Wakefield West

[Southernboy]

As already mentioned, the third picture in particular caused me to double-check whether it was real or not.

 

You clearly have a good observational eye and the ability to reproduce colour / texture / atmosphere very well.

 

The layout plan I also like: Plenty of track, but laid out in a way that avoids that 'crammed-in' feel.

 

A layout to follow

[Brian D]

Hi Tony,

There's a lot more space in Australia than in the UK I guess

Regards,

Brian.

[great northern]

Hi Tony,

 

I just caught up on this. Absolutely no need to apologise for modelling of this quality. Mr Shakespeare would be proud of you. I'll be back later, but other duties call at present.

[trw1089]

Thanks Gilbert

 

You have no idea how much that post means to me!

 

Cheers

Tony

[trw1089]

Hi all

Well I've been trying to finish off some more scenery around the Arnthorpe area and have just about got there I think, except for the detailing.

The whole area looks like this at the moment:



But getting a little closer, with a rather unflattering photograph of my favourite A4 (with, I think, the wrong shed code for the time, but that is soon to be rectified):



and a different train in about the same spot, with the signalman's car in the background:


Looking the other way, sorry about the mess in the background, but it has given me some ideas for scenery around there to create a more industrial feel:


passing the Signalbox carpark:


and round the final curve leaving Arnthorpe, with a gentleman hard at work at the coal merchants, sweeping up the mess:


Next bit to tackle, the main station at Wakefield Westgate.

Cheers
Tony

[nest]

I like this a lot. Very good work indeed.

 

Better start following...

 

Nestor

[great northern]

Great stuff, Tony, full of atmosphere. The third photo in particular made me jump a bit. The way you have blended the scenery into the backscene is top class. As to No12, she was always a Haymarket engine right through from new until 1963. That station building will be a good challenge. I'm sure Peter Leyland would give you some help on how to tackle it if you ask him.

[trw1089]

Thanks Nestor and Gilbert

 

I've been meaning to check on No.12's allocations in the very early 50s, as it took me long enough to figure out she needed the curly 6 while in BR blue, so now I know it was a Haymarket engine, chances are she didn't get through Wakefield very often then (if at all?).  I have been looking over Gravy Train's signal box thread of late for ideas, I would certainly value his help on a lot of the architectural protuberances that were on Westgate, I haven't quite figured out how I am going to tackle them just yet.

 

Cheers

Tony

[great northern]

Thanks Nestor and Gilbert

 

I've been meaning to check on No.12's allocations in the very early 50s, as it took me long enough to figure out she needed the curly 6 while in BR blue, so now I know it was a Haymarket engine, chances are she didn't get through Wakefield very often then (if at all?).  I have been looking over Gravy Train's signal box thread of late for ideas, I would certainly value his help on a lot of the architectural protuberances that were on Westgate, I haven't quite figured out how I am going to tackle them just yet.

 

Cheers

Tony

 Number 12 would only have been seen at Wakefield on running in turns from Doncaster I would say, but there are many photos of immaculate ex works Pacifics on four coach Doncaster- Leeds stopping trains, so I'm sure you could justify her presence in that way. If you want to be "right", I think it is important not to overdo this sort of thing though, as it was very rare indeed to see one Scottish Pacific in a day of spotting, let alone more. I have one ex works Haymarket A3, as I saw 60090 running trials through Retford in August 1958, and there is a photo of her on New England shed that same month, but I am resisting, so far, the temptation to add any more exotic foreigners, save of course for Number 12, which was a regular on the Elizabethan that month. Of course if you couldn't give a **** about what is supposedly right, none of the above applies! According to Yeadon, she had a general overhaul in August 1949, when the blue livery was applied, and a heavy intermediate in February 1951. Those are the only two recorded visits to Doncaster while in BR blue, so all you need to do is choose a nice summer day in August, or a miserable one in February. and of course the "right" livery for the coaches behind her, and the "right" coaches- no Mk1's in 1949.   The period you have chosen is even more of a minefield than most, if you allow it to be.

 

It was those "protuberances" I was thinking of when I suggested you contact Gravy Train. He is a lovely guy, and I know he would be happy to help.

[trw1089]

Much appreciated Gilbert.

 

I also know the J11 was probably very rare too, though I suspect an occasional example may have escaped up from Sheffield or Immingham. I use a book on Wakefield by my friend John Farline who has been very helpful so far and sends me some excellent photos and anecdotes which have been invaluable and gives me a reasonable choice of motive power with photographic evidence. O4s were regular visitors, and even a D11/1 was an occasional escapee from Sheffield on the S&K lines, so hopefully a J11 may have also been up that way.

 

As for coaching stock, well I'm only just starting into that minefield!

 

Cheers

Tony

Edited October 8, 2014 by trw1089

[great northern]

The J11? That was the subject of several discussions between myself and Dave Shakespeare. I tried to get him to buy one, but he had a temporary reversion to tightwad mode, and said they would not have got to Wakefield. There were some at Barnsley and Mexborough, and a few at Frodingham, so I wouldn't be surprised if they got there. Certainly Frodingham 04's did.

[trw1089]

From the pics I have, there seemed to be quite a few O4 visits, but then you get to wondering whether the pics were taken because they were unusual visitors. B1s, J27s?, J39s, WDs, K3s, Black 5s, Q6s and the occasional V2 seemed to be the mainstay of freights, with C14s, Stanier and Fairburn tanks, N1s and even a WD as station pilots. Bradford portions mostly seemed to be B1s and J39s, with a K3 and Black 5 occasionally, until they reverted to the Stanier and Fairburn tanks in later years. I have representatives of most of these, but am thinking of kit building an N1 and even scratchbuilding a C14 as I would like them to take turns on pilot duties. While the big power is well documented (even have a pic of 60100 at Wakey), it's the small steam I prefer but harder to come by evidence of them. The J11 is such a sweet runner though, I'm sort of glad Dave didn't buy one otherwise I would have even more to carry back to the Antipodes when I visit Blighty next month!

[TerryD1471]

Hi Tony

 

This is really lovely work. I can only echo the plaudits of all the previous contributors; they have said just what I would say.

 

I look forward to seeing your next phase and wish you well with your endeavours.

 

Terry

[great northern]

I think you are OK with O4's Tony. One of the books I have refers to at least one daily goods working from Scunthorpe, so Frodingham would most likely have used either an 04 or a WD on those. Your point about photos is a good one though. I also supect that cameras were pointed at the unusual, rather than that which was seen every day. The same applies to the entries in Railway Observer and Trains Illustrated of the time - the most useful, but also the most rare, are the chronicles of day to day happenings, while the out of course things got the limelight.

 

I'd be a bit surprised if J27's or Q6's were regular visitors, given that the nearest shed with Q6's would be Selby, and the nearest J27's would be at York. I have the Express Publishing book on Leeds Central workings in 1957, though by that time DMU's had taken over most of the local passener workings, but what stands out is the very large number of B1's in use, both on passenger and parcels workings. I'd much prefer your period, as the DMU's swept away all the vintage tank engines that typified the West Riding.  N1's are essential for you, plus J6's, as well as J39's. The Atlantic tanks C12, C13 and C14 were mainly for the Leeds- Castleford workings, but no doubt Wakefield saw them too.

[L&Y]

Just discovered this. Or rather RM web pointed me to it. Have to say it looks absolutely amazing. Sometimes take the Wakefield route to Leeds just for the scenery. Its only about ten minutes longer. Cracking photographs. Keep them coming. 

[trw1089]

Thanks L&Y

 

I am actually visiting the area next month while in Blighty for a week, so will be taking plenty more pics of the station remnants and surrounds.  What I really would like to do though is capture more of the "essence" of that area as I don't think anything that I have done so far particularly hints at the location except perhaps the occasional item of rollingstock.

 

From what Gilbert says and from the photos I have, I think throwing in more B1s, a J6 or two plus an N1 would help cement the location from a motive power point of view, but when looking at the surrounds, the red/blue brick everywhere doesn't say West Riding like the stonework on Tetleys Mills for example, or the obligatory mill.  I think that's what sets work like Dave's apart, he could create that essence/atmosphere as it was coming from his mind's eye.  For me, not being a native and living so far away, I have to rely on pics, but even so, it is hard picking out what was that Wakefield Westgate "essence".  Yes, the 99 arches (if I could model them), or the view to the power station might do it, but what about general scenery.  At first I thought it was the whitish ballast, but that seemed not to be the case in the period I am modelling from the colour photos I have, though perhaps that is just the steam era general muckiness.

 

I'd be keen to hear what others think would say "Wakefield" if you were looking at a layout pic.

 

Cheers

Tony

[d winpenny]

That's the thing about wakefield I doesn't scream West Yorkshire with all the red brick work like for example batley or dewsbury The bridge on the way in to wakefield over west gate road always the thing I remember but part from that I can't think of anything that jumps out

 

David

Edited October 20, 2014 by d winpenny

[trw1089]

Thanks David

 

Those were my thoughts too. I do have a few ideas though, especially with regards to the station area. From one of the photos I have, of Ocean Swell departing Westgate, there was a winding wheel from a local colliery in the coach yard at the Leeds end which said "Welcome to Wakefield" on it. I suppose that will give just a little hint at the locality!

 

Cheers

Tony

[jamie92208]

Hi Tony,

 

John Farline has mentioned your project at the Wakefield Club but I've only just discovered this thread.  Last night at the clubrooms we had a fabulous slide show, by Roger Hepworth, that took us from Ossett to Westgate and then down to Kirkagate, Sandal and Walton in the late 50's and erly 60's.  I had heard about the portion working but never seen pictures of the process, many taken from on the train.  It included a lovely set of pictures of a snowplough fitted Austerity 2-8-0 arriving to act as station pilot and then towing the Bradford portion back into the sidings.   The running in turns on Leeds Doncaster stoppers featured extensively and produced all sorts of power.  there was even a B17 that got there somehow.  

 

The model looks great and I look forward to seeing progress.  I also use a Modratec lever frame for Lancaster though it was built for Long Preston and was then relocked with Harold's assistance for Lancaster.

 

Jamie

Edited October 21, 2014 by jamie92208

[trw1089]

Hi Jamie

 

I must admit to being very jealous of your meeting, Roger has been very kind to send me a few photos of the operation which he has given me permission to use and reproduce.  His tales on http://www.forgottenrelics.co.uk/reminiscences, especially the one on the London Train, are excellent descriptions of what things used to be like.  

 

Those running in turns sound like a great excuse to run just about anything, but there is a pic of a B17, Somerlton Hall I think, on the front of a Leeds Express in John's book which the caption suggests was put on in place of a failed pacific, though the running in turn sounds plausible too.

 

Glad to hear that you are running a Modratec frame, they are very good I reckon and Harold has been very helpful with getting mine sorted.  I must pay more attention to your layout thread as I had been watching it but must have missed the info on using the lever frame.

 

I will be in Wakefield at the middle of next month so am hoping to catch up with John and his wife, and hopefully will get a bit more time to take some photos around Wakey as well, including your clubrooms, as I will have to build a model of it!

 

Cheers
Tony

Edited October 23, 2014 by trw1089

[trw1089]

Following on from the previous post, here are a few of Roger Hepworth's pics which he has given me permission to use.  These illustrate the passenger train shunting of portions quite well.  For a more in depth discussion of it, John Farline has produced an article "Shunting with a Difference" in the December 2013 Railway Modeller which is very good reading.  Please note these pics are copyright to Roger Hepworth, so please don't pass them on from here.

 

 

First the Bradford portion arrives at Westgate behind Black 5 44693.  Note the B1 in the distance ready to pull the portion back into the coach sidings.

 

 

Station pilots were of many types, including even a WD 2-8-0 as seen in this shot

 

 

Next the main train arrives behind the obligatory A1, regular performer 60130, probably still of Copley Hill shed, though it was to be transferred to Ardsley very shortly 

 

 

and finally the Bradford portion is attached to the express ready for the passengers to continue on their way to London.

 

 

These are just a few of the pics I have managed to dig up of Westgate, they all show interesting tit bits that I am trying to assemble into a credible example of the station, not completely faithful in layout, but hopefully faithful in operation and looks.

 

Cheers

Tony

[nickwood]

Hi Tony

 

I've just found your thread after recognising your user name back from another forum that you used to use. The layout is looking great and you've done so much work in such a relatively short space of time. I love the little touches that you've included like the shovel in the coal heap and the last photo on post 30 is superb. Keep it up mate.

[lmsforever]

You have created a magnificent layout with attention to detail and excellent rolling stock ,the track also looks good I shall be following your layout and look forward to further news well done.

[trw1089]

Thanks Nick

 

Yes I've still been progressing and have really enjoyed the scenic side of things.  Still, I have much more ahead of me.  I have been following your progress on Much Murkle, one of my all time favourite layouts, even if it is a GWR one!

 

Thanks also lmsforever, I appreciate those sentiments.  I've been a railway modeller for the last 30 years or so, this being my 4th layout, but the only one I have done properly, not cutting corners like I had to do on my previous ones (mostly due to financial limitations when I was younger, compared to the time limitations nowadays).

 

Cheers

Tony

[5050]

Hi Tony, visiting here from the Scratchbuilding thread, thanks for the link. So it's you that John F. has been assisting!  I was beginning to wonder if it might be the case. He has mentioned a layout in Australia and that you are visiting soon.  Pity the visit doesn't coincide with the exhibition.  Perhaps sometime in the future eh?

 

The backscenes definitely have a look of Woolley Edge about them which is why I thought they looked familiar.  I think the whole layout is to an excellent standard.  I look forward to seeing it develop.

 

Considering the high standard of modelling, perhaps you could try a Western Region one next

 

Or is that going a bit to far.......................................

 

It's not that I'm particularly biased or anything towards the products of Swindon.....