Clearwater Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hopefully it runs and pulls as good as it looks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 That's going to require a design solution for an R2 capable model, and I look forward to seeing it. This feature alone will mark a significant advance in realism for RTR OO. (Hoping that once one manufacturer shows that it can be done for a reliable OO RTR result, the others will follow.) The problem to be solved is that with the model on R2, the leading bogie wheel on the outside rail of the curve is right on the centre line of the model. Thus inescapably there has to be an arch beneath the model from side to side for clearance of this wheelset, and with that comes the unprototypical gap. A light blocker on the bogie frame or pivot seems the obvious solution: but it hasn't been applied on any OO model I am aware of. The mount of the NEM coupler pocket on the bogie pivot of the Bachmann A1 and A2 comes closest in concept, and can be user modified to this purpose. You also need a fair degree of up and down play too on the bogie too. Else a pretty flat layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 https://www.facebook.com/hattonsmodelcentre/photos/a.762849267068841.1073741830.217917844895322/938742436146189/?type=1&theater I got snapped sitting down with Dave Mylett at Hattons looking at the King CADs; we went into an awful lot of detail, especially on variations between specific models and the full story and pics will be in August BRM (on sale from 9th July) and in the digital edition and on here from Friday 3rd July. I am genuinely excited by what I've seen and I have to say I have never seen anything like it at this stage of development; it's genuinely unprecedented to see so much detail and it looks to be pushing the boundaries of what components can be produced and fitted. This product could be in a different league from what has gone before and it's evident that everyone is passionate about the detail so it's going to be very exciting to see the next stages in the process. For now here's a little taster of an extract from one of the images. lower front Extract.jpg What is amazing is the number of small parts with different colours. Even small pipe connectors are different colours to the pipes, the bogie springs are separate colours too. Normally different colours indicate different parts to assemble unless skins are applied, so to my mind this fully blown 3D cad of the real loco which has been/will be worked back to a scale model. Those small pipes - which are hair thickness - are going to be a real first if fully moulded/fabricated and fitted separately. Other manufacturers tend to leave such things off or mould them on as vague low relief representations on a bigger part. I hope they don't end up as "to be fitted by the customer"! ;-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 With all this detail, I hope suitable 'Yodel Proof' packaging is planned - otherwise there are going to be a lot of small parts floating about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 You also need a fair degree of up and down play too on the bogie too. Else a pretty flat layout. Although my Dapol Western has been instrumental in driving my 'track improvement programme' so I should be ready for a 'King'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing how they solve the bogie gap issue. If it's successful, I believe it will be a turning point in OO gauge that hopefully the others follow suit with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2015 Looking forward to Friday's news about the King. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted July 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2015 A lot will also depend on the skill of the toolmaker in converting the CAD images into cut metal. It certainly looks good, but I too would be serious put off buying if I had to fit some of the small detail myself. In some cases a representation is actually better than the bits being able to fall off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 https://www.facebook.com/hattonsmodelcentre/photos/a.762849267068841.1073741830.217917844895322/938742436146189/?type=1&theater I got snapped sitting down with Dave Mylett at Hattons looking at the King CADs; we went into an awful lot of detail, especially on variations between specific models and the full story and pics will be in August BRM (on sale from 9th July) and in the digital edition and on here from Friday 3rd July. I am genuinely excited by what I've seen and I have to say I have never seen anything like it at this stage of development; it's genuinely unprecedented to see so much detail and it looks to be pushing the boundaries of what components can be produced and fitted. This product could be in a different league from what has gone before and it's evident that everyone is passionate about the detail so it's going to be very exciting to see the next stages in the process. For now here's a little taster of an extract from one of the images. lower front Extract.jpg Wow!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Last week, in preparing a news report for BRM, I had the opportunity to take a look at much of the close-up design detail of Hatton’s King with Dave Mylett. As we get absorbed in the finer points it’s evident Dave, who is leading the product’s development, is a modeller through and through, not just an accomplished railway modeller but a military modeller too and there are many fine examples of his modelling workmanship in the cabinets at the Smithdown Road shop. Dave has spent countless hours poring over the CAD files and accompanying reference images and drawings, both historical and photographs taken by Hattons. Every little detail has been captured in pictures and the accompanying pictures with this piece show the lengths the team working on the project have gone to. Like many I have now seen several projects now at this stage in their development and I feel this level of detail is totally unprecedented in the UK RTR marketplace, maybe the fact that there are two competing products likely to be released relatively close to each other has sharpened the focus on making this project one that stands out from others. I’m sure there will be challenges in tooling and producing this level of detail but it certainly looks a detailed point to start from. Looking at it from a value for money perspective in comparison to other models we have seen over the last year or two and the detail they’ve included the £169 price tag of the DCC ready version looks good; Hatton’s Managing Director, Richard Davies, is demonstrably keen to ensure there is value for money for the customer. Yes the lamp will be included! RMweb readers having seen the image released a couple of weeks ago showing the smokebox interior and the separately released images of the 14xx CAD and its smokebox door may have joined the dots to think that the King’s smokebox door would include some of the same details would be right. There are four smokebox door versions, GWR with and without step and BR versions with the smokebox door number mounted on brackets both with step (as per 6023 as preserved) and without. It’s important to mention that in the images you will see different detail parts in differentiating colours, every part which is a different colour from an adjoining one will be separately tooled and assembled and there’s nowhere more impressive than the fittings over the running plate with their cables and pipes. In the image above we can see through (having removed the angled steam pipe in CAD) to the inside motion representation. Moving down to look at the cylinders its evident that the bulk of the King’s large outside cylinders has been accurately captured. For use on sharper layout curves the rear of the cylinder casing is cut away but a customer fit part to give a complete representation of the cylinder casing is provided for those running on prototypical curves or using the model as a static display. One of the innovative features of this model not seen on any comparative model to date is the lack of daylight visible above the front bogie, something especially evident when looking at the model at eye level. Hopefully this image shows how this has been achieved; the outer edge of the loco’s frame smoothly curves in over the bogie and then recesses inwards to a centre divider (much narrower than on the real thing but this is necessary due to operational clearances required for a model. Having compared this section to images of the loco photographed it is a great representation and should make a substantial difference to the appearance of the model above and other mainline class we’ve seen to date. I mentioned the outside steam pipes a little earlier, there are two alternatives being tooled here, the one part original GWR pipe and the later version including the joint. Staying above the bogie Hatton’s have exactly captured the appearance of the void through the frames for access to the inside cylinders, the composite image below shows the appearance of the hole and the representations on the cylinders. I didn’t capture a screenshot of the front bufferbeam but it even captures the slight recess into the bufferbeam which the rear half of the upright for the vac pipe sat into, it’s probably only half a millimetre of a recess but it demonstrates the lengths the team are going to. The tooling will include four chimneys for use on the respective models, single and double in both original and preserved cut-down form. Another area of substantial difference between original and preserved form is the cab height, reduced for compliance with modern criteria giving a full height cab as built and a preserved form. In fact it’s necessary to create three different cabs, as built with no vents, the later version with vents and the cut-down preserved version. The profile of the original cab roof (with vents) is evident in this image looking over the model’s tender. It’s a substantial difference between the variants but it seems to be well catered for. The image above shows tender fitting details including the tool box found on some locos as a separate part. A cross-section through the tender shows the positioning of the 8-pin decoder socket and the amount of space available for fitting a larger speaker, customers will be able to purchase sound-fitted models with Olivia’s Trains sound projects. A similar cross-section through the loco itself shows the motor position, the gears connected to all of the drive wheels and the volume of the weight which will be inside the body which should lead to a substantial weight for good performance. There will be two buffer casing options, straight and tapered accommodating detail variations between class members. We can’t quite see the form of the leaf springs for each of the driving axles but when the CAD is slightly revised from the ones seen it will have 32 leaves for the leading axle and 16 for the centre and trailing axle; attention to detail! We’ve seen this CAD image of the cab interior before but I can now note that further exploration is being taken to see if the thickness of the window glazing can be reduced. Once again from the different colours we can see which parts are separately tooled and differences between locos will be catered for in terms of lubricator dials for BR versions and the inclusion of TPWS equipment for preserved examples. Looking at the outside rodding we can see the fluting and the oiling points but what we can’t see is any clumsy screwheads, hopefully this can be seen through to the finished model. Details recorded in this images may be subject to change or amendment before production. At the start of this post I used the word ‘unprecedented’ hopefully the subsequent images and notes qualify the usage of the word; it looks to be an exceptional project. Final revisions are being made to the CAD, engineering and running samples will follow in due course and the team are still pressing ahead for deliveries very early in the New Year if not before. The full list of items available to order can be found at http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=dj%20models%20king Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2015 That is an incredible amount of detail. I love the way they have solved the bogie gap issue. Will be very interesting to see how it performs on layouts. Very excited by this model now. Very happy to see that 6023/6024 will have variations in cab and funnel height for preserved form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 4069 Posted July 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2015 Very impressive indeed- but surely the smokebox door 'GWR without step' should also be without lamp bracket? The reason for providing the step on the door was for access to the top lamp bracket after it was moved from the top of the smokebox, from 1932 onwards. It would be a pity if this model fell into the same error as Hornby's 4073 in this respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Very impressive indeed- but surely the smokebox door 'GWR without step' should also be without lamp bracket? The reason for providing the step on the door was for access to the top lamp bracket after it was moved from the top of the smokebox, from 1932 onwards. It would be a pity if this model fell into the same error as Hornby's 4073 in this respect. Hi, Quite right, and since Andy's meeting, the requirement has been altered for 6 different smokebox doors (different in furniture configuration). Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I already can't afford several knew models that I've put my name down for but after seeing those there is absolutely no question that I have to have one. I don't think my wallet will survive to the end of the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 That is a crazy amount of detail..... a little too much for my liking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 . So who will now provide scale ash for the inside of smoke boxes, or are we all expected to get our scale lumps of coal, burn them and grind them up ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrySVR Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stunning glad I pre ordered mine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Stunning detail Dave, but I have to ask a daft question. As you say, 100% spares availability on release - does this mean that I will be able to purchase a full height blue cab, brass bits and chimney as a view to being able to swap the parts around on my 6023 to represent her both in her current condition and as she was when running in on the GC without damaging paintwork or having to mess about with heavy gluing on the chimney and other bits? Same for 6024 but evidently in green with double chimney. Also, will the smokebox interior tooling accommodate both single and double blast pipe arrangements? Cheers, 60800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Looks great! Presume the Swindon KGV will be from same toolings! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted July 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2015 Simply put.Mouthwatering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted July 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2015 Looks great! Presume the Swindon KGV will be from same toolings! Yes Swindons KGV is from the DJ Models release. The Locomotion Models KGV is from Hornby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGV Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think that Hattons/DJM are going to sell a shed-load of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I don't model the GWR or BR(W) but that Cad work is so tempting.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hopefully the King will be good experience to execute a Duchess next (PLEASE!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Setting higher standards - thats an understatement Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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