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Brian D

Deneside - BR North Eastern Region

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On 24/11/2019 at 22:14, AireValley1962 said:

The gates look good, Brian.  Cheers!

 

Thanks William.  I have just drilled some holes in the baseboard so that they can be posed closed...

 

IMG_20191126_173210.jpg.04c5b849a09e1e02a94be9b364f689e7.jpg

 

...or open...

 

IMG_20191126_173243.jpg.55a38e2fe8e898181aeab344bf652a41.jpg

 

...but I have decided to paint them signal red for the benefit of the engine-men, don't want them destroyed by the colliery shunters :)

 

Thanks again for your interest mate.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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24 minutes ago, Brian D said:

 

Thanks William.  I have just drilled some holes in the baseboard so that they can be posed closed...

 

IMG_20191126_173210.jpg.04c5b849a09e1e02a94be9b364f689e7.jpg

 

...or open...

 

IMG_20191126_173243.jpg.55a38e2fe8e898181aeab344bf652a41.jpg

 

...but I have decided to paint them signal red for the benefit of the engine-men, don't want them destroyed by the colliery shunters :)

 

Thanks again for your interest mate.

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

They look a bit posh for a colliery- most of the ones I visited didn't have gates for the trains- and those that did had rusty bent gates where someone had tried to shunt a wagon through without opening them first - the comment at one place being that there wasn't anyone on the (loose) wagon to tell it to stop while he opened the gates....

 

Would these need a gateman/flagman's hut just inside?

 

Just a thought.

 

Les

 

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I seem to recall that Shotton Front St had a couple of flagmen. . . .but there wasn't any gates.

 

The colliery was on the north side of the street, and the shunting yard was  on the south side.

 

 

John

Edited by Two_sugars
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23 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Would these need a gateman/flagman's hut just inside?

 

 

You'd certainly need something - the road traffic would need protection from the railway.  This might be (I am not sure) a private NCB road, but even so there are possibilities for accidents so some form of control - most ususally flagmen to stop the traffic and wave the train across - would be essential.  More problems if it's a public road? 

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On 26/11/2019 at 19:23, Les1952 said:

 

They look a bit posh for a colliery- most of the ones I visited didn't have gates for the trains- and those that did had rusty bent gates where someone had tried to shunt a wagon through without opening them first - the comment at one place being that there wasn't anyone on the (loose) wagon to tell it to stop while he opened the gates....

 

Would these need a gateman/flagman's hut just inside?

 

Just a thought.

 

Les

 

 

On 26/11/2019 at 21:55, Two_sugars said:

I seem to recall that Shotton Front St had a couple of flagmen. . . .but there wasn't any gates.

 

The colliery was on the north side of the street, and the shunting yard was  on the south side.

 

 

John

 

3 hours ago, imt said:

 

You'd certainly need something - the road traffic would need protection from the railway.  This might be (I am not sure) a private NCB road, but even so there are possibilities for accidents so some form of control - most ususally flagmen to stop the traffic and wave the train across - would be essential.  More problems if it's a public road? 

 

Just picked up on these comments chaps. Bit late this evening so I'll respond in more detail tomorrow. 

 

Regards 

Brian 

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I might have mentioned it on this thread before but here goes anyway.  :-)

The NCB line across the A1 at Wide Open I remember having a flag man in the mid to late 60s. What I can’t remember was if there were any gates across the railway (certainly none across the road) and if there were, whether they were ever shut (management visits and Inspections excluded!).

Paul.

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20 hours ago, Brian D said:

 

 

 

Just picked up on these comments chaps. Bit late this evening so I'll respond in more detail tomorrow. 

 

Regards 

Brian 

 

19 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I might have mentioned it on this thread before but here goes anyway.  :-)

The NCB line across the A1 at Wide Open I remember having a flag man in the mid to late 60s. What I can’t remember was if there were any gates across the railway (certainly none across the road) and if there were, whether they were ever shut (management visits and Inspections excluded!).

Paul.

 

My decisions around the wall and the gates mainly relate to my memories of Easington colliery which had a massive wall round it adjacent to the colliery streets, albeit the colliery rail tracks were accessed from BR land and I don't recall any gates there.  However, I have limited scope for modelling said wall other than where it is so gates to fill the gap seemed logical.  Having googled images of "colliery gates" I didn't find much relating to the 50s/60s time period, they were mainly modern-ish images, one of which showed rail tracks buried in tarmac between the gate posts (can't remember where) and a nice picture of a pair of gates with the top rail curved as I have modelled it.  You have to remember that this is a model railway I'm building and not a model of a (particular) railway or place.  I am trying to "place" the layout in the period and location I remember and give as many period and place "nods" as possible.  But it is in effect a freelance layout based on BR (NER) memories.

 

I am torn between providing a flag man or colour lights to control the road traffic, if a flag man then a hut will be provided.  I do have contemporaneous images of both options in the Durham coal field area.  The former option (flag man) is easier to model but the colour light option gives me more switches to pull (or forget to pull, I've lost count of the number of SPADs :))

 

I trust this addresses your comments and concerns, if not please feel free to come back.  Thanks again for your continuing interest in my ramblings.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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On 28/11/2019 at 19:02, Brian D said:

I am torn between providing a flag man or colour lights to control the road traffic, if a flag man then a hut will be provided.

 

IMHO a flagman would be absolutely fine, and quite routine for the period.  If you start putting lights in (apart from operational problems) the question might the arise - why no gates across the road (I.e. isn't it a standard level crossing?).

 

I am presuming a kind of 3 or 4 times an hour frequency - since I think some shuntimng moves will need to come across the road?  This doesn't seem to be calling for anything too complicated.  A colliery policeman with a flag would be fine.  He could walk across from "goods inwards" with a flag as needed.

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5 hours ago, imt said:

 

IMHO a flagman would be absolutely fine, and quite routine for the period.  If you start putting lights in (apart from operational problems) the question might the arise - why no gates across the road (I.e. isn't it a standard level crossing?).

 

I am presuming a kind of 3 or 4 times an hour frequency - since I think some shuntimng moves will need to come across the road?  This doesn't seem to be calling for anything too complicated.  A colliery policeman with a flag would be fine.  He could walk across from "goods inwards" with a flag as needed.

 

Tend to agree so a flagman it will be.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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The gates have been repainted, some signage added to the buildings and more scenics added to cover the bare baseboards around the entrance to the colliery.  The area now looks like this...

 

IMG_20191202_143343.jpg.046ec2f7ff34fb59e2c4a403ef144d4a.jpg

 

IMG_20191202_143457.jpg.907dba392bcfd67a3671342468f1489a.jpg

 

...so coal traffic has resumed.

 

IMG_20191202_181156.jpg.3f552831da9a59eb413e7c2fbad6b537.jpg

 

IMG_20191202_181637.jpg.c4d32ff4fb4cf2e66ca9b92be5191456.jpg

 

There's still some areas in the colliery to receive a bit more scenic treatment, mainly ground scatter.  After that, I feel another video coming on :sungum:

 

Regards,

Brian.

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Looking really good Brian, you must walk into the room and be well chuffed with the results so far.:good:

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Looking good, Brian

 

I was going to suggest a "Look Out For Trains" sign (or regionally similar), for the road users, but when I went looking for an example, I came back with this:

 

'Amazon' at Lowca

 

So I'd say it's just fine as-is.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

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And with the hand point where it is, they must come across the road for some shunt moves.

All looking good.

One thought: in order to comply with the main line railway’s requirement to be fenced, should there be a gate closer to the junction on their side?  (Sufficiently clear to permit shunting.)

Paul.

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16 hours ago, jukebox said:

Looking good, Brian

 

I was going to suggest a "Look Out For Trains" sign (or regionally similar), for the road users, but when I went looking for an example, I came back with this:

 

'Amazon' at Lowca

 

So I'd say it's just fine as-is.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

 

Great example of "man with a flag" Scott - great inspiration.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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7 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

 

One thought: in order to comply with the main line railway’s requirement to be fenced, should there be a gate closer to the junction on their side?  (Sufficiently clear to permit shunting.)

Paul.

 

Good suggestion Paul, I'll look into that.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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On 02/12/2019 at 19:06, Andrew P said:

Looking really good Brian, you must walk into the room and be well chuffed with the results so far.:good:

 

Yes indeed Andy, moderately happy with how it's all turned out.  There are still a few rough edges here and there which I must revisit and the layout runs reliably if I keep the track clean and squirt the occasionally temperamental Seep point motors when they don't switch the frog polarity when they should.  But you can't eliminate "Fat Controller" error when he forgets to set the points or signals correctly :unsure:.  As you are probably aware, the layout is traditional cab control with two controllers.  I am currently trying very hard to control two trains at once without loosing track of what's going on (e.g. simultaneous arrivals and departures) - not easy for this old git.

Thanks again for your kind words Andy.  Good luck with your move down south.

 

Regards,

Brian.

Edited by Brian D
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Brian,

a couple of pictures of men with flags. A J27 at Ryhope Colliery and a Q6 at Brady Square in Washington (note the classic road sign). Not sure about copyright so I will remove if they offend.

1573298016_RY087.jpg.e9fe567d095b50f878a8173d1fd9da90.jpg

 

post-508-0-29856000-1438342669_thumb.jpg.06d98fb911fca840ef1bc6b6c6db4ae5.jpg

keep up the good work.

Regards,

 

Tom

 

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On 03/12/2019 at 01:42, jukebox said:

Looking good, Brian

 

I was going to suggest a "Look Out For Trains" sign (or regionally similar), for the road users, but when I went looking for an example, I came back with this:

 

'Amazon' at Lowca

 

So I'd say it's just fine as-is.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

 

This is a terrific pic Scott.  If only you could reproduce the stuff coming out of the chimney in 4mm scale.

 

On 03/12/2019 at 19:16, tom shaw said:

Brian,

a couple of pictures of men with flags. A J27 at Ryhope Colliery and a Q6 at Brady Square in Washington (note the classic road sign). Not sure about copyright so I will remove if they offend.

1573298016_RY087.jpg.e9fe567d095b50f878a8173d1fd9da90.jpg

 

post-508-0-29856000-1438342669_thumb.jpg.06d98fb911fca840ef1bc6b6c6db4ae5.jpg

keep up the good work.

Regards,

 

Tom

 

 

 

These are terrific too Tom.  They have also inspired me.  I've had this ...

 

IMG_20191204_191347.jpg.39ac1b702b153085944595f3dfef1c63.jpg

 

...stashed away for a while which has the "Crossing - No Gates" sign on it.

 

IMG_20191204_191411.jpg.e91af19a44ba771ef208d5e9825196e7.jpg

 

Thanks again guys for these amazing and very useful pics.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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On 2 December 2019 at 19:01, Brian D said:

 

The gates have been repainted, some signage added to the buildings and more scenics added to cover the bare baseboards around the entrance to the colliery.  The area now looks like this...

 

IMG_20191202_143343.jpg.046ec2f7ff34fb59e2c4a403ef144d4a.jpg

 

IMG_20191202_143457.jpg.907dba392bcfd67a3671342468f1489a.jpg

 

...so coal traffic has resumed.

 

IMG_20191202_181156.jpg.3f552831da9a59eb413e7c2fbad6b537.jpg

 

IMG_20191202_181637.jpg.c4d32ff4fb4cf2e66ca9b92be5191456.jpg

 

There's still some areas in the colliery to receive a bit more scenic treatment, mainly ground scatter.  After that, I feel another video coming on :sungum:

 

Regards,

Brian.

That really looks the business, Brian! Great.

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I have completed the road signs using the vintage road signs sheet.  Firstly, I utilised some 1.2mm diameter plastic rod for the posts which needed to be painted black and white, I used masking tape as below.  Apologies for dodgy camera phone pics.

 

IMG_20191207_131331.jpg.7d19e49b7936c5b8cf47f225c82e65bf.jpg

 

The double sided card shapes were then added to the poles, suitable holes drilled in the scenery and the three signs were planted in them thus, firstly the low bridge sign...

 

IMG_20191207_170556.jpg.1a452d6fc10a51ea7c51a2cce445248b.jpg

 

...and secondly the no gates signs.

 

IMG_20191207_170607.jpg.d49144d5ec12b2109b5367d0c8995255.jpg

 

I also added the clearance sign on the bridge using this...( Bridge Clearances (2).pdf  ), printed 25% size and glued to thin card.

 

IMG_20191207_173702.jpg.acf445d7f04acd6ccea5b4521a04f834.jpg

 

Fortunately, it just fitted between the bridge beam flanges as below.

 

IMG_20191207_174529.jpg.8bc7003da1e5fed0247b365b30f979ce.jpg

 

The bus is a bit "off route" but hey-ho :)

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

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5 hours ago, Brian D said:

 

I have completed the road signs using the vintage road signs sheet.  Firstly, I utilised some 1.2mm diameter plastic rod for the posts which needed to be painted black and white, I used masking tape as below.  Apologies for dodgy camera phone pics.

 

IMG_20191207_131331.jpg.7d19e49b7936c5b8cf47f225c82e65bf.jpg

 

The double sided card shapes were then added to the poles, suitable holes drilled in the scenery and the three signs were planted in them thus, firstly the low bridge sign...

 

IMG_20191207_170556.jpg.1a452d6fc10a51ea7c51a2cce445248b.jpg

 

...and secondly the no gates signs.

 

IMG_20191207_170607.jpg.d49144d5ec12b2109b5367d0c8995255.jpg

 

I also added the clearance sign on the bridge using this...( Bridge Clearances (2).pdf  ), printed 25% size and glued to thin card.

 

IMG_20191207_173702.jpg.acf445d7f04acd6ccea5b4521a04f834.jpg

 

Fortunately, it just fitted between the bridge beam flanges as below.

 

IMG_20191207_174529.jpg.8bc7003da1e5fed0247b365b30f979ce.jpg

 

The bus is a bit "off route" but hey-ho :)

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

Hi Brian 

 

He is a very kind bus driver who has a little boy on board who isn't feeling well, a little travel sick maybe. The driver has asked the other passengers is it OK to take a small detour and drop the little boy and his mum (or should it be mam) off closer to their house, and they all said yes. 

Edited by Clive Mortimore
a missing it
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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Brian 

 

He is a very kind bus driver who has a little boy on board who isn't feeling well, a little travel sick maybe. The driver has asked the other passengers is OK to take a small detour and drop the little boy and his mum (or should it be mam) off closer to their house, and they all said yes. 

 

"Why aye man" said all the passengers :)

Great Post Clive. 

Regards, 

Brian. 

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The other low bridge has also received appropriate signage.

 

IMG_20191209_181105.jpg.c63185e32b54d3107fb22b236a34f8e3.jpg

 

IMG_20191209_180903.jpg.72b47d031778469cb6c00243412e9392.jpg

 

I probably now need to get back to finishing off the layout signalling.

 

Regards,

Brian.

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