LMS? Coach Identity

[ianwales]

Hi all

 

A while ago I purchased these 2 7mm coaches ready built, although they were advertised as brass I think they are pressed aluminium, but, I am struggling to find out what the protoypes are. If someone can identify if they are actuall exLMS or one of the constituents I would be grateful, if they turn out to be freelance or another company then they are to be sold.

 

Both are in plain unlined maroon, the suburban brake 3rd is numbered M21260M.

 

 

 

while the suburban Composite is numbered M16328M

 

 

 

Many thanks

Ian

[brossard]

These look strange to me Ian.  The first thing that strikes me is the door windows are not high enough and the door ventilators sit too low.

 

I checked Essery & Jenkinson and couldn't find the numbers you quoted.  Do the coaches scale to 57'?  There was stock of 51' and 54'.

 

Nevertheless, I can't find a configuration sketch that matches. 

 

For the brake, the nearest I can get is a 5 compartment D1685/1737.  However, there is a lav  between the second and third compartments in from the non brake end, which I don't see on yours (should be a frosted window on one side and normal window on the corridor side (for access from comp'ts 2 and 3 - all others have to cross their legs)).  Oddly enough, the book doesn't list numbers for these diagrams although there is an example of a D1685 pictured with number 18932.

 

For the composite, there are no configurations with two central 1st class compartments.  Some had 3 compartments in the middle (D1767, 1743 and others).  The last coach built to D1767 (1926/27) was 16325 and the first built to D1734 (1930) was 16331.  I don't see anything in between.

 

Perhaps, my book is not as comprehensive as we are led to believe or maybe I just missed it.  Let's see what others think.

 

John

[ianwales]

Hi John

 

They measure 398mm which scales out at 56.85ft

 

Ian

[brossard]

That's one question answered then.  I assumed they were ex LMS.  The underframes are typical LMS, standard with minor differences from 1923 to 1947.

 

I just had a leaf through Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 2, LMS and Constituents by Jenkinson.  I didn`t find anything in the constituents that resemble yours.  Of course, my impression is that most coaches built prior to 1923 were wooden bodied and panelled.  Even LMS period I coaches were wooden bodied and panelled.  Steel bodies came in with Period II and III, so I`m thinking yours are intended to represent these latter designs.

 

John

[Barry O]

Could these be a Westdale GWR "shortie" B set?

 

Baz

[billbedford]

Your 'composite' is a first - eight compartments equally spaced.