction which should be challenging.  But, there is an elephant in the room...

 

 

...namely, the existing earlier layout, Hawthorn Town shown on the left of the picture.  It will be taken down to make way for the new baseboards.  Apologies for all the stuff under and on the boards - must have a tidy up sometime.

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Jock67B]

Sorry Brian,

Missed out yesterday! I must apologise for, thinking back, you had mentioned canopies before, and for some reason my addled brain translated that to 'overall rooves'! That's probably why I originally mentioned the first picture in Jason's Bacup thread - his canopies and building method are excellent! Sorry to cause confusion - this ageing process is a bl**dy nuisance at times. Keep up the good work,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Brian D]

Sorry Brian,

Missed out yesterday! I must apologise for, thinking back, you had mentioned canopies before, and for some reason my addled brain translated that to 'overall rooves'! That's probably why I originally mentioned the first picture in Jason's Bacup thread - his canopies and building method are excellent! Sorry to cause confusion - this ageing process is a bl**dy nuisance at times. Keep up the good work,

Kind regards,

Jock.

Hi Jock,

No problem - we're all in the same boat it seems (see my next post).

Regards,

Brian.

[Brian D]

Well, progress has taken a bit of a knock due to extreme stupidity of the builder!

Having laid and ballasted the inner curve on Sunday, I entered the shed on Monday morning and duly hoovered up (stocking up the spout) the excess ballast, removed the adjacent masking tape, cleaned the rail heads and gave the area a final hoover.  I then stepped back to admire my handiwork and was heard to mutter "oh bother" or words to that effect.  All the holes for the wire droppers had been drilled but not the 10mm hole for the point motor operating rod!  "Oh silly me!"  (or words to that effect again) I said.

Anway, attempts to resolve the problem by drilling from beneath predicably ended in tears - the drill burst upwards unexpectedly (alright, I c*cked up again compounding the problem) lifting some of the track, the point itself and about 8 inches of the curve.  Unfortunately, the over centre spring on the point had been disturbed terminally and some of the sleepers on the plain curved track came up with the track but others remained glued to the baseboard.

After much bad language and some contemplation, I decided to cut the plain curved track back beyond the point of damage with the track cutters and effect repairs.  Another short piece of track was carefully cut to length, droppers soldered on and spray painted yesterday.  Fortunately I had some spare Peco over centre springs in stock and the point was repaired this morning.  The ballast was scraped off the track bed with a scrapper and the area of the baseboard under the damaged track tidied up and hoovered.  The point and short curve have now been relaid and ballasted - see below.

 

 

Hopefully now back on track, literally.

 

Every cloud has a silver lining though. Prior to this b*lls up occurring, I had been worrying slightly about putting a a joint in the outer curve at this location - the length of this curve between adjoining points is over 36 inches, the standard Peco track length.  However, having had to do exactly this to repair the inner curve, I have found that, by using the Tracksetta to assist, a fluid curve can be obtained without any short straight bits at the rail joiners.  So alls well that ends well.

 

Regards,

Brian.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Brian D